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deltablues

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Addiction is an escape tool. Its a way to forgot your problems because you can funnel all your efforts into it. Drugs, gambling, video games, all these things can become addictive because they give you three things: 1) Pleasure, 2) A feeling of control and 3) Purpose.

Self indulgence is what people see when other people delve into these things. "Oh, hes just self indulging himself in his habits".

When you see a Footballer gambling you think hes just self indulging himself with his money. In reality, gambling is a way for them to try and cope with the pressures of their jobs: Perform well on the field or you dont get paid. Pretty simple. Its like selling cars, dont sell enough this month? Say cya to your commission income.
An escape tool is self-indulgence. Self-indulgence is a personal choice - that is my point. It leads to gambling, drugs etc.

However, many argue that gambling etc is a disease/mental illness. That line of argument provides a get-out of-jail card for those who seek to avoid personal responsibility for their own behavior, aided and abetted by those folk whose job security is dependent on characterizing common human frailty/failings as some kind of a medical issue.
 

iBeng

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An escape tool is self-indulgence. Self-indulgence is a personal choice - that is my point. It leads to gambling, drugs etc.

However, many argue that gambling etc is a disease/mental illness. That line of argument provides a get-out of-jail card for those who seek to avoid personal responsibility for their own behavior, aided and abetted by those folk whose job security is dependent on characterizing common human frailty/failings as some kind of a medical issue.
I dont see it as a get out of jail card. As someone who hasnt struggled with addiction its easy to see it that way.

It would be akin to say, using anger as a get out of jail card, when the anger is usually linked to a difficulty with handling emotions and situations due to childhood trauma.
 

Hollow Knight

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An escape tool is self-indulgence. Self-indulgence is a personal choice - that is my point. It leads to gambling, drugs etc.

However, many argue that gambling etc is a disease/mental illness. That line of argument provides a get-out of-jail card for those who seek to avoid personal responsibility for their own behavior, aided and abetted by those folk whose job security is dependent on characterizing common human frailty/failings as some kind of a medical issue.
In your opinion...
 

deltablues

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I dont see it as a get out of jail card. As someone who hasnt struggled with addiction its easy to see it that way.

It would be akin to say, using anger as a get out of jail card, when the anger is usually linked to a difficulty with handling emotions and situations due to childhood trauma.
You are equating addiction to anger, then saying that anger is due to childhood trauma. With absolutely zero evidence of causation.

Are you a social worker?
 

iBeng

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You are equating addiction to anger, then saying that anger is due to childhood trauma. With absolutely zero evidence of causation.

Are you a social worker?
Nope just someone who has had both anger issues and addiction issues.

I can trace both to reasons other than "I want attention and a get out of jail card for just being an asshole".
 

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iBeng

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Cool. Individual anecdotes are essentially useless though.
Ive seen friends, family and other people Ive met in life go through similar things.

Its a lot to do with nurture over nature. A lot of the time people are the product of their environments. It sounds like a bit of a cop out and certainly appears to be a way to excuse people who are genuinely assholes, but events shape what we become. Its what makes us who we are. Its logical for them to have a bearing on how we develop certain aspects of our life, including addiction to escape trauma, anger to express emotion.
 

deltablues

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Nope just someone who has had both anger issues and addiction issues.

I can trace both to reasons other than "I want attention and a get out of jail card for just being an asshole".
OK, so you are talking about yourself. Accordingly I can understand why you are danclng around the issue.

And just for the record, I don't consider someone who lacks personal responsibility an "asshole". I would, instead, hope that they learn a lesson before it is too late.
 

iBeng

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OK, so you are talking about yourself. Accordingly I can understand why you are danclng around the issue.

And just for the record, I don't consider someone who lacks personal responsibility an "asshole". I would, instead, hope that they learn a lesson before it is too late.
You are broadly suggesting people use the link between addiction and mental illness as an excuse for their struggles, correct?

If someone has an addiction and they take time off to deal with it and its labeled as mental health you are saying they are using that as a get out of jail card because really, they just like to blow money for s**ts and giggles.

Because thats how you come across.
 

deltablues

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You are broadly suggesting people use the link between addiction and mental illness as an excuse for their struggles, correct?

If someone has an addiction and they take time off to deal with it and its labeled as mental health you are saying they are using that as a get out of jail card because really, they just like to blow money for s**ts and giggles.

Because thats how you come across.
Incorrect. I have not said that at all.

Improve your text comprehension.
 

iBeng

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An escape tool is self-indulgence. Self-indulgence is a personal choice - that is my point. It leads to gambling, drugs etc.

However, many argue that gambling etc is a disease/mental illness. That line of argument provides a get-out of-jail card for those who seek to avoid personal responsibility for their own behavior, aided and abetted by those folk whose job security is dependent on characterizing common human frailty/failings as some kind of a medical issue.
So is your stance:

1) Addiction is a self inflicted issue and people should sort themselves out
2) Addiction is a coping mechanism to deal with personal trauma (Mental health)
3) Addiction is a good get out of jail card to be used in conjunction with mental health
 

deltablues

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So is your stance:

1) Addiction is a self inflicted issue and people should sort themselves out
2) Addiction is a coping mechanism to deal with personal trauma (Mental health)
3) Addiction is a good get out of jail card to be used in conjunction with mental health
No, that is not my "stance", but your self-serving interpretation of what I have said - which was about personal responsibility and the consequences of the lack of it.

You have admitted that you have had anger and addiction issues, so I can understand to some extent your inability to objectively process my comments.

What I've said is clear. If you wish to grind your axe, then so be it.
 

iBeng

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No, that is not my "stance", but your self-serving interpretation of what I have said - which was about personal responsibility and the consequences of the lack of it.

You have admitted that you have had anger and addiction issues, so I can understand to some extent your inability to objectively process my comments.

What I've said is clear. If you wish to grind your axe, then so be it.
You're entitled to your opinion but Im concerned you are painting everyone with the same brush here. There will always be individuals that take advantage of things, and like you say, claiming mental health when really they are just terrible human beings. But thats where benefit of the doubt comes into play, otherwise you have to take the other extreme and not accept any situations as a legitimate mental health concern.
 

Viceregal

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Everyone understands that a person who was abused as a child has a greater chance of abusing their own children in turn.

Most folks would nevertheless expect them to do whatever they can *not* to continue the cycle and, if they do abuse, would accept that they were responsible for the actions that they did.
 

iBeng

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Everyone understands that a person who was abused as a child has a greater chance of abusing their own children in turn.

Most folks would nevertheless expect them to do whatever they can *not* to continue the cycle and, if they do abuse, would accept that they were responsible for the actions that they did.
Of course, and I wouldnt want to excuse people who do such things because it was done to them, free will and all that. But it is a factor in normalising it for them and twisting their social patterns to thinking its acceptable. Nature vs Nurture.
 

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