I couldn't find a thread on this which is too weird, so i'm thinking i just didn't find it. Mods please feel free to combine this to an existing thread on the TPPA.
-
LIVE: Richmond v Melbourne - 7:25PM Wed
Squiggle tips Demons at 77% chance -- What's your tip? -- Team line-ups »
Bernie Sanders' thoughts on the TPPA
- Thread starter nicky
- Start date
- Tagged users None
I don't get it, why are governments signing off on something that allows them to be sued for getting in the way of multinationals' profits?
This doesn't seem to benefit people or governments.
- Sep 18, 2013
- 17,752
- 11,820
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
Really good thread on one of the many real issues facing us. While all the peasants and sheep argue over gender pay gaps and Islamic madmen and thier burqas, things that mean absolutely phuqing nothing in the grand scheme of things, a very corrupt Washington is trying to slowly become a one world government.
Ignoring some of the peasant and sheep remarks, I tend to agree. This seems like it could have a much more detrimental effect than many other issues we're currently facing.
Gough
Moderator
- Sep 29, 2006
- 71,945
- 133,555
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Moderator
- #5
Opposition to these new free trade deals was framed as racist at one point which was a little confusing. It will be interesting to see where Hilary Clinton swings on this, if she nixes it all the chest beating, and self congratulations by our government will have been for nowt.
She's in on this for sure,this has the elites very excited.
How was Trump swinging on this type of NWO agreements?
Mofra
Moderator
- Dec 6, 2005
- 67,092
- 198,371
- AFL Club
- Western Bulldogs
- Other Teams
- Footscray, Coney Island Warriors
- Moderator
- #7
The ISDS provisions in FTA are extremely worrying, but that's neo-liberalism for you.
The Chicago schoolers have wanted to do away with democracy for decades as an impost on the purity of the market (see their failed Shock Doctrine experiments in South America and former eastern Bloc states, austerity measures within the EU).
Mexico is importing maize for the first time in it's history as a result of the NAFTA.
The WTO is a marginal improvement on the GATT but people nee to understand that FTAs aren't about free trade, they entrench trade reciprocity which means removing status quo provisions (e.g. traffic light exemption system under WTO provisions) are a painfully slow process that takes decades.
He's been viciously against it from the beginning to go along wth anti-NAFTA views.
- Thread starter
- #9
(firstly, I've got to say that I'm shocked this is the first thread on this topic.)
The government often signs off on things that are not in the best interest of the people. Politicians are often compromised or will sign off on something for their own self interest.
I have no idea why Obama is going along with this but it's going to be terrible for the average American and average anybody whose country is in this treaty. The treaty is a nightmare for everyone apart from those who benefit from profits of multi national companies. Similar treaties exist between countries which undermine the democracy of those countries. This treaty allows multinationals to sue governments in some type of international forum for "future loss of profits"
1st example is the Australian government is being sued by Tobacco multinational giant Phillip Morris for introducing plain packaging. So this health initiative, to stop children being branded into smoking, something that nearly every Australian agrees with, is being challenged by Phillip Morris on the basis that they're going to lose money from future children not smoking. Due to the treaty we have with Hong Kong this is a legitimate claim that the Australian government has to defend itself against using tax payer dollars.
Phillip Morris are also suing much poorer countries (like Uruguay), that don't have the money to defend against such claims, which means that other poor countries will be deterred from introducing similar health initiatives.
Can you see the problem here?
This is just one shitty thing this treaty will introduce, I suggest you do your own research on it. Also understand who is supporting it, who is opposing it, who has been involved in drafting it - etc. This secret deal is a disgusting and it's amazing how little the average person knows about it.
Absolutely, I just don't get why Obama would be so desperate to have it ratified.
He can't be re-elected, so surely he doesn't need favours? Unless he still considers himself beholden to special interests.
Let's say Australia does get sued for $5 billion and loses the case - which will be overseen by CORPORATE LAWYERS, that's $5 billion gone from healthcare/education/whatever portfolio. Who the * thinks this is a good idea?
* Donald Trump's comments about immigration blah blah blah, this seems to have far more impact. It's genuinely scary. If the Republicans are largely supporting it, yet Democrats are trying to prevent it from going through, why is Obama so hellbent on it succeeding? Is it just a 'legacy' thing where he's desperate to feed his own ego?
- Thread starter
- #11
I have nfi why Obama is supporting this, it's obviously terrible. I do think the Democrats are beholden to Wall street and multinationals, I can't see Hillary against this either. Sanders is the Democrat who would have told this deal to f off.
It's not just tobacco companies suing. Private multinationals can sue the government for anything they do that serves the public - an example that was used was hospitals.
government opens a public hospital next to a private one - private hospital sues government for "expected" loss of profits. Even though this is bullshit and probably wouldn't stand up in court, government doesn't see the value in spending $10m plus to defend itself so doesn't open public hospital.
I see Obama as left wing and on the authoritarian side of things. I have nfi why he would go along with this other than presidents don't really pull the strings.
- Thread starter
- #12
The treaty hasn't been drafted by Washington, they're just the patsy who are trying to rush it through. It's been drafted by multi-national corporations.
Because Governments are actually run, to a variety of degrees, by multinational corporations behind the scenes. This is particularly obvious in the US where more than a handful of former CEOs and other parties with vested interests are given roles within government departments, such as the USDA and the FDA.
Dick Cheney and Halliburton is the archetype of this phenomenon. Why people don't get this yet is beyond me. Once you stop using mainstream sources of "news" as your only source of information, it all becomes very clear.
Last edited:
I read an article that Obama even went to the black sections of the Democrats to get some support and even they rejected him. Elizabeth Warren has spoken out about it, and so have several other Democrats.
Yeah, I watched both videos last night and read several other articles about it. I used the Getup website to send an email to David Feeney about it, too.
This has the potential for so much fallout.
I definitely understand that, but surely this turns Obama into one of the worst presidents in living memory. Selling out his constituents so readily and brazenly lying that it's a great deal. Or as Hillary said, 'the gold standard'. Pathetic. This reinforces my support for Trumo tenfold.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...a-says-world-bank-report-20160111-gm3g9w.html
Wow, this seems like it's well worth our government being sued by multinationals.
Wow, this seems like it's well worth our government being sued by multinationals.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07...ounting-on-republican-majorities-to-pass-tpp/Agree!
and please post any articles you think are worth reading.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item...is_not_a_progressive_trade_agreement_20150609
I found the two of those rather informative, even if I've never heard of Truthdig before. I'm glad you posted this thread though, I hadn't really paid much attention to the topic.
Yes, yes he is one of them...a puppet really. Unfortunately the democratic system has been undermined by corporate interests for some time now. It's just becoming more obvious each year.
JFK was killed for a reason. And it wasn't a lone nutcase.
- Thread starter
- #19
Yes me too. I was looking into this over a year ago and it fell off my radar until recently.
It's amazing how little we are doing about this nightmare. It's almost like we're being distracted with terrorism and the carnival election.
Maggie5
Moderator
- Moderator
- #20
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/trans-pacific-partnership-agreement.1039616/page-35
There was a thread but people stopped posting for some reason.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ar-view-analysis-of-trans-pacific-partnership
To be fair, TPP has been raised by throughout the election by both Trump and Sanders a lot.
Hillary did her normal pivot to whatever was popular.
Society has just become to apathetic to do anything about it. When people are more concerned about the Kardashians than they are about something that could have tangible repercussions in the future, what can we really do about it? People are too readily distracted.
Hell, in one of my economics classes last semester, I was the lone voice speaking for the benefits of a minimum wage and the retention of government support for the unemployed. As a society, it seems we can only see what is directly in front of us while being incapable of seeing the nuance in each situation.
- Sep 18, 2013
- 17,752
- 11,820
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
Washington is controlled by those corporations. There's some really good docos on the lobbying industry in Washington and how most politicians are just paid stooges. In fact I believe there is a website where each senator and congressman financial loyalties are published.
Maggie5
Moderator
- Moderator
- #24
I was surprised with a news item this week to hear that Japanese consumers are paying less for their (Australian) gas than some states in Australia, nor how much the price of meat has gone up here. Is this a result of the wonderful Free Trade agreements that will be so good for all Australians?
It was interesting that so much of this agreement was not made public yet there were invitations to companies/interested parties to have access to the members involved in the discussions.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/06/12/comment-shrouded-secrecy-opposition-tpp-mounts
Corporate lobbyists have had privileged access to the negotiations throughout, with some estimating the involvement of around 6,000 US lobbyists. Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent since before negotiations even formally began by huge companies trying to ensure they got the best possible deal for maximising their profits.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8007921/Secrecy-surrounds-TPP-trade-deal
https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/...-interests-in-international-treaties-like-tpp
It was interesting that so much of this agreement was not made public yet there were invitations to companies/interested parties to have access to the members involved in the discussions.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/06/12/comment-shrouded-secrecy-opposition-tpp-mounts
Corporate lobbyists have had privileged access to the negotiations throughout, with some estimating the involvement of around 6,000 US lobbyists. Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent since before negotiations even formally began by huge companies trying to ensure they got the best possible deal for maximising their profits.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8007921/Secrecy-surrounds-TPP-trade-deal
https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/...-interests-in-international-treaties-like-tpp
Similar threads
