List Mgmt. Best 22 - 2018

[THE_GUN]

I think you’re putting a lot of stock into the height as a number. Although Garthwaite may be 192cm, I wouldn’t consider that too short to be a key position defender. He seems to have a big wing span which means he would have a decent reach.
In terms of his weight, that looks like the weight he would have been drafted at.

Ben Miller is training with the backline, but might be a swing man. Who knows.


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Mathew Scarlett goes ok for a 192cm 3rd tall defender


Not to mention that there have been numerous reports by people who know Garth mentioning he is now 195cm

 

[_RT_]

By my count we have 14 KPP/rucks on our list and I think it's perfectly balanced after the draft and especially when you look at the way they have been put into groups in that photo.

KPD: Rance Astbury Grimes Garthwaite Broad
Rucks: Nankervis Hampson Soldo Griffiths* Chol*
KPF: Riewoldt Moore Coleman-Jones* Balta*
* - can play multiple positions

Some will look at Garthwaite and Broad at 192cm/84-85kg, even Grimes 193 & 89and say they are too small to play KPP, but with clubs looking at moving to more mobile types in the way Jack plays as our Key Forward. He is listed at 195cm but only weighs 91kg. Now compare that to Walker at Adelaide who is 194cm but weighs 101kg. Jacks big strength is that he can get up the ground impact around the middle and then out work an opponent back into the F50. Walker is more of a lead and take a grab and then launch a long bomb. To me the Crows most dangerous forward is Tom Lynch 191cm & 88kg who averaged 20 disposals & 7 marks and covers the ground much like Jack does. He is too mobile for an Astbury type to play on

Against a tall forward like that guys like Grimes Broad and Garthwaite will come to be the regular type of tall defender. Mobile, with speed/endurance, some strength and good skills especially as sides start to look to copy our high pressure smaller structure. Of course there will be a need for the big bodied types but they won't be in as big a demand as they once were.

If you look at our draftees this year they are all mobile types who can play a variety of roles either forward and back or forward and ruck or even all 3 roles. Even though they are heavier than Jack at 93-95kg for both Balta and Miller(currently grouped with rebound defenders) they were touted as highly mobile players. I reckon as they develop in the system they may drop a couple of kgs and look to improve their mobility much like Jack has done as he dropped 4-5kgs from his early career.

 

[purr hana]

I think you’re putting a lot of stock into the height as a number. Although Garthwaite may be 192cm, I wouldn’t consider that too short to be a key position defender. He seems to have a big wing span which means he would have a decent reach.
In terms of his weight, that looks like the weight he would have been drafted at.

Ben Miller is training with the backline, but might be a swing man. Who knows.


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Gidday Prodigy, know for a fact that Garth is now between 193-194 and 91 ks and by all accounts is still holding around 10 min 3k and has improved his first 3m speed carrying that extra bulk-and you are right that 84 and 192 was lodged in jan 16 by the bushies-hope this is a help, cheers.

 

[prodigy]

Gidday Prodigy, know for a fact that Garth is now between 193-194 and 91 ks and by all accounts is still holding around 10 min 3k and has improved his first 3m speed carrying that extra bulk-and you are right that 84 and 192 was lodged in jan 16 by the bushies-hope this is a help, cheers.

Thanks for the clarification mate


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[Grockadoc]

Think it was Grockadoc who found it on Facebook, bit of a concern that it has been made public given the club has been as tight as a fishes backside last couple of years but I don't think it gives anything away.

Was posted on a RFC Supporter page from someone who went to see the cup. The biard was in the gym so I don't think the club were too concerned with keeping things under wraps given how many people would have passed through.

 

[mopsy]

Nice to be in this predicament where we don't have a standout 22. Going to be exciting to see who takes the next step this year!!

Your right we have a standout 4 or 5 and the rest !!!!!!

well they are no better than most players on all teams lists. Yet to argue this well people get upset and play the man. Im fine with that in fact used to it from the blinkered crowd.

Yep. We strategically planned a fad. That’s quite hard to do.

Absolutely Fadulous.

Haere Ra

Your actually wrong the whole footy world knows we went down the path we did because we had no other options but go small. Why because we hung onto hack talls for too long and did little to get the numbers on board.I mean to say your a club follower who laps up everything they say and the club itself has said they went small because of the lack of options. It caught everyone out but like the dogs it wont again .I mean to say even the club has acknowledged the need for more tall on the list and in particular another key fwd.

As far as a fad well it certainly is we play small because we have no other option and that option goes against what has been an over whelming norm. It wont last because, well teams will put work into what is new. they always do and the norm is inevitably resumed.

You do realise we are the only team who goes so small AND HAS HAD SO FEW NUMBERS OF MEDIUMS AND TALLS ON THEIR LIST. we won something we probably should not have. . we all take the flag with open arms but history says it wont continue theres a 130 yr history that says otherwise.

 

[THE_GUN]

Your right we have a standout 4 or 5 and the rest !!!!!!

well they are no better than most players on all teams lists. Yet to argue this well people get upset and play the man. Im fine with that in fact used to it from the blinkered crowd.


Your actually wrong the whole footy world knows we went down the path we did because we had no other options but go small. Why because we hung onto .

Mate seriously get off this high horse thinking your right about everything, We have won the FLAG with a mobile team/fwd line that nobody could contain and to be perfectly honest not many teams will be able to field the structure of defenders to combat this so let me just say Im glad my team has done it and won the flag. - You are wrong !! The premiership was won by Richmond , The recruiters deemed thats the way to go and only have 13 talls on the list

Coaches and football staff have proven this is the way so just take it like a man and stop whinging.

On the "We only have 4-5 standouts ........... Really what are you expecting 22 stars ?
There wouldnt be a team apart from GWS that has as many top end players that we have maybe Geelong if all the pensioners can perform

 

[mopsy]

I think you’re putting a lot of stock into the height as a number. Although Garthwaite may be 192cm, I wouldn’t consider that too short to be a key position defender. He seems to have a big wing span which means he would have a decent reach.
In terms of his weight, that looks like the weight he would have been drafted at.

Ben Miller is training with the backline, but might be a swing man. Who knows.


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I agree there have been plenty of blokes play KPP at 190 Mal Michael springs straight to mind. Trouble is Michael and nearly all kpps have size as well.I mean to say Mal Michael played at 100kg.

Be honest at Afl level Garthwaite projects as a third tall rather than kp.
I think blokes like Easton Wood great players who is only 187cm and can play tall but you are never going to ask him to play body to body one v one on the big tall fwds in the comp.

Ben Miller maybe training with the backs and he may well become a good one, BUT!!!!!! HIS BEST FOOTY WHAT GOT HIM DRAFTED IS AS AN UNDERSIZED RUCKMAN WHO COULD PINCH HIT FWD. It also helped that his sprint times were very good for a bloke his size.
We havent drafted a backman but a ruck/fwd who we HOPE can maybe become a defender.For where we took him that seems a long shot.

Its funny we had a review that said play the players to their strengths and where they play best and lo and behold we have some success. yet we ignore this principal with some of our new draftees.

Over the last 10 15 yrs we have totally ****ed up a lot of tall players by doing this.

But hey lets assume he is a kpp where does that leave us the premiers.
Hmm rance does a knee week one and Astbury who has /is prone to injury has a 8 week injury in week 5. Are you seriously saying throw Garthwaite in he can play kpd with his size and immaturity.

 

[mopsy]

Mate seriously get off this high horse thinking your right about everything, We have won the FLAG with a mobile team/fwd line that nobody could contain and to be perfectly honest not many teams will be able to field the structure of defenders to combat this so let me just say Im glad my team has done it and won the flag. - You are wrong !! The premiership was won by Richmond , The recruiters deemed thats the way to go and only have 13 talls on the list

Coaches and football staff have proven this is the way so just take it like a man and stop whinging.

On the "We only have 4-5 standouts ........... Really what are you expecting 22 stars ?
There wouldnt be a team apart from GWS that has as many top end players that we have maybe Geelong if all the pensioners can perform

As i said against my better judgement i replied to one of your posts. I expected nonsense and a very blikered outlook with a lot of ignoring what is said. Needless to say i havent been disappointed. I think from here on in you go back on ignore until you wake up to yourself.

 

[THE_GUN]

As i said against my better judgement i replied to one of your posts. I expected nonsense and a very blikered outlook with a lot of ignoring what is said. Needless to say i havent been disappointed. I think from here on in you go back on ignore until you wake up to yourself.

Mate you dont have to reply to any of my post i really couldnt give a flying F
But im more than happy to pot the rubbish you post about our club who has just won a flag and your still doing the same negative posting about.

"I think from here on in you go back on ignore until you wake up to yourself"

What a clown

 

[mopsy]

Mate you dont have to reply to any of my post i really couldnt give a flying F
But im more than happy to pot the rubbish you post about our club who has just won a flag and your still doing the same negative posting about.

"I think from here on in you go back on ignore until you wake up to yourself"

What a clown

Good onya bud theres no pizes for second. so see ya hopefully way down the track lmfao.

 

[THE_GUN]

Good onya bud theres no pizes for second. so see ya hopefully way down the track lmfao.

Yeah Agreed now go and stand with your mate Tex in your Anger stance , I'll just stand by Richmond and enjoy our flag

 

[mopsy]

Gidday Prodigy, know for a fact that Garth is now between 193-194 and 91 ks and by all accounts is still holding around 10 min 3k and has improved his first 3m speed carrying that extra bulk-and you are right that 84 and 192 was lodged in jan 16 by the bushies-hope this is a help, cheers.

Hmm so im right he was lodged at 192 and 84,
Would be enormously surprised if hes has put on 7kg in one season with all the aerobic work thats needed. even if correct he still projects s as a grimes type.
He is definately more suited to playing as a third tall on a types like well adelaides Mc govern.

I remember the club listing Conca at 185 and for yr i insisted he would be lucky to be 180cm. well it turns oput hes 181cm from what i can glean happy to be shown im wrong.
Again hes not huge in fact garth at this level looks very much a third Tall type.

 

[mopsy]

http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/Richmond/Club Promos/IH RFC1668 Strategic Overview Document 2015-2018 LR.pdf

Well, well, well.
This club has a Strategic Overview ... who woulda thunk?

Well hello Angry Helen. Just one Q. Can you let us all know what this so called over view is and how it works.

 

[prodigy]

Well hello Angry Helen. Just one Q. Can you let us all know what this so called over view is and how it works.

I’m just trying to be civil here, but I’d just like you to answer one question for me.
Why do you dismiss any opinion that doesn’t support yours?
You seem to work off the assumption that you’re always right. I just don’t get it, no one can have a discussion with you. I try and I try, but you just jump off the handle at any opposite opinion.


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[mopsy]

I’m just trying to be civil here, but I’d just like you to answer one question for me.
Why do you dismiss any opinion that doesn’t support yours?
You seem to work off the assumption that you’re always right. I just don’t get it, no one can have a discussion with you. I try and I try, but you just jump off the handle at any opposite opinion.


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Now your being pathetic. You asked for an opinion on Garthwaite and i gave you mine.So it differs to you but i did give my reasons why i think hes a third tall rather than a kpp. You dont have to agree you need to pt up an argument that will change my mind.

Cmon atm he lacks the size to play kpp at AFL level. At best 193cm im allowed to question that arent i. At best 91 kg.
ffs you want him to take on someone like Hawkins or think he can down the track??????? of course not we leave that to our genuine sized kpps in Rance and Astbury.

What the fcuck are we arguing here the difference between a third tall and a kpp i reaqlly dont care where he ends up as long as he ends up a good player but for me he projects as a third tall rather than a kp and i can tell ya even the most optimistic would have him on the low end of the kpp scale. ffs Kamdyn McIntosh is bigger Skinny Grimes is bigger no one calls them kpps.

Look if you thinks hes kpp material fine i disagree ivbe had that stance from the start mainly because he does not tick enough of the physical boxes to be a kpp at this level.He may well surprise me i hope he does but atm he is what he is and a lot of things says down the track thats how he will stay.

By the way my reply was to Helen Wheels not you.

 

[biaseddustyfan]

round 1 vs GF side

out: broad, rioli
in: menadue/markov, bolton/moore

whichever one officially trains the biggest house down in preseason makes each position

 

[prodigy]

Now your being pathetic. You asked for an opinion on Garthwaite and i gave you mine.So it differs to you but i did give my reasons why i think hes a third tall rather than a kpp. You dont have to agree you need to pt up an argument that will change my mind.

Cmon atm he lacks the size to play kpp at AFL level. At best 193cm im allowed to question that arent i. At best 91 kg.
ffs you want him to take on someone like Hawkins or think he can down the track??????? of course not we leave that to our genuine sized kpps in Rance and Astbury.

What the fcuck are we arguing here the difference between a third tall and a kpp i reaqlly dont care where he ends up as long as he ends up a good player but for me he projects as a third tall rather than a kp and i can tell ya even the most optimistic would have him on the low end of the kpp scale. ffs Kamdyn McIntosh is bigger Skinny Grimes is bigger no one calls them kpps.

Look if you thinks hes kpp material fine i disagree ivbe had that stance from the start mainly because he does not tick enough of the physical boxes to be a kpp at this level.He may well surprise me i hope he does but atm he is what he is and a lot of things says down the track thats how he will stay.

By the way my reply was to Helen Wheels not you.

I was just generally speaking. Not referring to our Garthwaite discussion, which is why I didn’t quote a post from that discussion.
I’m not trying to pick an argument. I’m just trying to understand why you’re always on the defensive and why you think your opinion is spot on all the time.


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[THE_GUN]

I’m just trying to be civil here, but I’d just like you to answer one question for me.
Why do you dismiss any opinion that doesn’t support yours?

Now your being pathetic. You asked for an opinion on Garthwaite and i gave you mine.So it differs to you but i did give my reasons why i think hes a third tall rather than a kpp. You dont have to agree you need to pt up an argument that will change my mind.

Cmon atm he lacks the size to play kpp at AFL level. At best 193cm im allowed to question that arent i. At best 91 kg.
ffs you want him to take on someone like Hawkins or think he can down the track??????? of course not we leave that to our genuine sized kpps in Rance and Astbury.

What the fcuck are we arguing here the difference between a third tall and a kpp i reaqlly dont care where he ends up as long as he ends up a good player but for me he projects as a third tall rather than a kp and i can tell ya even the most optimistic would have him on the low end of the kpp scale. ffs Kamdyn McIntosh is bigger Skinny Grimes is bigger no one calls them kpps.

Why is this bloke on a public forum when he just wants to hear his own voice , Should be Banned 'Again' as nothing has changed

 

[KiwiTiger]

Your right we have a standout 4 or 5 and the rest !!!!!!

well they are no better than most players on all teams lists. Yet to argue this well people get upset and play the man. Im fine with that in fact used to it from the blinkered crowd.


Your actually wrong the whole footy world knows we went down the path we did because we had no other options but go small. Why because we hung onto hack talls for too long and did little to get the numbers on board.I mean to say your a club follower who laps up everything they say and the club itself has said they went small because of the lack of options. It caught everyone out but like the dogs it wont again .I mean to say even the club has acknowledged the need for more tall on the list and in particular another key fwd.

As far as a fad well it certainly is we play small because we have no other option and that option goes against what has been an over whelming norm. It wont last because, well teams will put work into what is new. they always do and the norm is inevitably resumed.

You do realise we are the only team who goes so small AND HAS HAD SO FEW NUMBERS OF MEDIUMS AND TALLS ON THEIR LIST. we won something we probably should not have. . we all take the flag with open arms but history says it wont continue theres a 130 yr history that says otherwise.

Interesting analysis of the strategy of the club to achieve success.

Talls and smalls.

There are many other parts.

Haere Ra

 

[purr hana]

You blokes are funny, i ''love it''. I am spot on with Garth, and Shai has found 6 ks in the off season, am i wrong again, you decide? fellas. This should make him stronger at ground level and keep him from flying against our taller brigade and messing up 5 or 6 marking contests to take ''one'' screamer!! Also i believe every time he found that high flying mark, he hurt himself coming down, started limping and was lucky to play a second half of any game? judge me on that comment please? At 175cm and his excitement levels he produces, shouldn't he be confined to ground work than in the air? if he keeps hurting himself going high, doesn't that ''effect'' his ''longevity'' in this torrid game of AFL, your thoughts fellas and girls, cheers.

 

[Helen Wheels]

Well hello Angry Helen. Just one Q. Can you let us all know what this so called over view is and how it works.

It works by setting goals and achieving them. Have a read of the document.

 

[Helen Wheels]

By the way my reply was to Helen Wheels not you.

Yes, prodigy. You need to have special permission under the Freedom of Information Act to read or respond to any posts on an open internet forum. Didn't you know that?

 

[Goldust]

I don’t even know what you three are debating anymore. All three of you agree he is physically under-developed. All three of you agree he isn’t best 22.
The only difference of opinion is that RT believes he is on the fringe of best 22 (as do I) but TI and GD think he is around the 30 mark.

TI doesn’t believe CEllis has suffered as a result of limited pre-seasons and uses Graham as an example to support it.
Completely ignoring that Jack Graham has a ready made AFL body.
When you’re as slight as CEllis was, you can’t put muscle on overnight. He is getting there.


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Neither do I mate because I originally posted that CEllis had several glaring and major deficiencies in his game and that a swag of players were ahead of him in the queue ... the likes of Markov, Short, Menadue, whether some like it or not Miles, Lloyd, Bolton etc... and that he has plenty of work to do.
Yet -RT- seemed to take issue with that and accused me of wanting him to fail (that old chestnut of an excuse that he and plenty of others like to trot out when a player is critiqued) and bagging my own. I merely pointed out that he has those deficiencies and he is way off being what is expected of a first round pick (and to be honest way off what's expected of a second round pick), when we have players team in the third and fourth rounds of his draft and the rookie draft ahead of him. He has fought me at every turn and made CEllis out to be the next big thing. Then I get on here Friday and that same poster extensively details the long list of deficiencies in CEllis' game. Like WTF????? He's done a 180 degree turnaround. I'll take it as this, the typical Big Footy scenario of certain posters just wanting to disagree with certain posters because of who they are. A bit like you and me. I'll be 100% right on something but you'd go the other way just for the sake.

 

[mopsy]

I was just generally speaking. Not referring to our Garthwaite discussion, which is why I didn’t quote a post from that discussion.
I’m not trying to pick an argument. I’m just trying to understand why you’re always on the defensive and why you think your opinion is spot on all the time.


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You think im trying to pick ann argument i answered your post nothing more.
On the defensive na just voicing my opinion which happens to differ to some .I would say im entitled to defend that stance prove it right and try and change other peoples minds.It is exactly what others do on here.

Im happy to be proven wrong but when people just ignore points and questions and make off the cuff remarks or go off on tangents thus moving the posts as replies, which is exactly what happens then im hardly going to change my mind.

I asked for peoples thoughts on how many kpds we need not one person has come up with a number and the reasons for that number. yet here i am suggesting 4 kpds is what is needed and given what i think are very good reasons for that number. When people actually put some substance into their replies and give reasons for their thoughts on the actual question then i may well change the way i post.

Tell me how many kpds do you think we should have.
Ive said 4 Rance Astbury in the seniors. Then we need a mature body in case one of them goes down and a good junior who actually projects fwd as an actual kpd looking after the long term. Both playing in the twos actually mirroring what we do in the seniors.

Are you prepared to give your thoughts on this and if you differ give your reasons why as i do.Are you prepared to debate why we should not have a mature in cover and why we should not be looking after the long term with a junior. is that not what a big part of list management is about.

While im at it no one has said why having 16 talls 190cm thru 200cm plus is too many. That leaves 28 spots for mids and flankers can someone tell me why that is not enough? How does it affect our ability to play enough quick players with mids the simple fact is it doesnt any thinking person can see that.

You want a debate fine show me im wrong by addressing what ive said.