Player Watch Ben Crocker (Delisted 2019, Pies VFL 2024)

[sr36]

Crocker hasn’t reached the level of regular senior player. That will be his challenge.

Back to Maxwell. He has a lot going for him, was a very good player. Was a very very good captain.
But to me he’s the medium level player. He’s not a star. He’s not elite. His was consistent capable play.

That’s no slight, but he’s just not A grade level. Is he a better player than any of Heath Shaw, James Clement, Shane Morwood, Scott Burns, Mick McGuane?
Not in the discussion in my view. He’s more like Jamie Turner, Andrew Ireland, Gavin Crosisca and those types and Nick also brought excellence in discipline and leading the group.

That’s no slight to him.
It’s a great compliment of how much he got out of himself and made a fine career.

Overall had he not been a premiership captain he’d be lost in the sands of time, again no slur, but like so much in our game, once a premiership is won, estimation goes up notches sometimes beyond the actual play.

Really admire Maxwell for everything he’s done, but in my best teams of eras, Nick misses the cut as others are superior talent wise.

I'll cop it for this, but I'd say he was below medium talent. Excellent athlete who read it well and was as hard as teak, but limited skills, struggled one on one, which is why we always tried to play him loose man and lacked composure - he was the king of blind hacks out of defence. We were so tightly structured in those days that he got away with a lot of his blind bombs because teammates positioning was known. I'd go as far as saying that he timed his career perfectly. He was a very good player for the time, but he'd struggle with this era of zone presses as he did once other teams copied our 2010-11 system, because he lacked the time and awareness to make decisions.

 

[Kappa]

40% Disposal efficiency once again.

It's literally better for us if he doesn't get the ball.

 

[surfer1]

Kicked 2 so we’re probably stuck with him a while longer now.

Might kicked 2 but his disposal and accountability atrocious. Elliott back in or even the Broom

 

[Thatsmyname]

Might kicked 2 but his disposal and accountability atrocious. Elliott back in or even the Broom

Definitely the broom, and sweep half a dozen players out with it

 

[manicpie]

Definitely the broom, and sweep half a dozen players out with it

Do you include Crocker in that half dozen, I mean you are a big fan?

 

[noideaatall]

Crocker hasn’t reached the level of regular senior player. That will be his challenge.

Back to Maxwell. He has a lot going for him, was a very good player. Was a very very good captain.
But to me he’s the medium level player. He’s not a star. He’s not elite. His was consistent capable play.

That’s no slight, but he’s just not A grade level. Is he a better player than any of Heath Shaw, James Clement, Shane Morwood, Scott Burns, Mick McGuane?
Not in the discussion in my view. He’s more like Jamie Turner, Andrew Ireland, Gavin Crosisca and those types and Nick also brought excellence in discipline and leading the group.

That’s no slight to him.
It’s a great compliment of how much he got out of himself and made a fine career.

Overall had he not been a premiership captain he’d be lost in the sands of time, again no slur, but like so much in our game, once a premiership is won, estimation goes up notches sometimes beyond the actual play.

Really admire Maxwell for everything he’s done, but in my best teams of eras, Nick misses the cut as others are superior talent wise.

That post is threadworthy SV. Could almost use that same description for T. Shaw. Undervalues Nick.

Crock gets another round. The tank is dry.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

That post is threadworthy SV. Could almost use that same description for T. Shaw. Undervalues Nick.

Crock gets another round. The tank is dry.

Tony Shaw a far better player than No do Maxwell.

Shaw got the pill in the coal face and made the centre his own. Limited distance kick but kicking accurate to target.

Don’t discount Maxwell the player just not the highest levels for me. Good footballer.

 

[noideaatall]

Tony Shaw a far better player than No do Maxwell.

Shaw got the pill in the coal face and made the centre his own. Limited distance kick but kicking accurate to target.

Don’t discount Maxwell the player just not the highest levels for me. Good footballer.

Threadworth mate. Not going to derail the Crocker thread.

 

[sirlothie]

Tony Shaw a far better player than No do Maxwell.

Shaw got the pill in the coal face and made the centre his own. Limited distance kick but kicking accurate to target.

Don’t discount Maxwell the player just not the highest levels for me. Good footballer.

Maxwell's major worth is in intangibles namely leadership and attitude. Don't forget he was pick 15 in the rookie draft, there was 100 blokes picked ahead of him who did not reach the heights Maxwell did. And that's the reason he got picked captain ahead of 20 blokes in the side who had more talent than he had and why he is a very highly rated and important part of the club until this day, he leaves an imprint and standard of professionalism and communication. Don't forget he mustered the troops and moulded that backline into the league's best too. There hasn't been many better figureheads going around, pick 15 rookie draft to premiership captain is a pretty big rise and feather in your cap. A lot better players than him didn't get that far.

That he got picked out to be a leadership mentor at a club with a culture as good as the Melbourne Storm in a completely different code speaks volumes of the character. Without him, 2010 may not have happened. In fact I guarantee it wouldn't because it was his intercept mark and kick forward that lead to our last goal enabling us to tie. An underheralded grand final turning moment. And then on St Kilda's last gasp into the forward line, he was the one who spoiled it. Saved us in the hottest of environments twice. As far as foot soldiers go he was as reliable as they come.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Do you include Crocker in that half dozen, I mean you are a big fan?

Have a cry man, he's not our problem and you know it

 

[noideaatall]

Maxwell's major worth is in intangibles namely leadership and attitude.

It is derailed.

What Maxwell offered, as did T.Shaw, that made them captains instead of b grade footballers, is that. I have vague age/drug addled memories of Maxwell's first game or two where he stood out as third man up in boundary throw ins. He showed right from the beginning the courage to take control of the ball. That's not necessarily talent, it can come from attitude. Like T.Shaw, Maxwell lacked elite talent but made up with that in attitude and was able to physically impact on game irrespective. I rate Shaw the most courageous of players for the pies in my lifetime.

I struggle with this analysis that values our last premiership captain as average. Talent doesn't win premierships, teams do. Players don't win premierships, lists do. If you are going to grade players on their ability to win us a premiership Maxwell certainly wouldn't have been rated b in the the 2010 team.

 

[manicpie]

Have a cry man, he's not our problem and you know it

But he is one of our problems

 

[Thatsmyname]

But he is one of our problems

One of very many including grooming him for a role you then don't play him in the seniors and mismatching Appleby to the point of cruelling his career, yeah lotta problems including and not limited to:

Ageing one paced midfield
Key Positionless forwardline
Chronically injured backline

But hey we got a killer Ruckman

 

[noideaatall]

But he is one of our problems

How many injuries do we have? He is number umpteenth on the list. Is he really the reason we lost? It seems apparent he is not part of the solution. He is not the problem though, not significantly worse than a number of players above him on the list.

 

[manicpie]

How many injuries do we have? He is number umpteenth on the list. Is he really the reason we lost? It seems apparent he is not part of the solution. He is not the problem though, not significantly worse than a number of players above him on the list.

I don't remember saying he was the reason we lost, my argument is that he is not up to it and indeed one of our problems

 

[noideaatall]

I don't remember saying he was the reason we lost, my argument is that he is not up to it and indeed one of our problems

My argument is that he is up to and performing at the level he is at. The bottom of the tank of our reserves. We don't have a better option, he isn;t that far off being reasonable at that level. Our real problem is why we are at the bottom of the tank and why there are a heap of players that are not at the bottom of the tank are playing like they should be.

 

[Shade]

One of the worst players in the AFL.

Automatically one player down when this dunce takes the field.

 

[rand corp]

Absolute vanilla, just not anywhere near the standard required and doesn't look like he possesses the tools to ever get there. Had a couple of games to show something, showed nothing. The fact that he was our only multiple goal-kicker to half time was not a reflrection of his game or ability, it was a tragic indictment of how we were/are traveling.

 

[manicpie]

Absolute vanilla, just not anywhere near the standard required and doesn't look like he possesses the tools to ever get there. Had a couple of games to show something, showed nothing. The fact that he was our only multiple goal-kicker to half time was not a reflrection of his game or ability, it was a tragic indictment of how we were/are traveling.

The worst part is that he play again this week unfortunately due to our lack of replacements, Richmond must be licking their lips

 

[DaVe86]

Had a crack again, but his 2 goals flatters his performance. Dropped some important marks as well as his poor disposal (which is a big issue considering he doesn't get a lot of it).

I just don't think he has what it takes to be a small forward. He has been playing wing at the VFL. If he holds his spot, I think we should give him a job in the midfield. Maybe get him to tag. He has heart, so maybe can be entrusted with a tagging job. Maybe even play as a defender on one of Richmond's smalls and release Maynard onto the ball or something.

At the moment, it's doing no one a service having him as a small forward.

 

[sr36]

I don't remember saying he was the reason we lost, my argument is that he is not up to it and indeed one of our problems

Totally agree. Our forward line is a case of bomb it and hope, because Crocker and Mayne are down there. They're too slow and not dangerous enough in a one on one to take advantage of defenders sagging off them. Therefore we can't get any isolation for Degoey and Mihocek, who are our only two forward targets who deserve to be getting a game at the moment. Need to rotate our mids through the forwardline and hope like hell that we can get Elliott and at least one of Moore and Reid back ASAP. Plus Stepho for the finals. And hope like hell WHE stops being the softest bloke in the AFL.

 

[manicpie]

Totally agree. Our forward line is a case of bomb it and hope, because Crocker and Mayne are down there. They're too slow and not dangerous enough in a one on one to take advantage of defenders sagging off them. Therefore we can't get any isolation for Degoey and Mihocek, who are our only two forward targets who deserve to be getting a game at the moment. Need to rotate our mids through the forwardline and hope like hell that we can get Elliott and at least one of Moore and Reid back ASAP. Plus Stepho for the finals. And hope like hell WHE stops being the softest bloke in the AFL.

Thank you, you are spot on, Mayne and crocker in the same forward line is a recipe for disaster, I would even play broomhead ahead of them and i am not a big fan

 

[Snoop Dog]

The way we deliver ball into the forwards, use it in the forwards, defend when it turns over are all big issues. Lets wait and see what happens at the G. Hoping we can put it down to fatigue post WCE win but think thats optimistic.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

The way we deliver ball into the forwards, use it in the forwards, defend when it turns over are all big issues. Lets wait and see what happens at the G. Hoping we can put it down to fatigue post WCE win but think thats optimistic.

Delivery - you said it.


Game is very simple.
Get ball.
Do good things with it.
Rinse, repeat.

Delivery poor, crowded. Won’t be sustainable.

 

[Buckley is my hero]

Notice people comparing Maxwell to Crocker. You can't compare the two. Maxwell was about 90kg when mature. He played as a third tall defender mainly as an interceptor and rebounder. He rarely played on the 100kg forwards because he would be outmuscled. Crocker plays as a forward/wing. He doesn't have the weight to compete against the types of Hurn or Barrass, nor the pace of Stephenson to outrun them, nor the skills of say a Sidebottom to out contest them. If Crocker put on about 10kg of muscle he could likely out mark any of those defensive types he plays on, but until he does I can't see a place for him on the forward line. Then if he plays on the wings the more pacy skilled opponents will likely take him apart. The answer to me is pretty obvious. He either builds up his tank which is limited by his lack of any express speed, or builds up his muscle to take opposition defenders on. If he can't do either he has a limited future in AFL in my opinion.