Basically what the club is saying is !!!

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tige19

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Thread starter #1
We are gonna finish in the bottom 3 for the next 2 or 3 seasons so we might as well trade experienced players for unproven kids in a pathetic weak draft in the hope that they are gonna be superstars.

And in 3 years time when Everitt,Crawford,Smith,Lekkas,Barker etc are gone these kids are gonna be guns who will replace them, there is no doubt about that :confused: .

For me the club is playing a very risky game not only on the field but off the field. Our club has supporters have been paying for memberships and getting great numbers for years now with no return. The football department are playing with fire if they think that supporters are going to continue to cough up good money for no results for the next 2 or 3 years ONCE AGAIN.

This is very dangerous and pretty much a hit or miss situation, we might end up with 2 or 3 guns from this draft to go along with Buddy,Ruff and Lewis or we could end up with 3 more lemons similiur to Luke Brennan,Daniel Elstone and Rick Ladson now wouldnt that be great we could really build a side around them sort of footballers.

Is it just me or do i see us not being that FAR off with the list we have now??? I have no problems trading Hay away but why not give Freo our 2nd rounder and get Polak. And why cant we deal for player - player trades?? all we need to do is get a descent big man someone who is a bit more mature (Toby Thurstans type) to throw in with Williams,Franklin,Dixon and Barker along with our first couple of priority picks and we have the makings of a descent side.

We have Everitt - Hodge - Mitchell - Crawford as the on ballers with Bateman and Lonie (who is improving) on the wings and blokes like Lewis and Smith running off the backline. We can throw Thurstans at CHF for our big man target with Franklin being the 2nd tall with Williams,Barker,Boyle and Dixon all rotating through the forward line.

Think about it we would have many positions covered, our backline is strong, on ball is top notch and we have an improving forward line with a provem goal kicker and a few big blokes.

Im just saying i think the club think we are alot further off than what we actually are, and trading for all these draft picks is very dangerous stuff.

I actually want to see results in my lifetime, im sick of seeing Hawthorn at the bottom of the ladder its getting quite annoying.

cheers
 

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cs61

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#2
I agree with you here. I felt we had enough youth to build on already, and have a list that is growing quite well, I thought we had a steady chance of improvement, and am not sure if I want us to go backwards next year.

Its easy to say, "yeah nah we'll be right, just three years of rebuilding". that's a long time, all of 2006, 2007, 2008, I think we'd need some reward over that time, not premierships but contiual improvement. I was all for trading Hay, but not for random picks, I thought we'd go after at least one/two developing players like Polak, or Statno or even McConnel who the Kangeroos got. Maybe we are planning to trade some picks we get from hay but we aren't leaving ourselves much time.

Draft picks are great, but I just thought with the amount we had already, we needed to look elsewhere to improve our list.

Maybe we'll pick up an experienced player in the PSD.
 

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#3
Anyone who thinks we are in the position to draft for ready made players and be competitive in the next couple years is KIDDING THEMSELVES.

We have to take the risk and bleed as many kids as possible
and hope that at least half become superstars.
 

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#4
Mighty Hawk said:
Anyone who thinks we are in the position to draft for ready made players and be competitive in the next couple years is KIDDING THEMSELVES.

We have to take the risk and bleed as many kids as possible
and hope that at least half become superstars.

Agreed!
 

tige19

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Thread starter #5
Mighty Hawk said:
Anyone who thinks we are in the position to draft for ready made players and be competitive in the next couple years is KIDDING THEMSELVES.

We have to take the risk and bleed as many kids as possible
and hope that at least half become superstars.
In the meantime we lose 10k of members, lose money, grow into debt and finsihin the bottom 3 for the next 3 seasons?? all for what?? in the hope that this years draftees are gonna become guns, in a weak weak weak draft???

Who is kidding them selves?? football is now a business, if you cant swim you sink, if you dont win games you lose sponsorship and money its that simple.

Pull your head out of the sand mate, the club needs success or we will struggle in all areas not just the football field.

cheers
 

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#6
I disagree mate , I mean take this year for example . We finished third last yes , but there were some promising signs for the future . I for one took sheer joy from seeing our "excitement machine" Buddy Franklin in action along wiwth fellow first year players Lewis and Roughhead. This along with our genuine midfield of Mitchell Hodge and Bateman , we do have an excellent core team , so long as we can bleed exciting youngsters aswell as putting up a decent effort victory wise then I feel thats all the fans can ask for in the short run - if at 2008 we are still in a rut , it is THEN I feel questions need to be asked ? What do you think?
 

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#7
Tige19,

What you're proposing is akin to a near knock-down / rebuild job of a house, and then deciding halfway through to prop some of the old house because you want to live in it whilst the renovations are done.

Unworkable if you ask me. No point doing a half-ar$ed job, and if you can save some $$$ by keeping the list young and hungry instead of looking for mid-age established players who want big coin, then all the better.

They've chosen this road, Crawford, Everitt, Lekkas are on notice. Frankly Barker shouldn't be there if you ask me. No point recruiting anyone over 25 years of age. Make sure next years' side consolidates to a 9th - 12th finish and pushes into the finals (Bulldogs' style) in 2007.

I doubt you will lose any members of that eventuates.
 

Mighty Hawk

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#8
tige19 said:
In the meantime we lose 10k of members, lose money, grow into debt and finsihin the bottom 3 for the next 3 seasons?? all for what?? in the hope that this years draftees are gonna become guns, in a weak weak weak draft???

Who is kidding them selves?? football is now a business, if you cant swim you sink, if you dont win games you lose sponsorship and money its that simple.

Pull your head out of the sand mate, the club needs success or we will struggle in all areas not just the football field.

cheers
Dude i was going to reply to this but others have done a better job at it.

Good to see most Hawk fans on here are realistic.


What you fail to realise is that we have been kicking goals off field for 5+ years and its got us NOWHERE on field.

I want to see our side play great, high scoring, high marking, free flowing , WINNING games of footy.

How are we supposed to get that kind of side trading for players that
are UNWANTED by other clubs.

Get serious dude.
 

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#9
You need to keep a few senior players, even when a club is in a rebuilding stage. If you dont the players will be belted and will develop a losing culture, loss there confidence etc....
 

Mighty Hawk

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#10
Hawkk said:
You need to keep a few senior players, even when a club is in a rebuilding stage. If you dont the players will be belted and will develop a losing culture, loss there confidence etc....
Cmon Hawkk,

-Crawford wanted to leave and thought of his career before the club.
-Everritt wanted out because he was chasing success.
-Hay baggs the club after not doing anything for 4 years and taking the money.
-Holland (see above)
-Rawlings abandoned the club for his own selfish needs.

Really great influence on the kids :rolleyes:
 

GoOsH1

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#11
I dunno, I think you guys have almost taken it too far IMO. the thing is, if this side finished bottom next year, and Everitt leaves, what's to say that one or more of the out of contract kids decides they want to go to a club playing consistant finals footy? or, god forbid, one of the stars like Hodge or Mitchell wants out. So you get 2 first round picks for them, or whatever, great, but you have to wait 2 or 3 years for those kids to develop, and then hope they're not duds and hope they don't want to leave.
I dunno, most of the clubs looking for a premiership in the next couple of years have a few first round picks, but I don't think any of them have taken it to the extent you guys are taking it to be honest. Out of Adelaide, Sydney, West Coast and Saints this year, only Saints really bottomed out, and even still they kept a lot of their older guys, Gehrig, Harvey, Peckett etc etc. while they rebuilt. You guys won't have many older guys left to teach these kids soon!
It also means that in a couple of years there will be a real squeeze on your salary cap as all the player's values peak at the same time, making it difficult to handle.

Interesting to see how you guys go anyway.
 

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Hawkk

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#12
Mighty Hawk said:
Dude i was going to reply to this but others have done a better job at it.

Good to see most Hawk fans on here are realistic.


What you fail to realise is that we have been kicking goals off field for 5+ years and its got us NOWHERE on field.

I want to see our side play great, high scoring, high marking, free flowing , WINNING games of footy.

How are we supposed to get that kind of side trading for players that
are UNWANTED by other clubs.

Get serious dude.
It nearly got us a grand final?

If we didnt improve the finances we would be dead.

We are going down a dangerous path atm. 22 kids wont win you a football match, you have to bring them in slowly
 

Hawkk

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#13
Mighty Hawk said:
Cmon Hawkk,

-Crawford wanted to leave and thought of his career before the club.
-Everritt wanted out because he was chasing success.
-Hay baggs the club after not doing anything for 4 years and taking the money.
-Holland (see above)
-Rawlings abandoned the club for his own selfish needs.

Really great influence on the kids :rolleyes:
The thing is...despite all the ******** that gets goven to Hay, he wanted to stay, not because of the money but because of club loyalty...Thats why he lashed out and by god he had good reason to. Football is a buisness, how many of the current youngsters do you think want to play for the jumper....0.

They will be chasing the dollar as well.
 

Mighty Hawk

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#14
GoOsH1 said:
I dunno, I think you guys have almost taken it too far IMO. the thing is, if this side finished bottom next year, and Everitt leaves, what's to say that one or more of the out of contract kids decides they want to go to a club playing consistant finals footy? or, god forbid, one of the stars like Hodge or Mitchell wants out. So you get 2 first round picks for them, or whatever, great, but you have to wait 2 or 3 years for those kids to develop, and then hope they're not duds and hope they don't want to leave.
I dunno, most of the clubs looking for a premiership in the next couple of years have a few first round picks, but I don't think any of them have taken it to the extent you guys are taking it to be honest. Out of Adelaide, Sydney, West Coast and Saints this year, only Saints really bottomed out, and even still they kept a lot of their older guys, Gehrig, Harvey, Peckett etc etc. while they rebuilt. You guys won't have many older guys left to teach these kids soon!
It also means that in a couple of years there will be a real squeeze on your salary cap as all the player's values peak at the same time, making it difficult to handle.

Interesting to see how you guys go anyway.

I understand what your saying, but he problem is with the SENIOR players
ATTITUDES.

I am all for keep the players above i listed. If thier hearts were
at the club and not for thier own selfish needs and deep pockets.

Im not blaming the current coaching and recruiting staff, but the people that had the job BEFORE then are the reason why our club is so up the crapper.

They have alot to answer for.

I just want the group thats in now to have a decent chance to do something with our playing stocks and not have Hawk supporters constantly whining and whinging about getting rid of these selfish players.

They should be given the flick, all of them.
 
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#15
Hawkk said:
The thing is...despite all the ******** that gets goven to Hay, he wanted to stay, not because of the money but because of club loyalty...Thats why he lashed out and by god he had good reason to. Football is a buisness, how many of the current youngsters do you think want to play for the jumper....0.

They will be chasing the dollar as well.
Why did he meet with Laidley then at Byron Bay? If he really was loyal to the Hawks he would have said, "thanks for the interest Laids but I am contracted and want to play for the Hawks"!
 

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#16
Hawkk said:
The thing is...despite all the ******** that gets goven to Hay, he wanted to stay, not because of the money but because of club loyalty...Thats why he lashed out and by god he had good reason to. Football is a buisness, how many of the current youngsters do you think want to play for the jumper....0.

They will be chasing the dollar as well.

You are joking me.

He did nothing for FOUR years and took the money.

Of course he would be upset when we decieded to give him the flick.

His gravy train would of come to an end.

Your not going to change my mind dude, those senior players on our list have make me sick for years.

The club needs this shake up, but im just affraid the current coaching staff
will buckle under all the whining, whinging and comlaining.

Keep these duds that have gotten us nowhwere for 5 years
and then continue on our mediocre way.

Im sure all these supporters that were complaing about going youth
would all start critising them for keeping these duds and for us
getting now where with them.

Like the bloke above said, its a risk going youth.

But if you want to be successful you take the risks.

If you dont, you settle for being mediocre for another 15+ years.
 

Mighty Hawk

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#17
Back Pocket Rocket said:
Why did he meet with Laidley then at Byron Bay? If he really was loyal to the Hawks he would have said, "thanks for the interest Laids but I am contracted and want to play for the Hawks"!
Thankyou.
 

Gary Shadforth

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#19
Some interesting comments here. Varying points of view is human nature at work so many of us have different ideas about the way in which our club is handling the U-turn.

For mine I have full confidence in Clarkson, Bucky and the football department and the way in which they are handling matters.

Unlike the Schwab - Turnbull era our club is not taking rubbish from the likes of Hay, Spida and maybe Crawf (he really remains to be his quiet self). There are no vibes of ill feeling coming through from other players and you will find at the AGM in December a pretty united bunch of (mostly) young fit men biting at the bit for season 2006.

IMO, I keep reiterating, the player market out there presently is as weak as long as I can remember (someone make up a list of available gun or experienced players wanting out at their present clubs or the latter putting any real quality up for trade - you will find it very difficult to do).

So what our powers-that-be are doing is going down the alternative road they see as the only option, that is, generally, working on developing and nurturing our own guns for the future. Let's face it many of the other clubs from this year's fifth place down have their problems too, many with bigger probs than us. How would you like us to be in the position of the likes of Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond, Melbourne, Fremantle to name some?

I believe our club is going along a better path for future success ... and patience is a virtue remember.
 

tige19

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Thread starter #20
Gary Shadforth said:
Some interesting comments here. Varying points of view is human nature at work so many of us have different ideas about the way in which our club is handling the U-turn.

For mine I have full confidence in Clarkson, Bucky and the football department and the way in which they are handling matters.

Unlike the Schwab - Turnbull era our club is not taking rubbish from the likes of Hay, Spida and maybe Crawf (he really remains to be his quiet self). There are no vibes of ill feeling coming through from other players and you will find at the AGM in December a pretty united bunch of (mostly) young fit men biting at the bit for season 2006.

IMO, I keep reiterating, the player market out there presently is as weak as long as I can remember (someone make up a list of available gun or experienced players wanting out at their present clubs or the latter putting any real quality up for trade - you will find it very difficult to do).

So what our powers-that-be are doing is going down the alternative road they see as the only option, that is, generally, working on developing and nurturing our own guns for the future. Let's face it many of the other clubs from this year's fifth place down have their problems too, many with bigger probs than us. How would you like us to be in the position of the likes of Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond, Melbourne, Fremantle to name some?

I believe our club is going along a better path for future success ... and patience is a virtue remember.
Dude to many fans have shown to much patience, we have been waiting since 2001 to be a descent side, thats 5 frigging years ago and next year will make 6, how much patience can 1 have???

If supporters are starting to get a bit fickle with the team just imagine what sponsors are thinking?? what sponsor wants to be apart of a club that reguarly finishes inthe bottom half??? NONE.

Fans may be patient but on the other hand football is a business and if we dont start getting results then we will be in a sad and sorry boat very similiur to the likes of Richmond and worst case Carlton.

NO THANKS.
 

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#21
tige19 said:
Dude to many fans have shown to much patience, we have been waiting since 2001 to be a descent side, thats 5 frigging years ago and next year will make 6, how much patience can 1 have???

If supporters are starting to get a bit fickle with the team just imagine what sponsors are thinking?? what sponsor wants to be apart of a club that reguarly finishes inthe bottom half??? NONE.

Fans may be patient but on the other hand football is a business and if we dont start getting results then we will be in a sad and sorry boat very similiur to the likes of Richmond and worst case Carlton.

NO THANKS.
Ok, Why havent we been successful with all these players YOU want to keep in the past 5 years?

Explain that.

It always falls back on the players an the cattle you have.

They are not up to it. FULLSTOP.
 

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#22
Gary Shadforth said:
Some interesting comments here. Varying points of view is human nature at work so many of us have different ideas about the way in which our club is handling the U-turn.

For mine I have full confidence in Clarkson, Bucky and the football department and the way in which they are handling matters.

Unlike the Schwab - Turnbull era our club is not taking rubbish from the likes of Hay, Spida and maybe Crawf (he really remains to be his quiet self). There are no vibes of ill feeling coming through from other players and you will find at the AGM in December a pretty united bunch of (mostly) young fit men biting at the bit for season 2006.

IMO, I keep reiterating, the player market out there presently is as weak as long as I can remember (someone make up a list of available gun or experienced players wanting out at their present clubs or the latter putting any real quality up for trade - you will find it very difficult to do).

So what our powers-that-be are doing is going down the alternative road they see as the only option, that is, generally, working on developing and nurturing our own guns for the future. Let's face it many of the other clubs from this year's fifth place down have their problems too, many with bigger probs than us. How would you like us to be in the position of the likes of Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond, Melbourne, Fremantle to name some?

I believe our club is going along a better path for future success ... and patience is a virtue remember.

Well said. :thumbsu:
 

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#23
What Gary said.
2002 remember we won enough games to have made the finals in 03, 04 & 05. Hardly a shambles of a year and given the run we had with injuries we had something to look forward to. I thought at the end of 02, was the right time to replace Schwab. He could not consistently get that playing group playing good footy and the recruiting strategy was simply flawed.
I wrote an e-mail to some friends saying we need to take a year to rebuild and get rid of the players that were never going to take us that extra step to a GF.
Make no mistake, recruiting other teams rejects will never establish a competent enough core to make a GF. We must 'rebuild' till we have a core group with the ability AND desire to win at all costs. These types of players are generally not involved in trades so we really have no other option.
 

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#24
saaam said:
What Gary said.
2002 remember we won enough games to have made the finals in 03, 04 & 05. Hardly a shambles of a year and given the run we had with injuries we had something to look forward to. I thought at the end of 02, was the right time to replace Schwab. He could not consistently get that playing group playing good footy and the recruiting strategy was simply flawed.
I wrote an e-mail to some friends saying we need to take a year to rebuild and get rid of the players that were never going to take us that extra step to a GF.
Make no mistake, recruiting other teams rejects will never establish a competent enough core to make a GF. We must 'rebuild' till we have a core group with the ability AND desire to win at all costs. These types of players are generally not involved in trades so we really have no other option.
Thanks for the extension of what I am on about, saaam. Your last para is so spot on.
 

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#25
tige19,

I can understand your frustration. Football is a business these days, and in the real world businesses would not put up with the performance of their staff on huge salaries the way Hawthorn have put up with the Hay's hollands to name a few. The Hawthorn of the past did put up with that and look where we are at. The New hawthorn under AC and Robbo etc will not tollarate mediocrity and are 12 months into finding out who wants to wear the hawthorn jumper, So far the ones wanting out are mainly the ones who have gotten away with so much over the past few years. This club needs a full overhall by people who wont take crap like the past. AC, Robbo and the incumbent Jeff Kennett are definatly the right people to take us back to where we belong. We may lose some fans along the way, but the real supporters will stick by the clubs descisions, endure the pain and come out even stronger when the current pains start turning into a successful club again. I suggest you read the Hard Way and understand what the Club and it's loyal supporters went through for years. By keeping the hay's etc or trading for average players from other clubs is not the right thing to do at the moment, we need more kids in the club. I think AC has read the chapter from where John kennedy snr took over... and like JK he too want this club to be great again. But it will take pain.. stick with it tige and don't be like the fickle Richmond & collingwood supporters who keep jumping on and off the bandwagon....The hard years make the good years even better..You will be a better supporter for it...
 
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