List Mgmt. Bassirou Faye - Possible Cat B Rookie

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Scodog10

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I vaguely remember 2 years, but not sure.

We could probably list him in the academy now and then we'd have to wait for the time period before he became available as an NGA.
Just checked and a decision on his eligibility would be at the AFL’s discretion because they need to be domiciled within our catchment zone for a period of 5 years. Obviously being in Senegal is outside our catchment. Unless there’s been a rule tweak there was no time requirement.

It’s a bummer because I’d rather we didn’t promote one of Tohill or Wilson if we intend to sign Faye.
 

Scodog10

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it puzzles me that we dont take any "risks" in the lower picks and rookies in the draft..
It puzzles me why anyone would? A risk, IMO, is a tall at any pick beyond 50 and boy have we taken a bunch of those over the past decade! Those late picks should be exclusively used on small forwards who don’t have the production because they play the hardest role on the ground.
 

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sr36

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Just checked and a decision on his eligibility would be at the AFL’s discretion because they need to be domiciled within our catchment zone for a period of 5 years. Obviously being in Senegal is outside our catchment. Unless there’s been a rule tweak there was no time requirement.

It’s a bummer because I’d rather we didn’t promote one of Tohill or Wilson if we intend to sign Faye.
Yeah. To sign him, we'd have to rate him more likely to make it than guys like Callow, as he will force us to main list a cat b and will cost us a preseason draft pick.
 

sr36

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It puzzles me why anyone would? A risk, IMO, is a tall at any pick beyond 50 and boy have we taken a bunch of those over the past decade! Those late picks should be exclusively used on small forwards who don’t have the production because they play the hardest role on the ground.
I think a bit of our issue is that the talls we add late are added on athleticism. I think with talls, the ones you add late should be done so on ability to read the ball flight and contest, but are athletically or height NQR - that's where the success comes from with late talls.

I think we've gotten it the wrong way around, we've added mediums and smalls without the physical attributes, particularly pace, late and talls with the height and athelticism late - It needs to be flipped.
 
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Markfs

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I think a bit of our issue is that the talls we add late are added on athleticism. I think with talls, the ones you add late should be done so on ability to read the ball flight and contest, but are athletically or height NQR - that's where the success comes from with late talls.

I think we've gotten it the wrong way around, we've added mediums and smalls without the physical attributes, particularly pace, late and talls with the height and athelticism late - It needs to be flipped.
We've added athletic talls as late picks? I can think of jonathon marsh. Are you counting toby thoolen?

i'm not knowledgeable enough to know what you're saying, but i think we go for plodders too often.
 

Markfs

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It puzzles me why anyone would? A risk, IMO, is a tall at any pick beyond 50 and boy have we taken a bunch of those over the past decade! Those late picks should be exclusively used on small forwards who don’t have the production because they play the hardest role on the ground.
richmond drafted Bigoa Nyuon at 54.....he's 2 metres tall

mabiol chol at 47 .....he's 2 metre tall

nathan broad at 67.... he's 192cm

and that's just Richmond...

I think the main problem is not picking talls beyond 50 but lousy picking..
 

Markfs

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It puzzles me why anyone would? A risk, IMO, is a tall at any pick beyond 50 and boy have we taken a bunch of those over the past decade! Those late picks should be exclusively used on small forwards who don’t have the production because they play the hardest role on the ground.
mitchell lewis at the hawks at pick 76 and he's 196cm

james sicily at 56

Port adelaide got dougal howard at 56 ...199cm

west coast got jeremy mcgovern at 74.....196cm
 

Markfs

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It puzzles me why anyone would? A risk, IMO, is a tall at any pick beyond 50 and boy have we taken a bunch of those over the past decade! Those late picks should be exclusively used on small forwards who don’t have the production because they play the hardest role on the ground.
Crows got Alex Keath at 58....197cm

Got Kyle Hardigan at 76 ....194cm
 

Scodog10

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Crows got Alex Keath at 58....197cm

Got Kyle Hardigan at 76 ....194cm
mitchell lewis at the hawks at pick 76 and he's 196cm

james sicily at 56

Port adelaide got dougal howard at 56 ...199cm

west coast got jeremy mcgovern at 74.....196cm
richmond drafted Bigoa Nyuon at 54.....he's 2 metres tall

mabiol chol at 47 .....he's 2 metre tall

nathan broad at 67.... he's 192cm

and that's just Richmond...

I think the main problem is not picking talls beyond 50 but lousy picking..
V our McCarthy, Lynch, Gordon, Gault, Paine and Peckham just to name a few (there’s at least a couple more busts dating back to 2010 that are escaping me). Keath and Nyoun were also priority access players (Keath Cat B and Nyoun QLD academy).

Sure there’s the odd hit like Howard, McDonald, Lewis, McGovern, Collins etc. but look throughout the league where the quality comes from and it’s skewed toward early picks in terms of talls.

If you’re playing the odds as you suggested rather than luck with maybe 6 senior spots available for talls v 16 for smalls then you draft tall early and small late.
 

sr36

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We've added athletic talls as late picks? I can think of jonathon marsh. Are you counting toby thoolen?

i'm not knowledgeable enough to know what you're saying, but i think we go for plodders too often.
I'm suggesting with late talls we go for athletes and hope they learn to play. Macarthy, Shae, Richmond, Lynch,, etc... There's been heaps. Whereas late talls who succeed tend to be the guys who are good competitive footballers but don't tick off all the athletic attributes - Mihocek, Bock, Grimes, Rampe, etc..
 
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Markfs

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V our McCarthy, Lynch, Gordon, Gault, Paine and Peckham just to name a few (there’s at least a couple more busts dating back to 2010 that are escaping me). Keath and Nyoun were also priority access players (Keath Cat B and Nyoun QLD academy).

Sure there’s the odd hit like Howard, McDonald, Lewis, McGovern, Collins etc. but look throughout the league where the quality comes from and it’s skewed toward early picks in terms of talls.

If you’re playing the odds as you suggested rather than luck with maybe 6 senior spots available for talls v 16 for smalls then you draft tall early and small late.
I was actually listing talls from other teams outside the top 50 draft picks who have been successful. And I didnt list the rookies.

We havent had hardly successful talls from late picks.... and that's the fault of NOT PICKING THE RIGHT PLAYERS..... all this system crap is just crap... my system is better than your system etc etc in just about everything in footy. The other teams have picked the right players and we haven't.

So it's no good picking talls early on and all the other crap if we are PICKING THE WRONG PLAYERS.

I love it how buckley gets so much crap and Hine gets nothing... I just cant understand it. He's still picking for Malthouse in 2003 but does it for every year since.... same ol same ol... guys who cant kick... good families....good schools.... born in december etc etc.... Nothing dynamic please... just good solid boys from private schools and good families..

if that's system based, then it aint working
 

Scodog10

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I was actually listing talls from other teams outside the top 50 draft picks who have been successful. And I didnt list the rookies.

We havent had hardly successful talls from late picks.... and that's the fault of NOT PICKING THE RIGHT PLAYERS..... all this system crap is just crap... my system is better than your system etc etc in just about everything in footy. The other teams have picked the right players and we haven't.

So it's no good picking talls early on and all the other crap if we are PICKING THE WRONG PLAYERS.

I love it how buckley gets so much crap and Hine gets nothing... I just cant understand it. He's still picking for Malthouse in 2003 but does it for every year since.... same ol same ol... guys who cant kick... good families....good schools.... born in december etc etc.... Nothing dynamic please... just good solid boys from private schools and good families..

if that's system based, then it aint working
I think you’ll find that McGovern and Chol were rookies.

Late in the draft are they picking the right players or the right players for their system? Food for thought because there’s no point picking a ruckman late for instance if you have a plethora of options ahead of them. Oh wait...

Edit: one point of agreement I have is that we’re poor at identifying successful KPP traits. As a result we tend to value those traits lower meaning we speculate more than most clubs as Sr highlighted. That’s a shared responsibility between the recruiting staff and the coach who clearly doesn’t rate old school KPP’s.
 
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Markfs

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I'm suggesting with late talls we go for athletes and hope they learn to play. Macarthy, Shae, Richmond, Lynch,, etc... There's been heaps. Whereas late talls who succeed tend to be the guys who are good competitive footballers but don't tick off all the athletic attributes - Mihocek, Bock, Grimes, Rampe, etc..

Richmond????? I had to look to remember who he was. I listed a heap of players from other teams who have been successful. A lot of them athletes. A lot of them not....

You list someone who you say was a good athlete and I say that he was crap.... he was a crap pick. You cant make a good player from a crap pick. McCarthy was another rookie. I didnt list rookies. There are probably a heap I could have added to the successful list..

What distinguishes them from the ones that the Pies picked was not the athletic talent, but our picks were CRAP PICKS. The other teams picked players who ended up being successful... that's the answer, not whether they were athletic or not.
 

Markfs

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I think you’ll find that McGovern and Chol were rookies.

Late in the draft are they picking the right players or the right players for their system? Food for thought because there’s no point picking a ruckman late for instance if you have a plethora of options ahead of them. Oh wait...
system dustbin crapsim.... mcgovern would play in a pie team.... chol would probably play too.

s
 

TW Sherrin

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Why would Chol be any happier at Collingwood behind Grundy, Cox and Cameron? If he’s going to make it he needs to work on his forward craft. The reason we’d be interested in Faye is as a free hit replacement for Lynch.
imo is better than Cameron and Lynch.
 

Markfs

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If you’re playing the odds as you suggested rather than luck with maybe 6 senior spots available for talls v 16 for smalls then you draft tall early and small late.
I list a number of successful talls late in the draft over the 7 or 8 years and I only went through half the teams if that. And you say teams dont get good talls from late picks ( and i didnt list the rookies)...

WE dont get good talls from late picks....WE WE WE WE.... other team do....WE don't....others yes.....we no....
 

TW Sherrin

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I was actually listing talls from other teams outside the top 50 draft picks who have been successful. And I didnt list the rookies.

We havent had hardly successful talls from late picks.... and that's the fault of NOT PICKING THE RIGHT PLAYERS..... all this system crap is just crap... my system is better than your system etc etc in just about everything in footy. The other teams have picked the right players and we haven't.

So it's no good picking talls early on and all the other crap if we are PICKING THE WRONG PLAYERS.

I love it how buckley gets so much crap and Hine gets nothing... I just cant understand it. He's still picking for Malthouse in 2003 but does it for every year since.... same ol same ol... guys who cant kick... good families....good schools.... born in december etc etc.... Nothing dynamic please... just good solid boys from private schools and good families..

if that's system based, then it aint working

agree on Hine. his days of a free pass should be gone.
 

sr36

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I was actually listing talls from other teams outside the top 50 draft picks who have been successful. And I didnt list the rookies.

We havent had hardly successful talls from late picks.... and that's the fault of NOT PICKING THE RIGHT PLAYERS..... all this system crap is just crap... my system is better than your system etc etc in just about everything in footy. The other teams have picked the right players and we haven't.

So it's no good picking talls early on and all the other crap if we are PICKING THE WRONG PLAYERS.

I love it how buckley gets so much crap and Hine gets nothing... I just cant understand it. He's still picking for Malthouse in 2003 but does it for every year since.... same ol same ol... guys who cant kick... good families....good schools.... born in december etc etc.... Nothing dynamic please... just good solid boys from private schools and good families..

if that's system based, then it aint working
I'm pretty confident that all clubs will by using some form of criterion based selection or as you are calling it - a system. Generally speaking, those regularly picking the right players will have good criterion. Those regularly missing out need to change their criterion.

My read on it is that Hine had great success early as he was one of the first to really focus on awareness and decision making and it was highly weighted in his criterion, but everyone else caught up in that regard and more recently, Hine missed the boat with pace regarding flankers and has too heavily weighted athleticism in talls. He needs to adjust his criterion - not throw out the idea of having a system to help make unbiased decisions..
 

Scodog10

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I list a number of successful talls late in the draft over the 7 or 8 years and I only went through half the teams if that. And you say teams dont get good talls from late picks ( and i didnt list the rookies)...

WE dont get good talls from late picks....WE WE WE WE.... other team do....WE don't....others yes.....we no....
You listed 3 Sicily, Howard and McGovern that are quality. If I were to run the same exercise for smalls each team would have at least 5. Collingwood have Noble, JT, Daicos, T Brown and Crisp selected post 50 and better than tripe like Chol and Nyoun. You’re wrong move on.
 

Markfs

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I'm pretty confident that all clubs will by using some form of criterion based selection or as you are calling it - a system. Generally speaking, those regularly picking the right players will have good criterion. Those regularly missing out need to change their criterion.

My read on it is that Hine had great success early as he was one of the first to really focus on awareness and decision making and it was highly weighted in his criterion, but everyone else caught up in that regard and more recently, Hine missed the boat with pace regarding flankers and has too heavily weighted athleticism in talls. He needs to adjust his criterion - not throw out the idea of having a system to help make unbiased decisions..
A system means learning from mistakes... not evident
 

TW Sherrin

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You listed 3 Sicily, Howard and McGovern that are quality. If I were to run the same exercise for smalls each team would have at least 5. Collingwood have Noble, JT, Daicos, T Brown and Crisp selected post 50 and better than tripe like Chol and Nyoun. You’re wrong move on.

noble, thomas....that made me laugh
 

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