Society/Culture Ben Shapiro

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Gethelred

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That's not claiming to be a victim but spotlighting incinserity and showcasing the other party playing the victim.
He's jumped from her comment straight to 'Slandering someone as a sexist catcaller'. He's claimed victim status pretty much immediately.

I'm also not seeing the 'spotlighting insincerity'. I've no idea who that person is, but if Shapiro sent me out a challenge at near complete random, I'd probably say no too, and be a bit snarky about it.

If he was interested in a genuine debate, he wouldn't already be attempting to score points.
 

HARKER

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He's jumped from her comment straight to 'Slandering someone as a sexist catcaller'. He's claimed victim status pretty much immediately.

I'm also not seeing the 'spotlighting insincerity'. I've no idea who that person is, but if Shapiro sent me out a challenge at near complete random, I'd probably say no too, and be a bit snarky about it.

If he was interested in a genuine debate, he wouldn't already be attempting to score points.
He may have needed to say what he did and may have been drawn into the comment, but I don't see where it's off the mark.

Why bring gender into it when not required?
She brought up the term catcalling into things and Shapiro simply put the one and one together
 

Gethelred

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He may have needed to say what he did and may have been drawn into the comment, but I don't see where it's off the mark.

Why bring gender into it when not required?
She brought up the term catcalling into things and Shapiro simply put the one and one together
Harks, I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily in terms of what you're saying. All I am saying is that the absolute second he could, he claimed 'Look, she slandered me! I'm not the bad guy!'

I suppose this particular opinion is shaped by what I think of Shapiro himself; that he's a conservative talking head, who makes his money being a more eloquent version of Milo and less outright crazy than Alex Jones. He is far more palatable than either of those two, but in order to fulfill the criteria of that position he needs to be attacking a nebulous 'the Left' in any way he can, and to score as many points as quickly as he can.

To my mind, that's not a debate, that's a gameshow, and one I'd find singularly uninteresting.
 

HARKER

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Harks, I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily in terms of what you're saying. All I am saying is that the absolute second he could, he claimed 'Look, she slandered me! I'm not the bad guy!'

I suppose this particular opinion is shaped by what I think of Shapiro himself; that he's a conservative talking head, who makes his money being a more eloquent version of Milo and less outright crazy than Alex Jones. He is far more palatable than either of those two, but in order to fulfill the criteria of that position he needs to be attacking a nebulous 'the Left' in any way he can, and to score as many points as quickly as he can.

To my mind, that's not a debate, that's a gameshow, and one I'd find singularly uninteresting.
That's the Twitter world for you. All tit for tat. :)
You really can't expect much good to come out of a couple of sentences.

I know what you're saying. Left vs Right....blah blah blah. All gets so boring after a short period of time.
Wouldn't mind having a dollar though for every time Shapiro state "The Left" and Petersons says "Hierarchy" though.. :)
 

chunkylover53

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He's jumped from her comment straight to 'Slandering someone as a sexist catcaller'. He's claimed victim status pretty much immediately.

I'm also not seeing the 'spotlighting insincerity'. I've no idea who that person is, but if Shapiro sent me out a challenge at near complete random, I'd probably say no too, and be a bit snarky about it.

If he was interested in a genuine debate, he wouldn't already be attempting to score points.
Kyle Kulinski, a logic left-leaning political commentator (perhaps the only good one) publically offered to debate Ben, and he has just flat out ignored it. He’s a coward who can only steamroll students and TV hosts.
 

Gethelred

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Kyle Kulinski, a logic left-leaning political commentator (perhaps the only good one) publically offered to debate Ben, and he has just flat out ignored it. He’s a coward who can only steamroll students and TV hosts.
I think you're doing Ben a bit of a disservice.

Sure, he's very, very careful who he confronts and what he chooses to confront them about, but I see that as being because he knows the battles he can win versus those he cannot. He's in it purely for the profile and the money.

Being mercenary doesn't make you a coward, it just makes you rather more practical than a true idealist would be.
 

HARKER

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I think you're doing Ben a bit of a disservice.

Sure, he's very, very careful who he confronts and what he chooses to confront them about, but I see that as being because he knows the battles he can win versus those he cannot. He's in it purely for the profile and the money.

Being mercenary doesn't make you a coward, it just makes you rather more practical than a true idealist would be.
That seems to me to be very well put.

Sometimes the wins or losses come about simply for research (or the lack of it) as no one can be fully versed on every aspect of any topic, let alone all aspects of every topic and this is where these public speakers can get found out as they start to stretch their wings beyond their comfort zones.

Maybe Shapiro is just becoming yesterdays news, or maybe he'll find a way to re-invent himself, as this is clearly something he enjoys doing......as long as someone is listening. :)
 

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It serves to give them both what they determine to be the foundation of their character and it plays a significant part of Shapiro's social scene.
 

chunkylover53

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I think you're doing Ben a bit of a disservice.

Sure, he's very, very careful who he confronts and what he chooses to confront them about, but I see that as being because he knows the battles he can win versus those he cannot. He's in it purely for the profile and the money.

Being mercenary doesn't make you a coward, it just makes you rather more practical than a true idealist would be.
Hmm I understand what you’re saying and I’d be fine with picking and choosing his battles but his carry on his ridiculous. Publically shaming ‘lefties’ he calls out who don’t debate him, posting videos himself with the title ‘Ben Shapiro destroys leftist student’ - which is literally just a video of a kid nervously asking a question with Ben cutting them off and humiliating them. Yet when someone bails him up for a debate he may not win he just goes silent like the people he makes fun of.
 

Gethelred

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Hmm I understand what you’re saying and I’d be fine with picking and choosing his battles but his carry on his ridiculous. Publically shaming ‘lefties’ he calls out who don’t debate him, posting videos himself with the title ‘Ben Shapiro destroys leftist student’ - which is literally just a video of a kid nervously asking a question with Ben cutting them off and humiliating them. Yet when someone bails him up for a debate he may not win he just goes silent like the people he makes fun of.
Well, yeah.

He's a prize fighter, but with zero interest in going for the championship. He's a prosecutor too interested in preserving his record than actively trying to ensure justice is done. He's a gun bat, who's content playing for the bottom XI and smacking tons for fun.

He's only in it for himself, and by every single cheap debate he wins and every single weaker than it could've been point achieved, he actively undermines all those who support him, and makes him easier to refute and easier to beat. He'll continue, right up until someone completely unknown comes along who is prepared (knows his arguments, his debating style, his format and his subject matter) and they'll wipe the floor with him, and he'll fade away. It's happened to so, so many people like him before, and it'll happen to so many afterwards.

He's simply trying to prolong it while he can. I see it as a significant pity, really; you cannot argue with someone who is literally a strawman of themselves, because it becomes less about what's being said as who is saying it and how it's presented, and it is there he's very, very strong. It's still just a matter of time for him.
 

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Leeda

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american ******.. otherwise inform me that he is important.. dubious lock down dude.. he'd like being called a dude.. I know this..
 

Bollox

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If he was wrong about the broader issues he wouldnt still be around, and you wouldnt be trying to smear him.

He's just so right so often that you are reduced to calling him a ******, coward etc. Fairly standard issue lefty response.

Lets face it, all he does is educate himself on topics then quote facts back at anyone obviously talking out their arse.

Smart bloke.
He makes a lot of sense, most of time.
 

Richard Pryor

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If he was wrong about the broader issues he wouldnt still be around, and you wouldnt be trying to smear him.

He's just so right so often that you are reduced to calling him a ******, coward etc. Fairly standard issue lefty response.

Lets face it, all he does is educate himself on topics then quote facts back at anyone obviously talking out their arse.

Smart bloke.
He makes a lot of sense, most of time.
He makes sense when tackling fringe loon beliefs, but when he's ringing the alarm bells about Ross and Rachel from Friends being propaganda signalling the downfall of society he's on shakier ground.

As a sidenote, what are thoughts on Andrew Klavan? Have watched a little of his stuff on youtube, not enough to get a detailed sense of his political stances, seems to be a much more palatable conservative. Willing to diverge from the standard abrasive right wing culture warrior opinions on some things.
 

chunkylover53

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If he was wrong about the broader issues he wouldnt still be around, and you wouldnt be trying to smear him.

He's just so right so often that you are reduced to calling him a ******, coward etc. Fairly standard issue lefty response.

Lets face it, all he does is educate himself on topics then quote facts back at anyone obviously talking out their arse.

Smart bloke.
He makes a lot of sense, most of time.
Nah I’m not a lefty and used to be a fan of his. I called him a coward because he ignores debates from anyone who can successfully string a sentence together.

As the poster above me said he’s right about the **** that’s so easy to be right about - throwing some logic and ‘facts’ into confused SJW students - which was fun to occasionally watch with his rise to fame, but now that he’s still thriving off that sort of behaviour, reposting his own videos etc it just makes him a bit of a dick IMO.
 

HARKER

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Dude just melted hard on a BBC interview with Andrew Neil. Stormed off early because of a couple of difficult questions.

Fraud.
When you simply align yourself to one political persuasion, you're destined for a fall of sorts eventually.
Having just watched the interview, it did come across as a bit of aa witch hunt though. Did it not?

Here's the thing though: When you have a lot to say and in the arena one wishes to say what they do, one will always have adversaries that will dissect all you have said over a long period of time to cherry pick those things one may have changed their mind on, or simply having regretted saying in the first place.
You could do this with anyone...anyone.
 

Snake_Baker

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You thought he handled himself well?

He’s gone to Twitter and admitted he lost his cool and didn’t prepare properly. Nobody is disagreeing.
The interview appeared to me to be one big tabloid level trolling exercise. It's a shame because Neil has very capable journalistic abilities.

Making claims like "stormed off" and "fraud" is as childish as the "destroyed" headings that usually misrepresent these liberal/conservative framed clips.

Shapiro went on to talk about his book, Neil appeared to be focused on antagonizing Shapiro from the outset, then after more than 15 minutes Shapiro politely ended the interview because it had little to do with the purpose of discussing the book.

Don't get me wrong here. I am no conservative, nor a fan of all of Shapiro's beliefs, but if you can't acknowledge that he's a seriously sharp operator, then you don't have any business in analyzing this stuff with an expectation of being taken seriously.
 

HARKER

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Don't get me wrong here. I am no conservative, nor a fan of all of Shapiro's beliefs, but if you can't acknowledge that he's a seriously sharp operator, then you don't have any business in analyzing this stuff with an expectation of being taken seriously.
Shapiro is a highly intelligent operator. To question that alone, one may be just a little jealous.
I also don't care for some of the conflating he does with politics and religion and his incessant attack upon the left...the left..the left...but that's not the point

This interview was designed for one purpose and one purpose only. Actually I don't blame Shapiro for walking off and it does fit his character of sorts, as he is impetuous and highly charged. No problem and Mr. BBC (Neil) may address these things a little better in the future, if he indeed does care for debate rather than to simply try and 'out' someone for what they may have said years ago.
 

Snake_Baker

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Shapiro is a highly intelligent operator. To question that alone, one may be just a little jealous.
It's more likely to be the result of a lack of intellect.

This interview was designed for one purpose and one purpose only.
They're just playing to their market.

No problem and Mr. BBC (Neil) may address these things a little better in the future, if he indeed does care for debate rather than to simply try and 'out' someone for what they may have said years ago.
It was a very lazy effort.

It's just like the Peterson stuff. I really do have a yearning for someone to come along and challenge his views at an intellectual level, but it's always the same cliched, posturing dung designed to play to the home crowd.
 

HARKER

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It's just like the Peterson stuff. I really do have a yearning for someone to come along and challenge his views at an intellectual level, but it's always the same cliched, posturing dung designed to play to the home crowd.
That often seems to be the case, when in the public forum.
Everyone wants to score a point or two, sooner than engage into something that may indeed even be meaningful.

Fortunately one can watch the Rubin Report that doesn't set out trying to hit a home run, but just to open up discussion.


I don't care who's on the table if they have something interesting, fresh, well thought out and maybe even true to say.
 
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