Besides GAblett...

[Vdubs]

GAS single handedly won games. GAJ does not.

GAS with 20 possessions was twice as damaging as GAJ with 40 possessions.

And it is ridiculous that people mention Matthews and GAJ in the same sentence.

GAJ has won games. Aren't you watching GC? They don't win many, sure, but he has directly been responsible for many of them.

 

[marty36]

GAS played FF the last 4 years of his career, with stunning results- over 120 goals a year 3 consec years, from a ripe old age. Before that he played there sporadically, and has kicked 14 goals from a wing against your mob.
He had played hbf, wing, hff.
Had he played FF all his career, it is scary to think how many goals he'd have kicked.
Consistency as an issue if you are looking at goals is therefore not viable.
He is marked harshly because his standard was so high that if he didn't do something magical, genius or brilliant, he was marked down.
Kicked 10 goals v Crows one match- 1 lousy Brownlow vote

GAJ and GA are both top 10 potential along with Carey, Matthews and Lockett. plyers that have been mentioned in this thread like Mitchell, Scarlett and Pednedlbury simply are nowhere near the calibre of those suggested, they are great players but should not be discussed as top 10 of all time.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

60 years ago? half those blokes wouldn't even get a game in the two's now. The kicking back then was nothing short of atrocious. Just bang it long in your direction and job done. Apart from being a more physical game I don't see why Fyfe or Buddy wouldn't do as well back then (and more than likely even better).
Or we can give the best player of all time awards to old timers who couldn't kick, handball or even run out a game - but they were significantly better than the hoard of mongoloids around them so its all ok!!!

This is just uninformed.

Plenty of the old timers were fantastic kicks and mastered a variety of kicks that modern players cannot execute.
I know we haven't seen them all but I have memories of Bobby Skilton who was probably equal to anyone EVER with his foot skills. Could kick so well on both feet nobody ever really identified which was his natural foot. The ability to drop kick and stab pass as possessed by Skilton has been lost to the game.

In the 60s there was one game where Ted Whitten kicked 2 goals in the same quarter that were reportedly measured by the press as 90 yards.

While I have never seen any footage there is plenty of evidence (and a book on Laurie Nash) that there were plenty of goals scored from greater range than we ever see today. Nash himself would taunt opponents and just ask them which foot they would like him to kick with.

The pressure on play is significantly different and more skill needs to be executed under pressure, but don't go believing the old timers could not kick as well as any one in the modern game.

 

[HairyO]

This is just uninformed.

Plenty of the old timers were fantastic kicks and mastered a variety of kicks that modern players cannot execute.
I know we haven't seen them all but I have memories of Bobby Skilton who was probably equal to anyone EVER with his foot skills. Could kick so well on both feet nobody ever really identified which was his natural foot. The ability to drop kick and stab pass as possessed by Skilton has been lost to the game.

In the 60s there was one game where Ted Whitten kicked 2 goals in the same quarter that were reportedly measured by the press as 90 yards.

While I have never seen any footage there is plenty of evidence (and a book on Laurie Nash) that there were plenty of goals scored from greater range than we ever see today. Nash himself would taunt opponents and just ask them which foot they would like him to kick with.

The pressure on play is significantly different and more skill needs to be executed under pressure, but don't go believing the old timers could not kick as well as any one in the modern game.

The part-timers back then were able to kick with both feet too. Something the full time highly paid professionals of today seem to struggle with. Sure they were not as fit back then, but the skills were just as solid or even better.

They were not athletes. They were footballers. Now far too many players are athletes.

 

[marty36]

The part-timers back then were able to kick with both feet too. Something the full time highly paid professionals of today seem to struggle with. Sure they were not as fit back then, but the skills were just as solid or even better.

They were not athletes. They were footballers. Now far too many players are athletes.

Thats because they have to be or they dont get drafted

 

[HairyO]

Thats because they have to be or they dont get drafted

Not all coaches put athleticism ahead of football ability. That is why they win flags.

 

[marty36]

Not all coaches put athleticism ahead of football ability. That is why they win flags.

I think its fair to say the likes of A Jarman who had better skills than his bro D Jars, will not be seen again as he was too fat and slow, the day P Matera cut him up by running off him 100 times, I think he realised this.

 

[HairyO]

I think its fair to say the likes of A Jarman who had better skills than his bro D Jars, will not be seen again as he was too fat and slow, the day P Matera cut him up by running off him 100 times, I think he realised this.

Sounds a bit like saying Sam Mitchell is too slow to get a gig at another club.

Pretty sure D Jarman had skills far in excess of his brother, BTW

 

[DangerSloane]

Buddy is nowhere near top 10 unless he produces another 5-6 gun years.

His half a career to date has been quality no doubt, but not even approaching the top echelon

 

[DangerSloane]

Sounds a bit like saying Sam Mitchell is too slow to get a gig at another club.

Pretty sure D Jarman had skills far in excess of his brother, BTW

Wrong.
Even D Jarman would admit that Andrew had better skills.

 

[DangerSloane]

Don't people think it's strange that 7/8 of the top 10 GOAT played in the 80s/90s and no modern players are supposedly close?

There needs to be a seperate part of the forum where old people can complain about how footballers were way better when they were young and the kids these days are wearing the pants too low.

Im born in 86 but I'm not daft enough to think anyone currently playing is good enough to be at that level (except for GAJ).

 

[DangerSloane]

Mitchell is definitely in the conversation with Williams. Only 4 players in history have polled more Brownlow votes than him.

No, no he isnt.
Williams won 2 brownlows and should have a 3rd if not for an umpire with a personal vendetta.
Mitchell has and should win 0.

Not to say he's not a great player, but nowhere near the top 100 all time.

 

[DangerSloane]

Goodes was always a little more dominant in each of the positions he played in compared to Pav.

Pav as a KPF (his position) was far far far better than Goodes at that position.

Goodes had x factor and lots of strings, but Pavlich is the better player.

 

[Donakebab]

When GAJ goes down forward and starts kicking bags of goals on a consistent basis for a few years then he can be considered in the same class as Mathews. Until then, Lethal has GAJ covered in every possible way every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

GAJ is better than his old man. Senior probably had the most talent I have ever seen in his body but was not as consistent as other champs over the years. GAJ has been a lot more consistent than his old man.

GAJ up against Mathews...not even a consideration for mine.

This doesn't make sense. So once Gary adds one specific thing to his game he is comparable, but until then he is covered by Matthews in every other aspect? Surely he is only covered in this one area which is why you have identified it.

 

[CollarJazzKnee]

People forget about the VFL Legends as well. Some of them would be top 10 all time, clearly. But Ablett Jr will be a legend one day.

 

[CollarJazzKnee]

GAJ and GA are both top 10 potential along with Carey, Matthews and Lockett. plyers that have been mentioned in this thread like Mitchell, Scarlett and Pednedlbury simply are nowhere near the calibre of those suggested, they are great players but should not be discussed as top 10 of all time.

Haha I can't believe people bought up Pendlebury in this thread.

 

[beta_condition]

Buddy is nowhere near top 10 unless he produces another 5-6 gun years.

His half a career to date has been quality no doubt, but not even approaching the top echelon

Hmm Ablett didn't start until 2007-14 Buddy has had elite years in 07,08,10,11,12,14 but he some how needs another 5 or 6??

No, no he isnt.
Williams won 2 brownlows and should have a 3rd if not for an umpire with a personal vendetta.
Mitchell has and should win 0.

Not to say he's not a great player, but nowhere near the top 100 all time.

Mitchell could of easily had 3 brownlows and should have one, so hawthorn team that wins 4 flags in 8 years has no players in the top 100?

 

[Vdubs]

Wrong.
Even D Jarman would admit that Andrew had better skills.

Not kicking wise

 

[DangerSloane]

Not kicking wise

Maybe not kicking for goal, but general play kicking Andrew was better.

 

[DangerSloane]

Hmm Ablett didn't start until 2007-14 Buddy has had elite years in 07,08,10,11,12,14 but he some how needs another 5 or 6??

Mitchell could of easily had 3 brownlows and should have one, so hawthorn team that wins 4 flags in 8 years has no players in the top 100?

If you dont want to include Ablett, the Geelong team that won 3 flags in 5 years also has no participants.

When will people realise team success is not directly transferred to individual success.

How many brownlows have come out of Hawthorns 4 flags in 8 years?

 

[DangerSloane]

Hmm Ablett didn't start until 2007-14 Buddy has had elite years in 07,08,10,11,12,14 but he some how needs another 5 or 6??

Mitchell could of easily had 3 brownlows and should have one, so hawthorn team that wins 4 flags in 8 years has no players in the top 100?

Could have easily had 3 brownlows....checks.... has none. No mate. Finishing in the top 5 doesn't necessarily mean you 'could' have won it. It means you didnt. All the while his teams winning 16+ games each season.

Ablett's years have been a LOT better than Buddy's.
Ablett was AA for 8 years straight. Buddy only 5 of those years, arguably in an easier position to make given the lack of quality tall forwards around and them often picking 3 of them in one side.

As I said if Buddy has another good few years, then he can be talked about in that same breath. But at this stage he's no Ablett (Junior or Senior)

 

[beta_condition]

If you dont want to include Ablett, the Geelong team that won 3 flags in 5 years also has no participants.

When will people realise team success is not directly transferred to individual success.

How many brownlows have come out of Hawthorns 4 flags in 8 years?

In the top 100? Ablett Scarlett would both be automatically top 100 players with a few more in the discussion such as Steve Johnson, Corey Enright, Joel Corey and Harry Talyor, to say no Hawthorn player is close to the top 100 of all time is laughable

Could have easily had 3 brownlows....checks.... has none. No mate. Finishing in the top 5 doesn't necessarily mean you 'could' have won it. It means you didnt. All the while his teams winning 16+ games each season.

Ablett's years have been a LOT better than Buddy's.
Ablett was AA for 8 years straight. Buddy only 5 of those years, arguably in an easier position to make given the lack of quality tall forwards around and them often picking 3 of them in one side.

As I said if Buddy has another good few years, then he can be talked about in that same breath. But at this stage he's no Ablett (Junior or Senior)

I wasn't comparing Ablett to Franklin directly simply the fact they've been elite just as long as each other and the "Franklin needs another 5-6 years" is garbage.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

In the top 100? Ablett Scarlett would both be automatically top 100 players with a few more in the discussion such as Steve Johnson, Corey Enright, Joel Corey and Harry Talyor, to say no Hawthorn player is close to the top 100 of all time is laughable

I wasn't comparing Ablett to Franklin directly simply the fact they've been elite just as long as each other and the "Franklin needs another 5-6 years" is garbage.

Again I see perception that is just short sighted.

The time frame to look at is over 100 years.
As good as Scarlett was he certainly is not AUTOMATICALLY top 100. He may be part of the discussion. Steve Johnson, Corey Enright etc would be trailing a long list.

What about Baldock, Whitten, Pratt, Coleman, Dick Reynolds, Laurie Nash, Haydn Bunton. There is an endless list of exceptional players over the history of the game.

 

[DangerSloane]

In the top 100? Ablett Scarlett would both be automatically top 100 players with a few more in the discussion such as Steve Johnson, Corey Enright, Joel Corey and Harry Talyor, to say no Hawthorn player is close to the top 100 of all time is laughable

I wasn't comparing Ablett to Franklin directly simply the fact they've been elite just as long as each other and the "Franklin needs another 5-6 years" is garbage.

Top 100 all time? Most of the guys you listed are barely in the top 100 for the last 15 years. Hell some of them arent even in Geelongs top 100 players ever.

The only ones that have any claim are GAJ and possibly Scarlett, but even then he's been drastically overrated in his retirement.

 

[beta_condition]

Top 100 all time? Most of the guys you listed are barely in the top 100 for the last 15 years. Hell some of them arent even in Geelongs top 100 players ever.

The only ones that have any claim are GAJ and possibly Scarlett, but even then he's been drastically overrated in his retirement.

I didn't say they were in the top 100 I said they were in the discussion of names you would throw up, also please tame me 100 palyers better than Enright over the last 15 years I love to hear.