List Mgmt. Best 22 - 2018

[tigerT]

CEllis missed a large chunk of the last preseason - couldnt do much running which is fair enough - but this is also why I was so bitterly disappointed with how he looked physically. He couldve used the time to bulk up in the gym but didnt and came back still looking like a predraft teen. That was the most disappointing thing about it. Has it all to do bc I have no doubt this season is make or break for him.

Im also concerned that his peer group is running halfbacks, the kid is as slow as a wet week, how is he going to defend back there? Inside mid or bust

doesnt have the pace to play outside and doesnt have the body to play inside = big ******* problem

 

[mopsy]

Again you're challenged and can't do anything more than make excuses of how we're not talking about this player or that player we're talking about Ellis but are happy to mention others to try and back your opinion, which just exposes your hypocrisy even more.

Try actually reading the articles I linked this morning which showed for a fact that Ellis has missed large chunks of training and then explain to us how 2 x 3 week blocks of training prior to the VFL 2015 & 2017 seasons starting allows a player to make up missing months of training. The truth us you can't explain it and you know it and you cant admit it is wrong.

As for Ellis training with the midfielders, you might want to check out how the players are grouped for running drills. They are broken up into 4 groups with the best runners put in group 1 and weaker runs are in lower groups. So half backs like B Ellis are running with midfielders like Lambert. Hopefully Corey running with the Cotchin/Martin group means they are expecting him to step up this year.

This debate really is about two blokes who say they are prepared to accept valid points and both do but then ignore those points as the debate goes on.

It is very much the way The Gun posts and yes because of the way he posts or ignores valid points i do the same and it becomes a merry go round.No one truly willing to concede a thing.

This is a question for evry single poster who reads this.
WHAT IS THE IDEAL NUMBER OF KPDS WE SHOULD HAVE????.

Well for me its just a little bit of plain old logic and learning from other teams and most importantly our own situation.
While im at this, asking for considered and honest opinion How many mids does a list need?

Ok Kpd's. Every single team in the comp plays two what most call genuine Kpd sized players including us with Rance and Astbury.

My argument is you need more than that. you must have a mature body ready in case of injury someting we dont have . That body could be a 30 yr old or a still developing mature bodied 22 24 yo. Is that not just plain old common sense?.
On top of that to me list management to a large degree is all about the long term and succesion planning so when Rance is shot we have a junior coming thru the ranks, ready to step up after all it did take Rance 4 or 5 yrs to become the player he has so 4 kpds is just plain common sense.

What i dont get is why people think this is wrong, most clubs do attempt to go down this path .

How many on this site disagree with this line of thinking and MOST importanly explain why and give an alternative way to address both injury and succesion planning??????.

People need to realise what we have done in snagging a premiership is a fad a short term thing.

 

[TigerImposter]

CEllis missed a large chunk of the last preseason - couldnt do much running which is fair enough - but this is also why I was so bitterly disappointed with how he looked physically. He couldve used the time to bulk up in the gym but didnt and came back still looking like a predraft teen. That was the most disappointing thing about it. Has it all to do bc I have no doubt this season is make or break for him.

Im also concerned that his peer group is running halfbacks, the kid is as slow as a wet week, how is he going to defend back there? Inside mid or bust

doesnt have the pace to play outside and doesnt have the body to play inside = big ******* problem

Also can’t jump to save himself which is a weapon a lot of our smalls have.

 

[prodigy]

This debate really is about two blokes who say they are prepared to accept valid points and both do but then ignore those points as the debate goes on.

It is very much the way The Gun posts and yes because of the way he posts or ignores valid points i do the same and it becomes a merry go round.No one truly willing to concede a thing.

This is a question for evry single poster who reads this.
WHAT IS THE IDEAL NUMBER OF KPDS WE SHOULD HAVE????.

Well for me its just a little bit of plain old logic and learning from other teams and most importantly our own situation.
While im at this, asking for considered and honest opinion How many mids does a list need?

Ok Kpd's. Every single team in the comp plays two what most call genuine Kpd sized players including us with Rance and Astbury.

My argument is you need more than that. you must have a mature body ready in case of injury someting we dont have . That body could be a 30 yr old or a still developing mature bodied 22 24 yo. Is that not just plain old common sense?.
On top of that to me list management to a large degree is all about the long term and succesion planning so when Rance is shot we have a junior coming thru the ranks, ready to step up after all it did take Rance 4 or 5 yrs to become the player he has so 4 kpds is just plain common sense.

What i dont get is why people think this is wrong, most clubs do attempt to go down this path .

How many on this site disagree with this line of thinking and MOST importanly explain why and give an alternative way to address both injury and succesion planning??????.

People need to realise what we have done in snagging a premiership is a fad a short term thing.

I would have thought Garthwaite has a mature enough body to step in if someone goes down? Obviously he isn’t to the standard of either Astbury or Rance but I don’t think many clubs would have high quality key position players waiting in the reserves.
Ben Miller seems to have been drafted to play down there as well as Balta will be playing forward.

Thoughts?


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[tigerT]

complaining about height in our backline? really?

we played 4 talls down there - Broad and Grimes are both 193cms. Garthwaite and Miller developing. Balta long term may end up down there, we have options.
Our backline is the best in the business, tall, mobile, flexible and quick!(apart from Astbury).

 

[Nobby]

Nice to be in this predicament where we don't have a standout 22. Going to be exciting to see who takes the next step this year!!

 

[TigerImposter]

complaining about height in our backline? really?

we played 4 talls down there - Broad and Grimes are both 193cms. Garthwaite and Miller developing. Balta long term may end up down there, we have options.
Our backline is the best in the business, tall, mobile, flexible and quick!(apart from Astbury).

Agree ,this is the least of our worries. Our weaknesses to me really lie in the tall forwards region if Jack was to go down long term , but we do have Moore and even the raw swingman Garthwaite . I don’t trust Griff and I think Chol is miles off . I would hate to see us have to put Hampson in the ruck and Nankervis go forward as this would steal from us that mobile competitive tall inside midfield beast.

 

[This Is Anfield]

Poor

People need to realise what we have done in snagging a premiership is a fad a short term thing.

Wow! A meaningless premiership. Now I've heard it all!

 

[_RT_]

CEllis missed a large chunk of the last preseason - couldnt do much running which is fair enough - but this is also why I was so bitterly disappointed with how he looked physically. He couldve used the time to bulk up in the gym but didnt and came back still looking like a predraft teen. That was the most disappointing thing about it. Has it all to do bc I have no doubt this season is make or break for him.

Im also concerned that his peer group is running halfbacks, the kid is as slow as a wet week, how is he going to defend back there? Inside mid or bust

doesnt have the pace to play outside and doesnt have the body to play inside = big ******* problem

Appears to have been grouped with Cotchin Grigg Lambert McIntosh & Edwards based on this photo

Which would suggest the aim is to have him continue to develop into an inside outside midfielder who can also rotate through the wing or the flanks as he was doing this year.

 

[tora tora tora]

I would have thought Garthwaite has a mature enough body to step in if someone goes down? Obviously he isn’t to the standard of either Astbury or Rance but I don’t think many clubs would have high quality key position players waiting in the reserves.
Ben Miller seems to have been drafted to play down there as well as Balta will be playing forward.

Thoughts?


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Hypothetical No Rance for the season. First thing, scream f aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaq. Then when heart attack subsides ,think Garth, Balta or even Griff.

 

[tora tora tora]

Appears to have been grouped with Cotchin Grigg Lambert McIntosh & Edwards based on this photo

Which would suggest the aim is to have him continue to develop into an inside outside midfielder who can also rotate through the wing or the flanks as he was doing this year.

Macintosh moving out of defence?

 

[prodigy]

Appears to have been grouped with Cotchin Grigg Lambert McIntosh & Edwards based on this photo

Which would suggest the aim is to have him continue to develop into an inside outside midfielder who can also rotate through the wing or the flanks as he was doing this year.

Butler getting upgraded to number 7 and Castagna to 11 it looks like. Where did you find that photo? Happy to see where CEllis is grouped.


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[tora tora tora]

This debate really is about two blokes who say they are prepared to accept valid points and both do but then ignore those points as the debate goes on.

It is very much the way The Gun posts and yes because of the way he posts or ignores valid points i do the same and it becomes a merry go round.No one truly willing to concede a thing.

This is a question for evry single poster who reads this.
WHAT IS THE IDEAL NUMBER OF KPDS WE SHOULD HAVE????.

Well for me its just a little bit of plain old logic and learning from other teams and most importantly our own situation.
While im at this, asking for considered and honest opinion How many mids does a list need?

Ok Kpd's. Every single team in the comp plays two what most call genuine Kpd sized players including us with Rance and Astbury.

My argument is you need more than that. you must have a mature body ready in case of injury someting we dont have . That body could be a 30 yr old or a still developing mature bodied 22 24 yo. Is that not just plain old common sense?.
On top of that to me list management to a large degree is all about the long term and succesion planning so when Rance is shot we have a junior coming thru the ranks, ready to step up after all it did take Rance 4 or 5 yrs to become the player he has so 4 kpds is just plain common sense.

What i dont get is why people think this is wrong, most clubs do attempt to go down this path .

How many on this site disagree with this line of thinking and MOST importanly explain why and give an alternative way to address both injury and succesion planning??????.

People need to realise what we have done in snagging a premiership is a fad a short term thing.

I was interested in seeing what strategy the club used this draft. And I was surprised how tall we went for the most part. Then how small we went with a couple of players. So our list now has plenty of talls to pick from. We all know how much of lottery success at AFL level is and how long it takes to develop a tall that I would have traded one in. Our issue now as REIGNING PREMIER is how to maintain the success

 

[tora tora tora]

Nice to be in this predicament where we don't have a standout 22. Going to be exciting to see who takes the next step this year!!

Well I reckon there's 3 positions up for grabs. Small fwd, 2 small defenders

 

[_RT_]

Butler getting upgraded to number 7 and Castagna to 11 it looks like. Where did you find that photo? Happy to see where CEllis is grouped.


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Think it was Grockadoc who found it on Facebook, bit of a concern that it has been made public given the club has been as tight as a fishes backside last couple of years but I don't think it gives anything away.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Think it was Grockadoc who found it on Facebook, bit of a concern that it has been made public.

That was my 1st thought actually.

 

[KiwiTiger]

Think it was Grockadoc who found it on Facebook, bit of a concern that it has been made public given the club has been as tight as a fishes backside last couple of years but I don't think it gives anything away.

I don’t think it gives much away other than jumper numbers. It looks like a spread of mentoring groups more than structural lines to me.

Haere Ra

 

[juss]

C Ellis is/will be a bust.
Its okay to get one wrong, we stuffed this pick.

 

[Helen Wheels]

This debate really is about two blokes who say they are prepared to accept valid points and both do but then ignore those points as the debate goes on.

It is very much the way The Gun posts and yes because of the way he posts or ignores valid points i do the same and it becomes a merry go round.No one truly willing to concede a thing.

This is a question for evry single poster who reads this.
WHAT IS THE IDEAL NUMBER OF KPDS WE SHOULD HAVE????.

Well for me its just a little bit of plain old logic and learning from other teams and most importantly our own situation.
While im at this, asking for considered and honest opinion How many mids does a list need?

Ok Kpd's. Every single team in the comp plays two what most call genuine Kpd sized players including us with Rance and Astbury.

My argument is you need more than that. you must have a mature body ready in case of injury someting we dont have . That body could be a 30 yr old or a still developing mature bodied 22 24 yo. Is that not just plain old common sense?.
On top of that to me list management to a large degree is all about the long term and succesion planning so when Rance is shot we have a junior coming thru the ranks, ready to step up after all it did take Rance 4 or 5 yrs to become the player he has so 4 kpds is just plain common sense.

What i dont get is why people think this is wrong, most clubs do attempt to go down this path .

How many on this site disagree with this line of thinking and MOST importanly explain why and give an alternative way to address both injury and succesion planning??????.

People need to realise what we have done in snagging a premiership is a fad a short term thing.

http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL ... Strategic Overview Document 2015-2018 LR.pdf

Well, well, well.
This club has a Strategic Overview ... who woulda thunk?

 

[Charlie Pannam]

C Ellis is/will be a bust.
Its okay to get one wrong, we stuffed this pick.

odds are leaning that way, certainly don't think he'll be the midfield player we were all banking on when he first walked through the door. Still there's 40 plus players on the list, to quote the great JD maybe he'll turn out to be a good ordinary footballer.

 

[HTT]

This debate really is about two blokes who say they are prepared to accept valid points and both do but then ignore those points as the debate goes on.

It is very much the way The Gun posts and yes because of the way he posts or ignores valid points i do the same and it becomes a merry go round.No one truly willing to concede a thing.

This is a question for evry single poster who reads this.
WHAT IS THE IDEAL NUMBER OF KPDS WE SHOULD HAVE????.

Well for me its just a little bit of plain old logic and learning from other teams and most importantly our own situation.
While im at this, asking for considered and honest opinion How many mids does a list need?

Ok Kpd's. Every single team in the comp plays two what most call genuine Kpd sized players including us with Rance and Astbury.

My argument is you need more than that. you must have a mature body ready in case of injury someting we dont have . That body could be a 30 yr old or a still developing mature bodied 22 24 yo. Is that not just plain old common sense?.
On top of that to me list management to a large degree is all about the long term and succesion planning so when Rance is shot we have a junior coming thru the ranks, ready to step up after all it did take Rance 4 or 5 yrs to become the player he has so 4 kpds is just plain common sense.

What i dont get is why people think this is wrong, most clubs do attempt to go down this path .

How many on this site disagree with this line of thinking and MOST importanly explain why and give an alternative way to address both injury and succesion planning??????.

People need to realise what we have done in snagging a premiership is a fad a short term thing.

Fidget spinners. Pet Rocks. Crash diets. Winning a premiership.

All big fads, no question at all.

 

[KiwiTiger]

http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/Richmond/Club Promos/IH RFC1668 Strategic Overview Document 2015-2018 LR.pdf

Well, well, well.
This club has a Strategic Overview ... who woulda thunk?

Yep. We strategically planned a fad. That’s quite hard to do.

Absolutely Fadulous.

Haere Ra

 

[mopsy]

I would have thought Garthwaite has a mature enough body to step in if someone goes down? Obviously he isn’t to the standard of either Astbury or Rance but I don’t think many clubs would have high quality key position players waiting in the reserves.
Ben Miller seems to have been drafted to play down there as well as Balta will be playing forward.

Thoughts?


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Garthwaite is only 192cm and 84kg. He is a third tall more in the Grimes or Broad mould than a Rance or Astbury who are tall but have the size to compete against kpf's.

We have several third tall types in
Grimes, Broad, McIntosh, Garthwaite down back and Moore up fwd.


We literally only have the two Kpds on the list and there is no depth , no cover in case of injury, and certainly no junior kpd being groomed for succession or retirement.
Ben Miller has played his best footy as a ruckman he has also played as a fwd. Was definately taken in the hope he would become a key fwd.

I think you will find most clubs have at the least an okay mature kpp in the wings with juniors also on the list.

 

[THE_GUN]

Agree ,this is the least of our worries. Our weaknesses to me really lie in the tall forwards region if Jack was to go down long term , but we do have Moore and even the raw swingman Garthwaite . I don’t trust Griff and I think Chol is miles off . I would hate to see us have to put Hampson in the ruck and Nankervis go forward as this would steal from us that mobile competitive tall inside midfield beast.

You see thats the beauty of the players that were drafted this year TI

Noah Balta : Back,Foward,Ruck
CCJ : Foward , Ruck
Miller : Foward,Back,Ruck

Garth : Foward,Back
Moore: Foward , Ruck
Chol : Foward,Ruck,Back ( I realise he is a way off but the principle remains he is a multi position player if develops)

The best part of our recent drafting has been the multi position abilities of the players drafted as well as their physical abilities (agility,Speed,Leap) as well as their willingness to chase tackle and defend.

I can see a distinct plan in place to have all 22 players playing that are playing the same chase,tackle, harass game plan with no real reliance to any individual and the machine works with all players interchangeable - You will always have players like Rance,Martin that will be harder to replace but thats unavoidable due to their brilliance

The days of the 18 lumbering big men are finished and unfortunately old dinosaurs like mopsy wants to go play 70's football in 2018
He has asked a question that has been answered by our list management and coaches on how many talls are required

The premiership team has answered - 13 is enough

 

[prodigy]

Garthwaite is only 192cm and 84kg. He is a third tall more in the Grimes or Broad mould than a Rance or Astbury who are tall but have the size to compete against kpf's.

We have several third tall types in
Grimes, Broad, McIntosh, Garthwaite down back and Moore up fwd.


We literally only have the two Kpds on the list and there is no depth , no cover in case of injury, and certainly no junior kpd being groomed for succession or retirement.
Ben Miller has played his best footy as a ruckman he has also played as a fwd. Was definately taken in the hope he would become a key fwd.

I think you will find most clubs have at the least an okay mature kpp in the wings with juniors also on the list.

I think you’re putting a lot of stock into the height as a number. Although Garthwaite may be 192cm, I wouldn’t consider that too short to be a key position defender. He seems to have a big wing span which means he would have a decent reach.
In terms of his weight, that looks like the weight he would have been drafted at.

Ben Miller is training with the backline, but might be a swing man. Who knows.


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