Besides GAblett...

[Vdubs]

Dreadful teams allegedly in the mix fail to counter him. The professionalism of these so called well coached teams is highly questionable

Gavin, without wanting to sound dismissive of your post, I seriously would like you to tell me which players from WCE, Swans, Freo, Adelaide, NM, Geelong, Port, Richmond- the most recent likely contenders-do you believe should be used to tag this player.
Because these are full-time coaches who live and breathe footy, and not one has been successful. I suspect Brad Scott is closest with Ben Jacobs, yes, a no-namer, but very good negator.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Gavin, without wanting to sound dismissive of your post, I seriously would like you to tell me which players from WCE, Swans, Freo, Adelaide, NM, Geelong, Port, Richmond- the most recent likely contenders-do you believe should be used to tag this player.
Because these are full-time coaches who live and breathe footy, and not one has been successful. I suspect Brad Scott is closest with Ben Jacobs, yes, a no-namer, but very good negator.

I think he's taking the piss out of me. What do you really think Gavin?

 

[Gavin Excell]

Gavin, without wanting to sound dismissive of your post, I seriously would like you to tell me which players from WCE, Swans, Freo, Adelaide, NM, Geelong, Port, Richmond- the most recent likely contenders-do you believe should be used to tag this player.
Because these are full-time coaches who live and breathe footy, and not one has been successful. I suspect Brad Scott is closest with Ben Jacobs, yes, a no-namer, but very good negator.

There is a view amongst afl elite (ha) that tagging isnt considered part of "best practice". I don't see it as a question of taggers being able to mix it, more that alleged best coaches with all their enterouges following sheep like in this thinking that taggers arent the way to go

 

[Bardo State]

Spot on. Judd was the best player in the comp in 2011.

People also need to realise that to win a Brownlow you only need to be the best player in the games you play in, not every game of every round. Hence why Footscray, St. Kilda and Sydney have way more Brownlow winners than Carlton or Hawthorn.

Being the best player in the best team doesn't count for more than being the best in a poor one as far as the Brownlow is concerned.

Judd wasn't the best player in 2011... He was Brownlow favourite because he won in 2010. Same thing happened with Priddis. Priddis isn't in the top 10 mids in the game but he wins a Brownlow and everyone is all of a sudden trying to find reasons to rate him so they don't look dim. Judd got walloped in the B&F in 2011 by Marc Murphy who had the better year.

I don't think Judd's 2010 selection was undeserved, he could have easily had a starting 18 spot and was among the best handful of mids that year. There have been many more questionable Brownlow selections in recent years. It would be like saying Gray was a borderline selection this year just because he was on the bench. His 2011 was overrated and I don't think he's been the best player in the comp or even top 2 (high bar I know) since he moved to Carlton. Still very good, just riding his West Coast reputation and 2010 Brownlow win a bit.

 

[Bardo State]

Go back to 2013 and look at all the threads from hawthorn and neutrals debating whether franklin was better in 2008 or 2013. Many neutrals thought 2013 was better. I don't. But it was easily his second best. 2011 not even in the debate.

Yeah nah, you're wrong. In 2011 Franklin averaged 18.2 disposals, 3.7 goals, 3.3 tackles, 0.7 goal assists and over a Brownlow vote per game. He had 4 games where he kicked less than 3 goals, with 2 of those in the first 2 games. And in those 4 games he still averaged over 18 touches and 4 tackles a game. In the finals he kicked 4, 4 and 3 goals despite injuring himself, including what looked like the sealer with a ridiculous shot from the boundary in the prelim. Wasn't to be though. Some people consider 08 as his best year but I think 11 was a better year as an all round player. Was also incredible in 2012 and 2014 but not many would argue they're as good as the other years I mentioned. His 2013 was still 'good' but he wasn't even the best key forward in his team that year. Probably second or third best overall. I'm not even sure his 2013 was better than this year. It's quite possibly his worst season since 06. That's a decade.

You're very, very wrong.

 

[Bardo State]

Which seasons was Franklin clearly the best fwd in the comp?

I count 08, 12, and 14.

Riewoldt for example, or Tredrea can each say the same, but rightfully they're not considered in a top 10 goat.

Year by year?

07: 4th-5th
08: Clear 1st
09: About 4th
10: Pretty clear 1st
11: Clear 1st
12: Clear 1st
13: 2nd-4th
14: Clear 1st
15: 3rd-5th (injuries to blame)

It's a pretty impressive record.

 

[footyfan1978]

Franklin, Sam Mitchell and Boomer ? Seriously guys, we are talking all time top ten. Not last bloody ten years. Try to open your mind up that all time means a lot lot more than just the football you can recently remember. Incredible!!!!

 

[Vdubs]

Franklin, Sam Mitchell and Boomer ? Seriously guys, we are talking all time top ten. Not last bloody ten years. Try to open your mind up that all time means a lot lot more than just the football you can recently remember. Incredible!!!!

So people who are not able to recall any earlier than the time they've been around, say 30 years, should not be eligible to have an opinion?
I've been following footy 55 years now, and the likes of Boomer, Buddy, Mitchell are actually right up there imho. Comparing yesterdays heroes with todays is fraught with criticism anyway. Today's players are so superior in every capacity, but of course, it's an unfair comparison.
How good would Lethal be in today's game?

 

[footyfan1978]

So people who are not able to recall any earlier than the time they've been around, say 30 years, should not be eligible to have an opinion?

Why would you suggest people can not have an opinion ?
We are talking all time here, does not matter how long any of us been around, what matters is comprehending it is about all time and then giving it considered thought. If I am going to think about such a question I'm going to think about times well beyond what time period I watched. Clearly some don't given recent pages. I can't take people seriously that keep rabbiting on about someone like Boomer for multiple posts. This is not about longevity....if it was he would be relevant.

 

[Vdubs]

Why would you suggest people can not have an opinion ?
We are talking all time here, does not matter how long any of us been around, what matters is comprehending it is about all time and then giving it considered thought. If I am going to think about such a question I'm going to think about times well beyond what time period I watched. Clearly some don't given recent pages. I can't take people seriously that keep rabbiting on about someone like Boomer for multiple posts. This is not about longevity....if it was he would be relevant.

Well, who in history is better than Boomer in his role?
And I have not uttered one word about Boomer until these 2 posts, btw.
Some people want to give an opinion based on their own life viewing experience, and that is their prerogative.

 

[footyfan1978]

Well, who in history is better than Boomer in his role?

Start a thread with that the topic and will happily answer. This thread needs not be taken off topic any more than it has been in recent pages with players not truly relevant.
It is about ALL TIME top ten.

 

[jiphoc]

Franklin, Sam Mitchell and Boomer ? Seriously guys, we are talking all time top ten. Not last bloody ten years. Try to open your mind up that all time means a lot lot more than just the football you can recently remember. Incredible!!!!

Boomer? Top 10 of all time? I assume you mean top 10 shortest players of all time.

 

[scon]

Top 10 shortest+Top 10 liars=Top 5 short liars!
Boomer,slink on down!

 

[Franc de Borges]

Judd wasn't the best player in 2011... He was Brownlow favourite because he won in 2010. Same thing happened with Priddis. Priddis isn't in the top 10 mids in the game but he wins a Brownlow and everyone is all of a sudden trying to find reasons to rate him so they don't look dim. Judd got walloped in the B&F in 2011 by Marc Murphy who had the better year.

I don't think Judd's 2010 selection was undeserved, he could have easily had a starting 18 spot and was among the best handful of mids that year. There have been many more questionable Brownlow selections in recent years. It would be like saying Gray was a borderline selection this year just because he was on the bench. His 2011 was overrated and I don't think he's been the best player in the comp or even top 2 (high bar I know) since he moved to Carlton. Still very good, just riding his West Coast reputation and 2010 Brownlow win a bit.

Nah, Judd was outstanding in 2011 as was Murphy, hence why we sat in the top 4 for most of the season. Couldn't care less why he was Brownlow favourite, I actually go to games and that was the most brilliant of his eight years at Carlton.

That was the one year he was part of a Blues side worthy of his talent and it was a sight to behold. Like Williams before him, became a genuine club great in a short period of time and the fact that was achieved when he clearly wasn't the same player as before only increases his standing in my view.

 

[Grongey]

Unfortunately for Pendlebury, he is playing at the same time as Ablett Jnr and Fyfe.

And Dane Swan.

But he could still get there.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Tom Boyd.

 

[marty36]

Nah, Judd was outstanding in 2011 as was Murphy, hence why we sat in the top 4 for most of the season. Couldn't care less why he was Brownlow favourite, I actually go to games and that was the most brilliant of his eight years at Carlton.

That was the one year he was part of a Blues side worthy of his talent and it was a sight to behold. Like Williams before him, became a genuine club great in a short period of time and the fact that was achieved when he clearly wasn't the same player as before only increases his standing in my view.

There is no question that when a player switches clubs, people tend to look at it as a negative and they lose something. Its probably the fact the original supporter base dont defend them as much and the new supporter base see them somewaht as a ring in. But if you look at the list of names Buddy, Judd, GAJ, Williams, Dangerfield, Burgoyne, Carey and Cousins. Its a list which has some out and out talent all potentially top 30 all time best in the AFL.

 

[harry000]

Trent Cotchin...

 

[deflated]

So people who are not able to recall any earlier than the time they've been around, say 30 years, should not be eligible to have an opinion?
I've been following footy 55 years now, and the likes of Boomer, Buddy, Mitchell are actually right up there imho. Comparing yesterdays heroes with todays is fraught with criticism anyway. Today's players are so superior in every capacity, but of course, it's an unfair comparison.
How good would Lethal be in today's game?

Never seen the big drama about comparing between eras myself. Look at how much better a player was than his peers, the candidates for the top 10 all played the game as if the other team were wading in mud. The great ones will dominate their opposition in any year.

We haven't somehow evolved a better footballer in the last 40 years; they're just bigger and faster due to better diet and training. If Bunton or Coleman were born in 1995 they would be bigger and faster than they were in reality and would still be freaks. A bigger and faster Skilton or Hart would have no problems adapting to modern tactics and playing at an elite level if they came up through the TAC Cup, academies and the like.

 

[marty36]

Never seen the big drama about comparing between eras myself. Look at how much better a player was than his peers, the candidates for the top 10 all played the game as if the other team were wading in mud. The great ones will dominate their opposition in any year.

We haven't somehow evolved a better footballer in the last 40 years; they're just bigger and faster due to better diet and training. If Bunton or Coleman were born in 1995 they would be bigger and faster than they were in reality and would still be freaks. A bigger and faster Skilton or Hart would have no problems adapting to modern tactics and playing at an elite level if they came up through the TAC Cup, academies and the like.

So true, they can only be compared to their ERA, in the 70's half the players were smoking a dart at half time and a beer at the end of every game. Can you imagine that in todays world, so the super fit guys of today would not be receiving the diet advise and care they are back in those days along with them training on a Tuesday and thursday night only. You need to look at the elite of today and the elite of years ago, so Boomer wouldnt be elite like say Wayne harms in his day wasnt elite, he was a great player but not elite.

 

[Seeds]

Yeah nah, you're wrong. In 2011 Franklin averaged 18.2 disposals, 3.7 goals, 3.3 tackles, 0.7 goal assists and over a Brownlow vote per game. He had 4 games where he kicked less than 3 goals, with 2 of those in the first 2 games. And in those 4 games he still averaged over 18 touches and 4 tackles a game. In the finals he kicked 4, 4 and 3 goals despite injuring himself, including what looked like the sealer with a ridiculous shot from the boundary in the prelim. Wasn't to be though. Some people consider 08 as his best year but I think 11 was a better year as an all round player. Was also incredible in 2012 and 2014 but not many would argue they're as good as the other years I mentioned. His 2013 was still 'good' but he wasn't even the best key forward in his team that year. Probably second or third best overall. I'm not even sure his 2013 was better than this year. It's quite possibly his worst season since 06. That's a decade.

You're very, very wrong.

Have already admitted I wasn't talking about 2013 and mixed up my years.

 

[Seeds]

Unfortunately for Pendlebury, he is playing at the same time as Ablett Jnr and Fyfe.

And Dane Swan.

But he could still get there.

And Mitchell and Dangerfield and selwood. Nah he ain't even close to getting there. Pendlebury ain't even in the top 3 pies I've seen play over the last 30 years.

 

[marty36]

And Mitchell and Dangerfield and selwood. Nah he ain't even close to getting there. Pendlebury ain't even in the top 3 pies I've seen play over the last 30 years.

All the players could, if they keep their current standard up to retirement and maybe snag a brownlow, but its a big ask! PD there is definetly a possibility of a brownlow or two but maybe being with selwood they may stuff each other up by stealing votes.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Never seen the big drama about comparing between eras myself. Look at how much better a player was than his peers, the candidates for the top 10 all played the game as if the other team were wading in mud. The great ones will dominate their opposition in any year.

We haven't somehow evolved a better footballer in the last 40 years; they're just bigger and faster due to better diet and training. If Bunton or Coleman were born in 1995 they would be bigger and faster than they were in reality and would still be freaks. A bigger and faster Skilton or Hart would have no problems adapting to modern tactics and playing at an elite level if they came up through the TAC Cup, academies and the like.

Seems pretty logical to me but most people wouldn't agree with you. Which is how we end up with half a dozen forwards from the same era somehow all considered to be amongst the best of all time

 

[Vdubs]

Never seen the big drama about comparing between eras myself. Look at how much better a player was than his peers, the candidates for the top 10 all played the game as if the other team were wading in mud. The great ones will dominate their opposition in any year.

We haven't somehow evolved a better footballer in the last 40 years; they're just bigger and faster due to better diet and training. If Bunton or Coleman were born in 1995 they would be bigger and faster than they were in reality and would still be freaks. A bigger and faster Skilton or Hart would have no problems adapting to modern tactics and playing at an elite level if they came up through the TAC Cup, academies and the like.

That's the whole point though.
Joel Corey , for example, was bigger than the top ruckmen of the 60's, Farmer and Nicholls, taller anyway.
There is no way to compare the best then, IN THEIR POSITIONS, to the best now. Physically not a match, fitness not a match, tactics, everything is really incomparable. Only stats.