BARASSI LiNE

[Garlic muncher]

I think that's right, at one point, Merimbula had two teams in the Sapphire Coast league, and Pambula had a team, despite being a small town only 6 clicks down the road or something. Traditionally, Bega and Eden were relatively weak, but still fielded teams.

That's about right, although Bega has only fielded teams for the last couple of years, being inland it missed the bulk of sea and tree changers moving from the South and Canberra.

I know this year Moruya has juniors and maybe a reserves team in, that another town that traditionally was very weak for Aussie Rules.

 

[Garlic muncher]

The local RL comp fields basically the same towns as the Sapphire league although the comp is much more geographically wider as it also includes Cooma and Batemans Bay, the Sapphire AFL league is just basically up and down the coast, starts at Eden and stops at Narooma.

Batemans Bay because it was such a strong club in the Sapphire league and Cooma both play in Canberra AFL.

Interestingly while Batemans Bay played in the Sapphire league to the South it's juniors played in a comp further north called the South Coast league with towns such as Ulladulla, Nowra etc and continue to this day.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Rugby in general has a foothold in Perth. You had a Super Rugby franchise 5 or so years before Melbourne

That's partly because in 2004 they thought the Melbourne market was overcrowded (with AFL teams). Melbourne Victory then came along and blew that theory out of the water.

 

[RUNVS]

That's partly because in 2004 they thought the Melbourne market was overcrowded (with AFL teams). Melbourne Victory then came along and blew that theory out of the water.

Melbourne Victory play in the AFL offseason. Super Rugby don't have that luxury.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Melbourne Victory play in the AFL offseason. Super Rugby don't have that luxury.

Back then the Super Rugby season was over before the end of May.

 

[thegreig]

Super Rugby had the potential to be huge. In the late 90's and early 00's the Wallabies were on fire and Rugby League was in shambles, Rugby Union in general really could have capitalised on the situation

 

[Seedsfan]

Super Rugby had the potential to be huge. In the late 90's and early 00's the Wallabies were on fire and Rugby League was in shambles, Rugby Union in general really could have capitalised on the situation

The people running the game are lazy

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Super Rugby had the potential to be huge. In the late 90's and early 00's the Wallabies were on fire and Rugby League was in shambles, Rugby Union in general really could have capitalised on the situation

Don't know it would've been huge (the A-League certainly isn't) but they really should have timed the Super Rugby expansion in Perth and Melbourne to take advantage of the home 2003 World Cup. They wasted a good number of years there. Meanwhile the Wallabies got shit, the Socceroos got pretty good, and everyone knows the rest.

Rugby union in Australia is run by rich toffs who care much more about what they like than the general public so they probably would have ****ed it up anyway.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Super Rugby had the potential to be huge. In the late 90's and early 00's the Wallabies were on fire and Rugby League was in shambles, Rugby Union in general really could have capitalised on the situation

yer na, Rugby in this country and in particular NSW/QLD is representative of one demographic only and that is private schools, it actually cuts through better in non RL states than RL does.

As long as RL exists RU will never be big or cut through a range of demographics in this country.

RU has crossed the Barassi line far better than RL has, but to be fair this has always been the case, it is not a recent thing.

 

[Garlic muncher]

As i mentioned before, the Barassi line is not where it is really happening, the Barassi line really has not changed much in 100 years, it runs through areas that are not highly populated, in fact it runs through many areas where the population has been shrinking or at the very least areas where farms are bigger, less people work, families are smaller and people head to the cities.

Forget the couch potatoes and Tv ratings on friday night, the real work is at grass roots level and yes i was bored for about 20 minutes today and cast my eye over some GWS junior team AFL stats.

2013 - 71 junior teams
2014 - 95 junior teams
2015 - 86 junior teams
2016 - 115 junior teams

As expected the real growth is in the under 9's and 10's, but that team stat (2016) is also without the girls teams included, give this league 5 to 10 years and it may rival the Sydney Harbour juniors league which has more around 400 teams.

Normally in Sydney it is 3 steps forward and 2 steps back or in many cases the reverse, but this appears to be a bit of good news.

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/comp_info.cgi?c=1-4018-0-407658-0&a=FIXTURE

 

[harmesy 37]

As i mentioned before, the Barassi line is not where it is really happening, the Barassi line really has not changed much in 100 years, it runs through areas that are not highly populated, in fact it runs through many areas where the population has been shrinking or at the very least areas where farms are bigger, less people work, families are smaller and people head to the cities.

Forget the couch potatoes and Tv ratings on friday night, the real work is at grass roots level and yes i was bored for about 20 minutes today and cast my eye over some GWS junior team AFL stats.

2013 - 71 junior teams
2014 - 95 junior teams
2015 - 86 junior teams
2016 - 115 junior teams

As expected the real growth is in the under 9's and 10's, but that team stat (2016) is also without the girls teams included, give this league 5 to 10 years and it may rival the Sydney Harbour juniors league which has more around 400 teams.

Normally in Sydney it is 3 steps forward and 2 steps back or in many cases the reverse, but this appears to be a bit of good news.

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/comp_info.cgi?c=1-4018-0-407658-0&a=FIXTURE

I agree with most of your points...but I disagree slightly with you in regards to the "Barassi Line" not changing.
50-100 years ago there weren't teams in Yass, Cootamundra, Cooma etc and football has consolidated itself on the South Coast as well. 50-100 there was no football on the South Coast.The Wollongong League also, for example, (South Coast League) is pretty extensive considering the negative media perception & indoctrination people receive to hate the Australian code.

Temora is also a bona fide footy town even though league is still big there and probably slightly bigger...

but I agree with your point that population areas in southern NSW have decreased, and the real growth in grassroots have to come in Sydney.

Football is a fun game to play. It is better than soccer, (in my opinion- others may prefer soccer) which is just kicking a ball along the ground. In footy you get marks, kicks, handballs, tackles etc, and it is better to play than league- which is just tackling and not much else...so it makes sense that it will be popular to play.

I read something on Jesaulenko the other day where he said he enjoyed marking more than kicking goals. I agree with that point. There is something really exhilarating about being in a pack and plucking that ball out of the air. Footy is the only sport where that is done in a proper sense.

 

[Gigantor]

I agree with most of your points...but I disagree slightly with you in regards to the "Barassi Line" not changing.
50-100 years ago there weren't teams in Yass, Cootamundra, Cooma etc and football has consolidated itself on the South Coast as well. 50-100 there was no football on the South Coast.The Wollongong League also, for example, (South Coast League) is pretty extensive considering the negative media perception & indoctrination people receive to hate the Australian code.

Temora is also a bona fide footy town even though league is still big there and probably slightly bigger...

but I agree with your point that population areas in southern NSW have decreased, and the real growth in grassroots have to come in Sydney.

Football is a fun game to play. It is better than soccer, (in my opinion- others may prefer soccer) which is just kicking a ball along the ground. In footy you get marks, kicks, handballs, tackles etc, and it is better to play than league- which is just tackling and not much else...so it makes sense that it will be popular to play.

I read something on Jesaulenko the other day where he said he enjoyed marking more than kicking goals. I agree with that point. There is something really exhilarating about being in a pack and plucking that ball out of the air. Footy is the only sport where that is done in a proper sense.

I used to love kicking goals, but I agree with your sentiments about plucking the footy in a pack (or better still, climbing up someone else's back) - pretty special feeling.

Of course it's not as much fun when it happens in reverse.

 

[Garlic muncher]

I agree with most of your points...but I disagree slightly with you in regards to the "Barassi Line" not changing.
50-100 years ago there weren't teams in Yass, Cootamundra, Cooma etc and football has consolidated itself on the South Coast as well. 50-100 there was no football on the South Coast.The Wollongong League also, for example, (South Coast League) is pretty extensive considering the negative media perception & indoctrination people receive to hate the Australian code.

Temora is also a bona fide footy town even though league is still big there and probably slightly bigger...

but I agree with your point that population areas in southern NSW have decreased, and the real growth in grassroots have to come in Sydney.

Football is a fun game to play. It is better than soccer, (in my opinion- others may prefer soccer) which is just kicking a ball along the ground. In footy you get marks, kicks, handballs, tackles etc, and it is better to play than league- which is just tackling and not much else...so it makes sense that it will be popular to play.

I read something on Jesaulenko the other day where he said he enjoyed marking more than kicking goals. I agree with that point. There is something really exhilarating about being in a pack and plucking that ball out of the air. Footy is the only sport where that is done in a proper sense.

I think the grey area of the line has moved North, but not by a long way, definitely moved North along the South Coast, but around the Riverina and Central West nothing much has changed, in the 1920's there were teams in Gunningbland, Tullamore and Bogans gate ( look them up ) in what is essentially the Central West of NSW, or the Northern Northern Riverina, Condobolin-Milby is in the Northern Riverina FL but at a guess would be farmers and not a lot of townies, Milby is actually not a town but just a paddock.

RL teams seem to based in the major towns around the Riverina whilst many AF teams are also based in the towns, many seem to be based around tiny rural communities, Mangoplah, Ganmain, Grong Grong Matong, Collingullie, Cookardinia etc etc, the reason for that is because of farmers pushing North from Victoria buying land 100 + years ago, whilst the major towns had a continual influx of workers not from Victoria but bank employees, Government workers, Policeman, teachers etc from other parts of NSW.

From memory the story goes that Danihers Grandfather or Great Grandfather with some mates or Brothers rode their push bikes from Kyneton to inspect some property at Ungarie in 1914, in 1914 a farm allotment was 740 acres, now a farm is 10 times that and employs less people.

The Barassi line exists around this area because of land owners pushing West from Sydney, meeting landowners pushing North from the Murray.

Anyway when i played footy and didn't dribble so much shit on the internet i enjoyed taking marks more than kicking goals, yet played with plenty of blokes who just got that look in their eyes around goals and would have pushed their grandmother out of the way to snap one -- but it takes all kinds, every team needs Kevin Bartletts in their team, Dougie barwick also springs to mind as well.

 

[harmesy 37]

I think the grey area of the line has moved North, but not by a long way, definitely moved North along the South Coast, but around the Riverina and Central West nothing much has changed, in the 1920's there were teams in Gunningbland, Tullamore and Bogans gate ( look them up ) in what is essentially the Central West of NSW, or the Northern Northern Riverina, Condobolin-Milby is in the Northern Riverina FL but at a guess would be farmers and not a lot of townies, Milby is actually not a town but just a paddock.

.

That is a great level of knowledge you have here....yes, it is astounding when you see clubs that are basically surrounded by wheat and barley farms such as Collingullie.

However, we have to be careful with the way we categorise people. These people who live in Ungarie, Wagga, Deniliquin, Yass, Cooma are fully bred New South Welshman now. Whether their ancestors came from Kalgoorlie or Upper Yamatack or an English county such as Yorkshire is irrelevant to me. However, I appreciate your understanding of history.

If the game was a weak product anyway, the game wouldn't have survived under the constant pressure of media hacks and the like in NSW who have wanted to destroy Australian football. All of those people in Wagga, Cootamundra etc would have "converted" to the English codes of league and union if it was a weak product.

To me, though, we have to get away from feeding the state divide stuff (eg "ex-Victorian", ex "Western Australian"), as it gives fodder for people who want to hate the AUSTRALIAN game...after all this game was largely invented by a new south wales man..so whether Victorian, NSW, Qld ...it doesn't matter. Every state has a role in the game. They are all playing/involved in the Australian pastime.

 

[Garlic muncher]

That is a great level of knowledge you have here....yes, it is astounding when you see clubs that are basically surrounded by wheat and barley farms such as Collingullie.

However, we have to be careful with the way we categorise people. These people who live in Ungarie, Wagga, Deniliquin, Yass, Cooma are fully bred New South Welshman now. Whether their ancestors came from Kalgoorlie or Upper Yamatack or an English county such as Yorkshire is irrelevant to me. However, I appreciate your understanding of history.

If the game was a weak product anyway, the game wouldn't have survived under the constant pressure of media hacks and the like in NSW who have wanted to destroy Australian football. All of those people in Wagga, Cootamundra etc would have "converted" to the English codes of league and union if it was a weak product.

To me, though, we have to get away from feeding the state divide stuff (eg "ex-Victorian", ex "Western Australian"), as it gives fodder for people who want to hate the AUSTRALIAN game...after all this game was largely invented by a new south wales man..so whether Victorian, NSW, Qld ...it doesn't matter. Every state has a role in the game. They are all playing/involved in the Australian pastime.

I agree they are nothing but NSWelshman, but originally they all came from somewhere, everyone does, that's how games, customs, languages, etc travel.

The spread of the game has always interested me, generally it has spread through mining but in the Riverina's case through farming, there was enough of a critical mass of interest to sustain the game in the Riverina, Condobolin was about the upper reaches, although Condobolin is really in the Central West and has been in and out of the Northern Riverina league forming and reforming.

Shannon Nole ( pushing the boundaries now ) was a Condobolin boy and played footy, but i will bet he was a farm boy and not a town boy and i would also bet his farm was on the Western side of Condobolin closer to AF territory (West Wyalong ) than the Eastern, (Parkes, Forbes)

Anyway the Barassi line is a very very slow burn and although i find it interesting any change now is generational, the real change is from areas that 20 years ago would have been unheard of, for EX this young bloke from Northern NSW. http://www.foxsportspulse.com/assoc...ID=31300&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=42064736

Just a guess but i would have thought this league would be the probably he newest league in this country, probably around the early 1980's

 

[Gigantor]

I agree they are nothing but NSWelshman, but originally they all came from somewhere, everyone does, that's how games, customs, languages, etc travel.

The spread of the game has always interested me, generally it has spread through mining but in the Riverina's case through farming, there was enough of a critical mass of interest to sustain the game in the Riverina, Condobolin was about the upper reaches, although Condobolin is really in the Central West and has been in and out of the Northern Riverina league forming and reforming.

Shannon Nole ( pushing the boundaries now ) was a Condobolin boy and played footy, but i will bet he was a farm boy and not a town boy and i would also bet his farm was on the Western side of Condobolin closer to AF territory (West Wyalong ) than the Eastern, (Parkes, Forbes)

Anyway the Barassi line is a very very slow burn and although i find it interesting any change now is generational, the real change is from areas that 20 years ago would have been unheard of, for EX this young bloke from Northern NSW. http://www.foxsportspulse.com/assoc...ID=31300&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=42064736

Just a guess but i would have thought this league would be the probably he newest league in this country, probably around the early 1980's

Interesting stuff - I had a Forestry mate who played footy with me in Southern NSW who found work in forestry in around the North Coast. He actually lived in Sawtell (from memory, about 10 ks out of Coffs), and played footy with them. I visited him in the early 1990s, and at that time it was a 5 team comp.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Interesting stuff - I had a Forestry mate who played footy with me in Southern NSW who found work in forestry in around the North Coast. He actually lived in Sawtell (from memory, about 10 ks out of Coffs), and played footy with them. I visited him in the early 1990s, and at that time it was a 5 team comp.

I think the North Coast is a relatively high population and growth area that would really benefit from increased AFL funding, the Swans get a few academy players from the area but they can't provide anything like the AFL would be able to, there is a base to build from.

Like all of NSW if the AFL put the resources in less Southern kids will be drafted North, i imagine that a win win, can't see any logical argument that opposes that.

 

[telsor]

From the AFL report...(seemed relevant here)

2015 Draft.

Vic 42% (35 main list, 12 rookie)
SA 14% (11,5)
WA 11.4% (8,5)
NSW/ACT 9.8% (6,5)
QLD 9.8% (4,7)
Tas 3.6% (4,0)
NT 2.7% (1,2)
Other sports 3.6% (0,4)
International 2.7% (0,3)

 

[Garlic muncher]

From the AFL report...(seemed relevant here)

2015 Draft.

Vic 42% (35 main list, 12 rookie)
SA 14% (11,5)
WA 11.4% (8,5)
NSW/ACT 9.8% (6,5)
QLD 9.8% (4,7)
Tas 3.6% (4,0)
NT 2.7% (1,2)
Other sports 3.6% (0,4)
International 2.7% (0,3)

Outside of Victoria ( obviously ) a very even spread which i must admit surprised me.

I think we can expect with the Northern club academies those numbers to either rise or stay about the same

 

[telsor]

Outside of Victoria ( obviously ) a very even spread which i must admit surprised me.

I think we can expect with the Northern club academies those numbers to either rise or stay about the same

Surprised me a bit too. You can read too much into such figures, especially when they're only one year, but it does raise questions about the club based academies...If those states are producing players almost as much as WA, then why do the clubs get/need the discounts?

(yes, I'm anti *club* academies, I think they should still be there, but be run by AFLNSW/AFLQLD).

 

[Garlic muncher]

Surprised me a bit too. You can read too much into such figures, especially when they're only one year, but it does raise questions about the club based academies...If those states are producing players almost as much as WA, then why do the clubs get/need the discounts?

(yes, I'm anti *club* academies, I think they should still be there, but be run by AFLNSW/AFLQLD).

See i don't get that, why should people be concerned ( raise questions) , shouldn't Victorian clubs be happy they get to keep Victorian boys ?.

The Academies are a fantastic way to get talented kids who may never have been interested in AF to take up the game under the Swans or GWS ''brand'', something that probably would not happen under the "AFL'' brand, kids are attracted to being part of a team, part of the Swans team - for EX

Would all these kids who are part of the Swans academy in Newcastle, Northern Sydney, North Coast of NSW and even country NW NSW be interested if they were not part of a club, the biggest club in NSW of any code by a variety of measures, that a pretty good hook for kids, the AFL brand not so much.

I think WA and SA are swings and roundabouts, one year a great crop, the next not so much.

 

[telsor]

See i don't get that, why should people be concerned ( raise questions) , shouldn't Victorian clubs be happy they get to keep Victorian boys ?.

Shouldn't all clubs have the same access to all players in a fair draft?

Assume for a moment that there is a standout No1 pick.

If he's from any state apart from NSW/QLD, then whoever gets pick 1 will take him (even if that club is from NSW/QLD).

If he's from NSW/QLD, then the NSW/QLD, then whichever club has some pretense of a claim on him (however little development they've actually done) will take him, even if they have pick 18, and they'll 'only' pay the equivalent of pick 3 or 4 to do so.

How is that fair?


Add to that that whatever the academies do would stop at players who have the potential to play AFL.

What is better for the game as a whole, long term, 100 NEAFL players coming through, or 1 AFL player? You can be the club based academies will put all their efforts into that 1 guy.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Shouldn't all clubs have the same access to all players in a fair draft?

Assume for a moment that there is a standout No1 pick.

If he's from any state apart from NSW/QLD, then whoever gets pick 1 will take him (even if that club is from NSW/QLD).

If he's from NSW/QLD, then the NSW/QLD, then whichever club has some pretense of a claim on him (however little development they've actually done) will take him, even if they have pick 18, and they'll 'only' pay the equivalent of pick 3 or 4 to do so.

How is that fair?


Add to that that whatever the academies do would stop at players who have the potential to play AFL.

What is better for the game as a whole, long term, 100 NEAFL players coming through, or 1 AFL player? You can be the club based academies will put all their efforts into that 1 guy.

Its not fair, but neither is the advantage VIC clubs have in many areas, or WA clubs in other areas etc, it is an attempt by the AFL to balance out a comp and ultimately grow the game or pool of draftees, one of its charters i would imagine.

Proof is in the pudding, look at the last couple of years of NSW drafts and the 10 years previously when it was pretty dry, a few kids not drafted locally have been picked up by SA clubs, Vic clubs as well, they are not all staying in NSW.

They also have to bid on these players, so it is not all cut and dried, but i am not fully up to speed on that bidding process.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Further North of the Barassi line, but unheard of even 5 years ago.

The Sydney independent Sydney schools comp continues to grow, starting 4 years ago and having 31 teams last year has 42 teams playing on Saturday mornings this season and a open division this year ( year 11/12).

Most of the prestigious schools in Sydney and bastions of rugby have teams in various year groups.

This years prospectus.

http://aflnswact.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/20160210-SN-Independant-Schools-Prospectus.pdf

 

[FootyJunkie]

Nah it's gone a bit backwards. Back in the day, Canberra was a bonafide Aussie Rules town. That's now been lost.

Fitzroy should have been pushed to Canberra in the early 90s to keep it an AR town.