Roast Be brave with ball movement

Pollywaffle

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 2, 2008
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Alternative take on the static ball movement and absence of pressure:
Maybe,after proving they can win with a certain game style, and safely ensconced in the top four they have gone into holding pattern until finals, so counter plans cannot be devised by their ultimate opponents .
Perhaps this will be Scott’s master coaching ruse, and we are all falling for it..
 
Sep 15, 2007
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Don’t doubt his endeavour at all. And on the weekend he was far from our worst.

But I’m not sure he’s got enough actual ability to warrant a spot.
Endeavour clearly being confused with ability. 3 goals as a forward all year is pathetic. He isnt even a good tackler despite his endeavour. Never seen a worse season by a player who hasn't been dropped atleast once.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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Where i need to be
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Atkins is just the forward version of Ruggles

VFL battler who tries hard, puts in a few really good games but at the end of the day isn't good enough

just there to clog a list spot for a few years instead of developing a kid (cos playing too many kids might mess with Scott's H/A record)
I would take ruggles. He atleast played a couple of good games.
 

kingcod

Rookie
Jun 23, 2017
42
57
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Geelong
My suggested answer: we are losing the contested ball.
I agree. In the first half of the season we were winning contested ball through the middle and chaining possession from there to get clean inside 50. Since the bye ,for whatever reason we have been less effective in contested ball AND applying pressure to the opposition midfield. This coupled with our already slow and risk averse ball movement explains why we now struggle to score. The concern for me is post bye we have "managed" players at either end of the ground and not key midfielders enough- Duncan, Kelly, Guthrie and Danger. Now they seem to be struggling to run out games, we have lost our lead on the competition and can't afford to rest them.
 
Contested ball and ball movement are also related.

When you win contested ball you can typically release to players who are moving forward and when you win the weight of CPs the ball then spends more time in your half. Moving from half way to the goal line is much quicker and easier than moving it from deep in defence.

When you lose the weight of CPs the ball is going to spend more time in your back half. It’s then harder to move the ball inside 50. You actually have to accept being slower or take more risks. You get torn between those two undesirable options.
 
Nov 12, 2002
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Endeavour clearly being confused with ability. 3 goals as a forward all year is pathetic. He isnt even a good tackler despite his endeavour. Never seen a worse season by a player who hasn't been dropped atleast once.

Yeah there's a reason we don't have a statue of Tim Hargreaves outside the ground. He tried hard too.
 

ATSAM

Club Legend
Mar 6, 2009
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From todays Herald Sun- at least witty if not correct

We are Geelong

The strangest team of all

We are Geelong

We are often off the boil

We lose the game that we're supposed to win

At home or far away

Our banner is flying low

Down at Kardina Park
 
From todays Herald Sun- at least witty if not correct

We are Geelong

The strangest team of all

We are Geelong

We are often off the boil

We lose the game that we're supposed to win

At home or far away

Our banner is flying low

Down at Kardina Park

Looks like it was written by a Richmond supporter on BF.
 
Dec 10, 2003
58,427
66,178
Newtown
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Contested ball and ball movement are also related.

When you win contested ball you can typically release to players who are moving forward and when you win the weight of CPs the ball then spends more time in your half. Moving from half way to the goal line is much quicker and easier than moving it from deep in defence.

When you lose the weight of CPs the ball is going to spend more time in your back half. It’s then harder to move the ball inside 50. You actually have to accept being slower or take more risks. You get torn between those two undesirable options.

I know contested ball stats can be accumulated different ways ... do you have any idea of the particular type of contested stat that lets us down compared to the the first 13 games this year ?

For what its worth I agree there is a link between movement and the gaining of cp... I wonder however if there is also a strong link between our game plan ..that is supposedly a Haw WC poss type style... yet Haw often went without winning cp. What don't we do that they do when they win their games without winning contested ball?
 
I know contested ball stats can be accumulated different ways ... do you have any idea of the particular type of contested stat that lets us down compared to the the first 13 games this year ?

For what its worth I agree there is a link between movement and the gaining of cp... I wonder however if there is also a strong link between our game plan ..that is supposedly a Haw WC poss type style... yet Haw often went without winning cp. What don't we do that they do when they win their games without winning contested ball?
I know there are different components to CPs, as you say, but I think they’re the black box realm of Champion Data that us mere mortals never see.

I think that’s a good point about style being a factor too. I was more talking about the way Geelong wants to play. I think Geelong aims to get things on terms through winning CPs and the plan quickly unravels when that doesn’t happen. Other teams don’t rely so much on CPs and are more comfortable slingshotting from half back.
 

God Mode

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Mar 22, 2011
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I
Alternative take on the static ball movement and absence of pressure:
Maybe,after proving they can win with a certain game style, and safely ensconced in the top four they have gone into holding pattern until finals, so counter plans cannot be devised by their ultimate opponents .
Perhaps this will be Scott’s master coaching ruse, and we are all falling for it..
I thought of this as an explanation as well. It's unlikely, but certainly possible. I find it hard to buy the whole "gameplan has been worked out" schtick floating around. Even if that were the case we should still have beaten Freo/Hawks/Port on talent alone. It shows a lack of effort which is still a problem in itself but easier to rectify.
 

Landgraft

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 18, 2016
5,555
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I know there are different components to CPs, as you say, but I think they’re the black box realm of Champion Data that us mere mortals never see.

I think that’s a good point about style being a factor too. I was more talking about the way Geelong wants to play. I think Geelong aims to get things on terms through winning CPs and the plan quickly unravels when that doesn’t happen. Other teams don’t rely so much on CPs and are more comfortable slingshotting from half back.

You can bodge a better idea of the loose/ground ball game by subtracting contested marks and free kicks from contested possession totals.
 

Gogeelong

Premiership Player
Apr 14, 2006
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Our slow, risk averse, defensive game plan means we rarely break the opposition. (from another site). The opposition are always in the game and undo our good work with a quick run on, then we say we had control for most of the game.

This leads to a slow, unbalanced side, because of our coaches defensive mindset. We play too many defenders which includes our defensive forwards.

Just because a player is good does not mean that he forms part of our best team. Just because a player is liked does not mean you carry him week in week out.

At the very least the mix we have does not work so change it with a Constable. He may not run out the game but at least we have rotations to cover it a little. Compare this to playing a Blicavs in the ruck as the only ruckman and tiring hopelessly in the last quarter.

This even occurs when we go forward, because of playing too precautionary, we do not take your opportunities. A defensive game has merit when you play efficient attacking football when you get your chance but if you are unable to score you inevitable will loose. Hawkins is hot or cold, Sav is learning who else do we have? If they do not play well we loose. We looked so much more attacking before the bye.

Teams that play against us are always a chance. They throw caution to the wind and play attacking footy, with a small run on they undo all of our good work in a short space of time, which inevitably happens in a game. Then we say we dominated the game? We can see this coming!

I would like to play a more balanced attacking style. Speedy players like Cameron and Betts slice us to bits in the forward line. Yes defend but let's get our own Wojo's. We need speed and take the game on. We need coaches who also promote a balanced more attacking flair, who pick a balanced side and draft accordingly.
 

Spearman

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 15, 2017
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expatriated in East Asia
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Our slow, risk averse, defensive game plan means we rarely break the opposition. (from another site). The opposition are always in the game and undo our good work with a quick run on, then we say we had control for most of the game.

This leads to a slow, unbalanced side, because of our coaches defensive mindset. We play too many defenders which includes our defensive forwards.

Just because a player is good does not mean that he forms part of our best team. Just because a player is liked does not mean you carry him week in week out.

At the very least the mix we have does not work so change it with a Constable. He may not run out the game but at least we have rotations to cover it a little. Compare this to playing a Blicavs in the ruck as the only ruckman and tiring hopelessly in the last quarter.

This even occurs when we go forward, because of playing too precautionary, we do not take your opportunities. A defensive game has merit when you play efficient attacking football when you get your chance but if you are unable to score you inevitable will loose. Hawkins is hot or cold, Sav is learning who else do we have? If they do not play well we loose. We looked so much more attacking before the bye.

Teams that play against us are always a chance. They throw caution to the wind and play attacking footy, with a small run on they undo all of our good work in a short space of time, which inevitably happens in a game. Then we say we dominated the game? We can see this coming!

I would like to play a more balanced attacking style. Speedy players like Cameron and Betts slice us to bits in the forward line. Yes defend but let's get our own Wojo's. We need speed and take the game on. We need coaches who also promote a balanced more attacking flair, who pick a balanced side and draft accordingly.

quoted to show how much I like this, especially bolded. Being a 'club' is one thing, being a ruthless sports team is another. The balance between the two needs to edge toward the tougher side. A senior player shouldn't get played just because they are senior if it's out of position.

Bonus IMO: definitely urge some of the back half guys to do some Wojos. We usually look more dangerous when Clark or one of the other younger guys has a go. Some of the others, who are reputed to be charger, need to take that option more often. Coaches please don't discourage it.
 

Moley Russels Wart

Cancelled
Oct 24, 2012
895
1,509
AFL Club
Geelong
Our slow, risk averse, defensive game plan means we rarely break the opposition. (from another site). The opposition are always in the game and undo our good work with a quick run on, then we say we had control for most of the game.

This leads to a slow, unbalanced side, because of our coaches defensive mindset. We play too many defenders which includes our defensive forwards.

Just because a player is good does not mean that he forms part of our best team. Just because a player is liked does not mean you carry him week in week out.

At the very least the mix we have does not work so change it with a Constable. He may not run out the game but at least we have rotations to cover it a little. Compare this to playing a Blicavs in the ruck as the only ruckman and tiring hopelessly in the last quarter.

This even occurs when we go forward, because of playing too precautionary, we do not take your opportunities. A defensive game has merit when you play efficient attacking football when you get your chance but if you are unable to score you inevitable will loose. Hawkins is hot or cold, Sav is learning who else do we have? If they do not play well we loose. We looked so much more attacking before the bye.

Teams that play against us are always a chance. They throw caution to the wind and play attacking footy, with a small run on they undo all of our good work in a short space of time, which inevitably happens in a game. Then we say we dominated the game? We can see this coming!

I would like to play a more balanced attacking style. Speedy players like Cameron and Betts slice us to bits in the forward line. Yes defend but let's get our own Wojo's. We need speed and take the game on. We need coaches who also promote a balanced more attacking flair, who pick a balanced side and draft accordingly.


Are you describing Ross Lyon GF sides??
 
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