Player Watch Ben Crocker

domus

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Mar 31, 2008
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I’ll rewatch the game, I’ve seen it a few times back in the day but can’t remember the specific passage or play. Shall keep an eye out for it.

I do remember the Bell game at the G but that didn’t meet the rest of your description. That one was diabolical.
25:14 you will see the incident unfold.
 

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TheGreatGrundy

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Beautifully said as always.
Not really. But I do feel for players like Crocker who already have to deal with major off-field difficulties as well as cope with ego deflating abuse online. We all know that later draft picks are a bit of a gamble, which is why we often have the likes of Oxley, Madgen or Crocker making up the numbers when our AFL team is heavily depleted by injury.

Josh Fraser may have shirked a contest or two, but he did not ask to be the number 1 draft pick, and was ultimately unsuited to the ruck role he was forced to play for most of his career. He was subjected to some very hurtful comments during his time in the game, though he was basically a decent, intelligent guy. You need to develop a thick skin to play AFL for as long as Fraser but always be regarded as a bit of a failure by supporters of the club for which you play.
 

Timmy from Thomastown

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Not really. But I do feel for players like Crocker who already have to deal with major off-field difficulties as well as cope with ego deflating abuse online. We all know that later draft picks are a bit of a gamble, which is why we often have the likes of Oxley, Madgen or Crocker making up the numbers when our AFL team is heavily depleted by injury.

Josh Fraser may have shirked a contest or two, but he did not ask to be the number 1 draft pick, and was ultimately unsuited to the ruck role he was forced to play for most of his career. He was subjected to some very hurtful comments during his time in the game, though he was basically a decent, intelligent guy. You need to develop a thick skin to play AFL for as long as Fraser but always be regarded as a bit of a failure by supporters of the club for which you play.
Totally agree

Its pretty disgraceful 8 years after the event for a poster to come on her and cherry pick one incident in Frasers 200 game career that may or may not have been as good an effort as it could have been. (As to the effort....if you arent close enough to lay a tackle sometimes all you have left is the old throw the arm out trick and hope it works). Theres been some really embarrassingly poor posts today. Not that its unusual in itself...standards are dropping (and thats from a low base).
 

Saintly Viewed

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I'm in the boat that Ben having another year is fine.

Yes he's not a star; and he is in that "depth" group.

However, you'd think he's not an expensive player cap wise.

Other aspects is he does bring a verve and personality to the playing group and I understand very popular in the group. Of course that's not a ticket to staying on the list but if its a line ball decision then it certainly can't hurt.

One other thing, he has had an exceptionally tough year family wise, and again that's not a ticket to stay but maybe just maybe it's a factor in a line ball decision.

So many things come into list decisions.

At least Ben Crocker has played Senior football and for us; dare say many thousands and thousands with All their talents and dreams and self achievement have not played even one game.

Tough gig.
 
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BringouttheGimp

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Ever since I semi discovered that there is a huge chance that players and other club personnel read posts on these forums, I have changed my views on what is acceptable comment on players.

The club drafts a player then hopes he will perform at a level that will allow him to be a useful AFL player. If the player does not achieve the anticipated level, it is not the player's fault but an error of judgement by the recruiters. Calling someone '****en useless' etc is simply not fair.

Admittedly, some players like Fasolo open themselves up to criticism with their lackadaisical approach and strong rumours of defection. Nevertheless, as a general rule, opinions should be tempered by reality and respect. The player is ultimately playing for the black and white and deserves to be objectively assessed rather than subjected to an emotive reaction in a game thread.
Does the club have any idea I've taken the bf poster of the mth award home an unprecedented any of 3 times this season re?
 
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TheGreatGrundy

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Totally agree

Its pretty disgraceful 8 years after the event for a poster to come on her and cherry pick one incident in Frasers 200 game career that may or may not have been as good an effort as it could have been. (As to the effort....if you arent close enough to lay a tackle sometimes all you have left is the old throw the arm out trick and hope it works). Theres been some really embarrassingly poor posts today. Not that its unusual in itself...standards are dropping (and thats from a low base).
Yeah I viewed the incident a few times, and could see that given the context of the level scoreline, Fraser was probably meant to have put his body on the line in a head on contest. But really, if that is the worst of his shirks in a long playing career, I think he is being unfairly judged. I expected to see him deliberately sidestepping a physical contest, but I think he just figured he could better influence the outcome of it by staying on his feet. In any case, I am not going to judge his courage on one incident in which the player's true intentions are not sufficiently clear.
 

Baird

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Against Melbourne around 2010, I think. The game ended up being a draw. Ball bouncing along ground in the middle of the G -A demon mid, charging at it full bore, scores level, minute or two remaining, Josh reaches in with one arm rather then throw himself at the pill. It is burned into my skull. I remember him being outmarked by Peter Bell in another game at the G. Josh was a talented footballer and played some wonderful games for us, but he shirked the contest on too many occasions , especially for a big bloke.


Incident around 25:14 mark
that's embarrassing
 

TheGreatGrundy

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that's embarrassing
Being outmarked by Peter Bell was much more embarrassing. That I do recall. He used ro get pushed around in the ruck as well because he just didn't have the bulk and body strength to match his height. But in retrospect Pavlich was the obvious number 1 draft pick not Josh. Too much expectation was placed on him particularly at a club with no genuine ruckman.
 

Timmy from Thomastown

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Being outmarked by Peter Bell was much more embarrassing. That I do recall. He used ro get pushed around in the ruck as well because he just didn't have the bulk and body strength to match his height. But in retrospect Pavlich was the obvious number 1 draft pick not Josh. Too much expectation was placed on him particularly at a club with no genuine ruckman.
Neither being a genuine first ruckman without decent support nor being not as good as Pavlich are Fraser's fault.

Pavlich wasnt even Fremantles first selection.
 

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Darkyprotector

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Re Fraser

Great Carear , top notch technician in the ruck
Mobile good skills and a leader

Cheap shot bagging him or uneducated

Also point out he kicked 5 goals in grand finals
5 more than me and you playing as a floating relief forward ruck

Better average than j brown in grand finals

Perspective
 

jackcass

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Was poor yesterday. Had his chances to really stamp himself on the game but just didn't take them. Fas was equally wayward but those 3 shots Crock had in the 2nd quarter when we were dominant were telling in terms of setting the tone. Didn't even make the distance on at least 2 of them. Seemed about the only time he was in the game.

Not sure what his issues are at the moment but he seems to be playing angry and stupid. Judged on his 2018 season he'd be gone I'd reckon. Very lucky he's contracted for 2019 but even that may not be enough to see him in B&W.
 

TradeDraft

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Re Fraser

Great Carear , top notch technician in the ruck
Mobile good skills and a leader

Cheap shot bagging him or uneducated

Also point out he kicked 5 goals in grand finals
5 more than me and you playing as a floating relief forward ruck

Better average than j brown in grand finals

Perspective
Fraser Problem was his Body went on him quite Early
 

HFF

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Would love to delist him.
He just doesn't have any weapons you can say are of AFL quality.
If Fas cannot get a game in a forward line that still has Jamie Elliott to return- what hope does Crocker have?
 

sr36

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That was no doubt the result of throwing his spindly frame at heavy bodied ruckmen.
Disagree. His body held up well injury wise. As a ruckman, Fraser's physical issues were a lack of strength and weight and a tiny leap, which he lost completely in his mid twenties when he did his medial ligament. I can't see how any of that was related to him playing too early against big bodies. If anything playing early against big bodies should have shown him the importance of strength and encouraged him to hit the gym. But he was well known as a detester of weights. His dislike of the gym is what stopped him from being a star. Nonetheless he still had a pretty good career.
 

jonbe54

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Fraser Problem was his Body went on him quite Early
Dave Fraser should never have played in the ruck - despite his height he simply didn't have the build for it.

The trouble was Malthouse had a thing against ruckmen and thought that an athletic follower could do the same job - which of course was a load of s**t.
 

Saintly Viewed

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Funny, I always thought his name was Josh.
Dave Fraser should never have played in the ruck - despite his height he simply didn't have the build for it.

The trouble was Malthouse had a thing against ruckmen and thought that an athletic follower could do the same job - which of course was a load of s**t.
Funny thing Malthouse used to call Fraser as JOSHUA.
He's the only one I heard use Joshua.
 

MagpieBat

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Would love to delist him.
He just doesn't have any weapons you can say are of AFL quality.
If Fas cannot get a game in a forward line that still has Jamie Elliott to return- what hope does Crocker have?
Injuries, which we have demonstrated new and innovative ways to incur over the journey...
 
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