Rumour Beams coming on heavy, hot and strong (Beams & picks 41 & 44 for 18, 56, COL's 2019 1st rd)

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carnaroys08

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In addition to this, Mitch is a better all rounder than Beams. He also inspires the rest of the team to be rougher in their approach to the contest. Would like to see him in some sort of coaching role because of that, if he can teach that to others.
Yes, a Lions B&F winner with different talents to Beams.
I think the toughness/boldness thing cant really be taught though. IMO this his aspect of the game is a bit like raising kids. They do what they see, not what they're told haaa. Mitch certainly is a top role model in this area; same as Zorko who punches above his size & Matt (what a revelation) Eagles our STRONGMAN are.
We were actually hoping he would receive a 2 year deal. His "numbers" (the ones we can see) are still really good. This guy has a family and if he's not in our best 22 in 2020, he would be great in setting an example to and protecting, the young developing players in the NEAFL. I think teams need that sort of a bloke, especially young teams, he's earned it if he wanted it.
 
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carnaroys08

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I think the side deal is that we don’t bid on Isaac Quaynor with pick 18!

Would that not be Draft tampering? Simply I don't like the Lions doing deals with Collingwood full stop. In historical deals, they have done to us what we did to them 2002 & 2003.
 

carnaroys08

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Are we talking footy players or washing machines?

I prefer top loaders.

Someone take the bait, someone take the bait....!

Yeah, front loaders just don't do it for me either. I can't understand how you can properly clean clothes with so little water and you can't throw in extras after the cycle starts :eek:
 
Had a few bevies so this might not make much sense but Mitch is worth so much more than beams. The extra 10% that makes a team special is the player buy in and Mitch has bought in totally. I believe Dayne did buy in until his dad died and then his world shifted and his buy in ceased. It was false value. The ability of our coaches to determine the genuine buy in is so important. Looking back in a few years we might just find that beams has been a pivotal learning opportunity for our management team and we are better for it.
 

lioninthesand

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Feb 22, 2016
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As I said earlier, contracts still work. I know I would be very surprised if a player broke their contract with us unless there was exceptional circumstances. If contracts didn't work, half our young team would be flying around the country, looking at options, taking tours of clubs and being offered big deals to move home.

Theres alot of myth peddling and fear mongering at this time of year. Fact is 97% of contracted players honoured their contracts while a small percentage chose to move. And clubs hold the whip hand in negotiations.

Also.. players get the freedom to move in contract and that is balanced by the fact that even if a player honours their contract the club still controls their trade when they leave.. which is plainly ridiculous if you think about it. Like with Aish wanting to leave, we had the option to force someone, with no employment contract, into a chook lottery on their future (preseason draft) if we saw fit.

Theres swings and round abouts. We are going to have to come to terms with it, this year was only the beginning. Player movement is here to stay and you win some and you lose some.

I think we actually seek out contracted players as part of our stratagy so as to avoid a price war or FA bidding.. even if it means we pay overs.

The last thing we should be doing is putting bandaid rules, financial penalty, rules around 'what constitutes a fair reason to leave'.. or anything like that.

The ONLY thing id look at it something like an AFL version of 'bird rights' in the NBA - perhaps where teams can add a rubber stamped 10% to every contract (outside the cap) for players who were drafted to that team. So loyalty becomes monetary too, you could say.. "i earnt an extra $700k over my career for being a one club player' and teams may have an extra $800k available in the cap if they have 7-8 lomg term, loyal, drafted players who remain on their list so there is incentive there for both parties.
 
Most of that post is the biggest load of BS. Yep, Caroline Wilson and Robinson got their stories wrong.:rolleyes:

Beams out and out lied to people at the club, double sealed, went behind the club’s back, told more BS at the BnF, undermined the club by stating three quarters of the way through trade period he wanted out; oh and it has to be to Collingwood only, so **** him, the guy is a selfish liar and only cares about himself irrespective of the detriment it causes other, all the while playing the victim card.

Spare me the sob story of what a great story it is that football allows him to return to Collingwood. After what our club did for that campaigner and this is the thanks we get, not forgetting his heart has always been with Collingwood, give me a break. I ain’t buying a percent of your BS post.

This is your board, for you to post your opinions, I was simply posting mine.

There are plenty of Pies supporters who hold the same views as yours Dylan.

Some have an image of Beams in his volcano lair stroking a white cat.

I just see a bloke whose Dad was sick, who felt he needed to be with him and family while he still had the time......and then go back to his former life once he was gone.

I can understand the feeling of betrayal, we all get emotionally invested in our clubs.
 
May 3, 2005
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As I said earlier, contracts still work. I know I would be very surprised if a player broke their contract with us unless there was exceptional circumstances. If contracts didn't work, half our young team would be flying around the country, looking at options, taking tours of clubs and being offered big deals to move home.

Theres alot of myth peddling and fear mongering at this time of year. Fact is 97% of contracted players honoured their contracts while a small percentage chose to move. And clubs hold the whip hand in negotiations.

Also.. players get the freedom to move in contract and that is balanced by the fact that even if a player honours their contract the club still controls their trade when they leave.. which is plainly ridiculous if you think about it. Like with Aish wanting to leave, we had the option to force someone, with no employment contract, into a chook lottery on their future (preseason draft) if we saw fit.

Theres swings and round abouts. We are going to have to come to terms with it, this year was only the beginning. Player movement is here to stay and you win some and you lose some.

I think we actually seek out contracted players as part of our stratagy so as to avoid a price war or FA bidding.. even if it means we pay overs.

The last thing we should be doing is putting bandaid rules, financial penalty, rules around 'what constitutes a fair reason to leave'.. or anything like that.

The ONLY thing id look at it something like an AFL version of 'bird rights' in the NBA - perhaps where teams can add a rubber stamped 10% to every contract (outside the cap) for players who were drafted to that team. So loyalty becomes monetary too, you could say.. "i earnt an extra $700k over my career for being a one club player' and teams may have an extra $800k available in the cap if they have 7-8 lomg term, loyal, drafted players who remain on their list so there is incentive there for both parties.

Your last suggestion is basically an expansion of the old AFL veterans list rules but making it apply to every drafted instead of players who have been abthe club for 10 years or so.

Unfortunately, it’s another example IMO of an NBA or NFL type rule that wouldn’t work well in our code.

Think about the geographic origins of most of the players in the AFL, the vast majority are from heartland areas. Victorian clubs have the highest proportion of locals on their list, then WA and the SA clubs, then the NSW and QLD clubs trailing far, far behind.

Your plan is effectively, over time, going to reward clubs for having less players go home by giving them more cap space which they can then use to poach interstate players who do want to come home. Basically COLA for the already advantaged. A good example of how a policy with the best intentions can have dangerous side effects.
 

Lazza16

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Nathan Brown on Ch9 thinks Magpies did much better than us in the draft coz they got Beams(top 5) p layer and Ruffhead and we only got Neale who rarely hits a target . Never liked that smug mug.
 

Dylan12

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Nathan Brown on Ch9 thinks Magpies did much better than us in the draft coz they got Beams(top 5) p layer and Ruffhead and we only got Neale who rarely hits a target . Never liked that smug mug.
Nathan Brown is a stick up prick and nothing but a pandering lackey to the big Melbourne club’s without an original thought that appeals solely to the minions in the burbs.

Another one of these ex-player flogs that is weak and really has no business being in the media, but yet typifies how second rate the AFL media are.

You have to laugh at this smug campaigner; my fiancé and I were at some function a few years back and she is talking to Brown’s wife, I had no idea who she was, and anyways, Brown comes over and starts going on about an au pair they have and how the au pair does this and the au pair does that. Honestly, he was big noting himself and gloating about having an au pair etc etc, but I’ll never forget what a pretentious campaigner thistle douche is, a total w***er.
 
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Nathan Brown on Ch9 thinks Magpies did much better than us in the draft coz they got Beams(top 5) p layer and Ruffhead and we only got Neale who rarely hits a target . Never liked that smug mug.

Yep, what a moronic opinion. For one, Beams DE this year left a lot to be desired. He absolutely nailed some kicks when he had time and space but butchered a lot around the coalface.

One of Neale's biggest strengths is not only his ability to win the ball, but to dispose of the ball efficiently. His DE is sky high for an inside mid but even taking away the 'DE' and just plain watching Neale play (which I admit, up until we had interest in drafting him I hadn't done all that much of. Thank God for replays!) It is incredible watching him distribute the pill. His positioning around the contest is really intelligent and you can tell he looks at situations 2, 3, 4 steps ahead. Very impressive player.
 

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Lazza16

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Nathan Brown is a stick up prick and nothing but a pandering lackey to the big Melbourne club’s without an original thought that appeals solely to the minions in the burbs.

Another one of these ex-player flogs that is weak and really has no business being in the media, but yet typifies how second rate the AFL media are.

You have to laugh at this smug campaigner; my fiancé and I were at some function a few years back and she is talking to Brown’s wife, I had no idea who she was, and anyways, Brown comes over and starts going on about an au pair they have and how the au pair does this and the au pair does that. Honestly, he was big noting himself and gloating about having an au pair etc etc, but I’ll never forget what a pretentious campaigner thistle douche is, a total w***er.
I am glad u got that n off ur chest Dylan.
 
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Nathan Brown on Ch9 thinks Magpies did much better than us in the draft coz they got Beams(top 5) p layer and Ruffhead and we only got Neale who rarely hits a target . Never liked that smug mug.

Maybe...The Pies failed at their premiership chance... Beams and Roughy are great additions..as is Lynch at the Tigers and May at Melbourne...
We are still a work in progress...Neale adds to our midfield and with Cameron back we will be a lot quicker than we were last year...My Interest will be getting Adams working in tandem with Andrews both have great closing speed...
 
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love how s soon as Beams is not a Lion anymore, everyone can see his faults. Can't critique a player when a Lion though :rolleyes: **** this board sometimes.


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love how s soon as Beams is not a Lion anymore, everyone can see his faults. Can't critique a player when a Lion though :rolleyes: **** this board sometimes.

Works the same way on Collingwood board. Before the trade he was too old, past his best, injury prone and not worth it.

Post trade they won the whole period and Beams will single handedly get them a premiership.
 

Fonzeno1

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There's plenty of ways to leverage your picks to suit academy bids. You could have downgraded your 18 and even gained more points (you almost always gain points on a pick downgrade, you easily could have received two picks in the 20's for it) for bidding, you could have traded for points and a 2019 pick, you could have gone up the draft, gaining a super talent in the 2018 draft AND your academy player and then copping the points deficit.

To the bolded bit, that flexibility is lost somewhat as you can only take the same amount of draft picks into the draft as you have list spots.

In short, to get beams, you've opened yourself up to a position where you have a points deficit on a really early bid, a lost first round talent on a late bid and a break even trade on a bid where you expect him to go. If things change, you're in a fair bit of trouble.

Ignorant to imply that 18 had no value to you. It did, and you chose to trade beams for two first rounders which was mitigated by a bidding situation. You're not immune to the risks of that all going to s**t if somebody bids on your academy players earlier or later than you expected though.
I never said it had no value
There's plenty of ways to leverage your picks to suit academy bids. You could have downgraded your 18 and even gained more points (you almost always gain points on a pick downgrade, you easily could have received two picks in the 20's for it) for bidding, you could have traded for points and a 2019 pick, you could have gone up the draft, gaining a super talent in the 2018 draft AND your academy player and then copping the points deficit.

To the bolded bit, that flexibility is lost somewhat as you can only take the same amount of draft picks into the draft as you have list spots.

In short, to get beams, you've opened yourself up to a position where you have a points deficit on a really early bid, a lost first round talent on a late bid and a break even trade on a bid where you expect him to go. If things change, you're in a fair bit of trouble.

Ignorant to imply that 18 had no value to you. It did, and you chose to trade beams for two first rounders which was mitigated by a bidding situation. You're not immune to the risks of that all going to s**t if somebody bids on your academy players earlier or later than you expected though.
I never said it was worth nothing but it was worth close to nothing when Quaynor and Kelly are the targets for 2018. While what you say is usually true what you haven't taken into account is that because we packaged next year's first rounder we now have a points deficit limit of 738 points. Meaning we would never have had the scope to use pick 18 on someone else and gain Quaynor and Kelly.
At this stage it's expected Quaynor will receive a bid at 12 from Geelong but that aside even a second round bid on one and a fourth round on the other makes it unachievable.
 

Fonzeno1

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If Quaynor is bid on after 18, you can definitely make the case that Collingwood gave away another first round talent. Clubs would happily wear a deficit in the second or third round in future years to get that extra high draft talent in.

Richmond did a pick swap deal last year to squeeze maximum value by positioning their first pick right before third father son bid was expected. One example of many.

Brisbane fans have been dealing with the academy process longer than Pies fans. We get how it works.

There is certainly merit in the swap the Pies did. I predicted it days before it happened, but there is certainly a price that was paid, as you would expect to get a player like Beams.
The only thing with that is we gained a points deficit limit of 738 points by using our 2019 first rounder in the deal. We don't have the points to get another first rounder and match 2 other bids. We were never going to offer enough to any other club to upgrade to pick 10 or 11 either.
Both clubs had a win out of the deal but pick 18 didn't hold the same value for Collingwood as it usually would. I just thought the poster I replied to was fairly abrasive talking about himself in the third person and saying all Collingwood supporter's are nuffies.
 
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love how s soon as Beams is not a Lion anymore, everyone can see his faults. Can't critique a player when a Lion though :rolleyes: **** this board sometimes.

Yeah but if he comes and and says he was always a Pie at heart, why can't we now come out and reckon he was never any bloody good anyway?:think:;)
 
I never said it had no value

I never said it was worth nothing but it was worth close to nothing when Quaynor and Kelly are the targets for 2018. While what you say is usually true what you haven't taken into account is that because we packaged next year's first rounder we now have a points deficit limit of 738 points. Meaning we would never have had the scope to use pick 18 on someone else and gain Quaynor and Kelly.
At this stage it's expected Quaynor will receive a bid at 12 from Geelong but that aside even a second round bid on one and a fourth round on the other makes it unachievable.

You intially offered 18 and a second rounder so it's disingenuous to use the fact that you traded next year's first to justify why this year's has little value to you.

Your other option was to not trade for beams, keep your 2019 first and then do what I described above.

You traded two first rounders for beams. No groupthinking that away

The only thing with that is we gained a points deficit limit of 738 points by using our 2019 first rounder in the deal. We don't have the points to get another first rounder and match 2 other bids. We were never going to offer enough to any other club to upgrade to pick 10 or 11 either.
Both clubs had a win out of the deal but pick 18 didn't hold the same value for Collingwood as it usually would. I just thought the poster I replied to was fairly abrasive talking about himself in the third person and saying all Collingwood supporter's are nuffies.

What's wrong with dodongo talking about himself in third person?
 

Fonzeno1

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You intially offered 18 and a second rounder so it's disingenuous to use the fact that you traded next year's first to justify why this year's has little value to you.

Your other option was to not trade for beams, keep your 2019 first and then do what I described above.

You traded two first rounders for beams. No groupthinking that away



What's wrong with dodongo talking about himself in third person?
Still would have given us a points deficit limit of around 1200 with pick 18 being worth 985 still wouldn't have been able to squeeze both of the others in. We'll see on draft night I guess.
There's nothing wrong with talking about yourself in the third person but if you're gonna give someone a whack you should know what you're talking about first.
 
Still would have given us a points deficit limit of around 1200 with pick 18 being worth 985 still wouldn't have been able to squeeze both of the others in. We'll see on draft night I guess.
There's nothing wrong with talking about yourself in the third person but if you're gonna give someone a whack you should know what you're talking about first.

It's on our own board mate. If you're going to get upset over every anti Collingwood post on here you're going to be very busy.

I'd actually contest that you don't know what you're talking about given your limited understanding of the bidding system.
 
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