Ben Cousins...star status?

[Visro]

Ok, call me a biased WC fan but I really think that the captaincy has benefited Cousins and he is knocking on the door for "star" class. I noticed a lot of you have been dismissing him as a chance for the Brownlow and the All Australian team. Well here are his stats so far (getting tagged each game as well) this season and where his stats place him in comparison to others:

Rd #, Opposition, Disposals, Score contribution

1, Geelong, 19, 0.1
2, Sydney, 38, 0.3
3, St Kilda, 30, 0.1
4, Fremantle, 28, 2.0
5, Richmond, 27, 0.0
6, Essendon, 9, 0.0 (injured midway through game)
7, Port Adelaide, 21, 0.0
8, Hawthorn, 25, 1.0
9, Western Bulldogs, 31, 2.0
10, Carlton, 23, 0.0
11, Brisbane, 30, 0.0
12, Collingwood, 34, 3.0
13, Melbourne, 37, 1.0

For an average of 27 disposals per game and a total of 9 goals which is a weakness of his game in that he does not kick the goals when given the oppurtunity. In league leaders he features in:

3rd in disposals
2nd in handballs
12th in longkicks
3rd in clearances
1st in gathers
15th in hardball gets
5th in looseball gets
3rd in first possesions
1st in handball received
4th in frees for (is this good or bad?)

He is obviously one of the best players in the league but do you think he is in the "star" class yet and if not, what does he have to do to get there? Personally I think he is borderline and should make the all australian team. What does everyone else think?

Cheers Vis

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by Visro
He is obviously one of the best players in the league but do you think he is in the "star" class yet and if not, what does he have to do to get there? Personally I think he is borderline and should make the all australian team. What does everyone else think?

I agree Visro... he is juuuuuuuuuust about there, but an All-Australian selection would confirm his star status.

 

[PiesPremiers]

yep, he is a champion...

top 10 for sure...

 

[Chris_23]

You don't need to convince me Visro, i reckon he's a superstar.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Cuz

I am also a biased WCE fan, but cannot give him champion status...........just yet.

I was disappointed with some of his performances earlier in the season when he didn't seem to be very damaging with his possessions. We did over-possess a bit and a handball, followed by a handball receive, followed by a kick to the opposition was not much chop. I think he took a few games to get used to being captain and probably missed having injured Tommy alongside him when he had expected co-captain support.

However, the last few games have been sensational and he has virtually carried the midfield single-handed (apart from Michael Gardiner).

He is in my All Australian team for 2001 (see post earlier today) and assuming he can avoid injury (a first for a good WCE player in living memory) could go on to be one of the best players ever at our club.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Re: Re: Ben Cousins...star status?

Originally posted by Darky


I agree Visro... he is juuuuuuuuuust about there, but an All-Australian selection would confirm his star status.

He's already been All Australian twice, does that qualify him for superstar status?

On a different note, what is the definition of a superstar? And who in the AFL would be rated as one?

 

[McKenna for PM]

Re: Re: Re: Ben Cousins...star status?

Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes

And who in the AFL would be rated as one?

Guy McKenna - number one.

He provides the benchmark, whereby maximum star status is denoted at 100 McKennas. I'd currently rate Cousins at 70 McKennas. Maybe a few less goals and more time on the half-back line and he might be able to raise himself to eighty or possibly even 85 McKennas....

What an achievement that would be.

 

[jod23]

Hahah the Cousins - Star topic rears its ugly head again. Vis dont know where you were when we have had huge discussions about this in the past.

Theres no doubt in my mind that he is one of the best players in the competition and would waltz into any side in the AFL. Already twice AA and is having a steller season.

Darky and I have gone great lengths to argue about this and we decided on a deal. If Cousins makes AA this year he is a star, i already think he is one but i'll go along with the deal as it is looking like a certainty right now.

 

[Visro]

Originally posted by jod23
Darky and I have gone great lengths to argue about this and we decided on a deal. If Cousins makes AA this year he is a star, i already think he is one but i'll go along with the deal as it is looking like a certainty right now.

And if he doesn't? Cousins should make all australian this year but always be prepared for the biased eastern states selectors!

Vis

 

[coxon]

star yes.... super star ?? no way...

i think in the AFL, the only ones that can be called 'superstars' are:

Carey
Hird
Kouta
Buckley
Lloyd

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by jod23


Already twice AA

LOL, I didn't know Cuzz had a drinking problem.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Originally posted by coxon
star yes.... super star ?? no way...

i think in the AFL, the only ones that can be called 'superstars' are:

Carey
Hird
Kouta
Buckley
Lloyd

I think thats going a bit far. Voss, Kemp, Jarmen and Bradley would fall into that category. And if you use the argument that they're all past their best, so is Carey.

 

[coxon]

well, i was going to add Voss and Mcleod & Jarman in there...
but then i realised the post was re 'superstars', not necessarily 'champions'..

superstars.. the ones the fans pay to see, the ones that dominate highlight reels, dominate games.. etc etc...

i agree there are many top class, great players... but in my opinion, those 5 i listed before are truly SUPERstars of the game..

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Ahh yes, it all comes back to opinion and definition.

There's so many names these players can be categorised into, theres Good, Great, Star, Superstar, Champion, Legend, or whatever. And without a clear-cut definition of each one we cannot say this player is not in this or that category because of this.

But i would agree with your list of Hird, Kouta, Buckley and Lloyd, but i would exclude Carey as a current champion and replace him with Cousins.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Cousins just collected 36 touches in a losing side.

He's on his way to superstar status.

 

[Grendel]

Maybe a few were to hard on him earlier in the season when he was newly appointed Captain. But from what ive seen since (not much really) and read (a lot more) he really seems to have grown into the role (reads a whole lot like a certain Crawford circa 1999).

If thats not a good indicator that the kids (and he is still a kid imho) is heading towards the elite then id like to know what is.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by Grendel
Maybe a few were to hard on him earlier in the season when he was newly appointed Captain. But from what ive seen since (not much really) and read (a lot more) he really seems to have grown into the role (reads a whole lot like a certain Crawford circa 1999).

If thats not a good indicator that the kids (and he is still a kid imho) is heading towards the elite then id like to know what is.

Damn Skippy.

 

[aqua]

Originally posted by coxon
star yes.... super star ?? no way...

i think in the AFL, the only ones that can be called 'superstars' are:

Carey
Hird
Kouta
Buckley
Lloyd

Oooh gee what a well rounded list. What team do you go for by chance? Why don't you throw in Misiti and maybe even Adam Switala? Sure, he's young - but he's playing for the right team so well assume he'll be a superstar too eh?

 

[mantis]

Originally posted by aqua


Oooh gee what a well rounded list. What team do you go for by chance? Why don't you throw in Misiti and maybe even Adam Switala? Sure, he's young - but he's playing for the right team so well assume he'll be a superstar too eh?

I ask you the same question, who do you go for?

 

[jod23]

Lloyd is no superstar he is just a consistent forward who kicks a lot of goals. He can be stopped and taken out of a game and often he gets his 3 or 4 when the match has already been won. Sure in a few years he will be but right now...no.

 

[mantis]

Jod, Jod, Jod,
This coming from a person that said they would rather have a full forward with a sense of humour & a nice personality, than one who was boring but kicked more goals.
Remeber saying that.?

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by mantis
Jod, Jod, Jod,
This coming from a person that said they would rather have a full forward with a sense of humour & a nice personality, than one who was boring but kicked more goals.
Remeber saying that.?

I never said that, i said i would rather have Scotty Cummings than Matthew Lloyd. Those attributes happen to be a part of the two players. Lloyd is boring, Cummings is funny and a damn nice guy.

I notice you didnt challenge me about Lloyds superstar status, fair to say he aint one. Star yes, superstar no.

 

[Grendel]

Right now, theres only one bloke in the league that could claim superstar status, Carey.

Hird, will probably get there, but 3,4 outstanding seasons do not a superstar make. Lloyd to may make it, but its still way to early.

Bucks, well star yes, superstar? Hmmm.

Btw, id define superstar as an all time great, so Careys the only one that i can personally say deserves that title.