List Mgmt. Best 22 for 2014 + structures and strategies

[erbenz]

I'm not convinced that accurately describes Glass's role. It's not like Glass is permanently manned up on the third forward. Are we sure he's not still just the FB?

Well, I'm not privy to Match Committee's plans but I'd assume he's not just the FB given the way he zones off, runs off his man, and plays as a general sweeper.

I think we'd need Brown to fully take over at FB, allowing Schofield in as a third tall. That may happen but I wouldn't describe that as a straight swap into what Glass is doing currently.

You're right regarding Brown, and Schofield is the least essential of the three, but we do need someone with sweeping ability. Schofield seems further ahead than McGovern at that, at least right now.

 

[Patron]

At times today i looked around and our forward 50 was just talls. At one point i saw Cox, Darling and Sinclair. As well as our talls compete when they hit the deck we really are just 1 tall too many. NN made some pretty poor chasing efforts today a few times and just in general looked buggered. His fitness still ain't ready. Not sure how long its going to take.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

I'm not convinced that accurately describes Glass's role. It's not like Glass is permanently manned up on the third forward. Are we sure he's not still just the FB?

I think we'd need Brown to fully take over at FB, allowing Schofield in as a third tall. That may happen but I wouldn't describe that as a straight swap into what Glass is doing currently.

I think it's pretty obvious that Glass has been freed up a lot more. He's been a lot more offensive.

But you're right Schofield isn't fundamentally the same player as Glass...

 

[Wet Toast Rule]

NicNat didnt chase as well as he could, but I'm happy to cut him some slack with lack of match fitness and a 6 day break.
Also rotations would have been down due to the injuries.

 

[ChampRevesby]

NicNat didnt chase as well as he could, but I'm happy to cut him some slack with lack of match fitness and a 6 day break.
Also rotations would have been down due to the injuries.

Question: why is it taking him so long to get match fit? remember he started his regime about 2 weeks before everyone else.

 

[Obeanie1]

In the WAFL he's playing the generalising 3rd tall role that Glass plays for us at AFL level. Obviously circumstance dictated this wouldn't happen today but Schofield did play well last week and his game isn't something that can be evaluated by pure statistical impact.

Don't get me wrong, Glass is well ahead at the moment but ideally I see Schofield knocking on Glass' door by the end of this year.

Glass no longer takes the best opposition KP forward and is spending more time zoning off and playing on players tall and small. I call that playing the third tall role but others don't agree. In my view third tall doesn't mean third best it means you don't play on the oppositions best two KP forwards but a support role and provide coverage in case of rotations / injuries.

MacKenzie gets the best opposition tall forward and Brown plays the more lock down 2nd KP tall. Glass helps these two by zoning off, blocking, cutting in front and playing the backline general role similar to what Scarlett did later in his career. Glass makes decent decisions with ball in hand but also is a massive help to those playing on the best opposition talls.

And yes its a similar role to what Schofield can also play. Schofield is less of a lock down defender and more of a rebounding third tall who again can provide coverage for rotations / injuries. When Glass does retire no doubt Schofield will get more games.

 

[Quinz]

Question: why is it taking him so long to get match fit? remember he started his regime about 2 weeks before everyone else.

He wasn't in full training until the last week of the pre-season.

 

[Monkey Worshipper]

Watching the hawks sort out the dockers it is absolutely clear that everybody needs to run and even KP players must contribute through what we call the middle of the field.
We look to be on the right track. Players than can not fit the role are gone. Time will tell who can and can not but we look to be selecting those that look most likely (and can kick).

Lyon said on Melbourne radio this morning that 'mids' with no speed endurance will be replaced. Sheed looks a good draft as does Ellis and Yoe.

It will be interesting when we play hawks, cats, essendon and the two development teams who are well stocked with speed endurance.

Good

Counting the weeks down until Ploddus has his bags packed for him.

 

[Keys]

Good

Counting the weeks down until Ploddus has his bags packed for him.

Don't hold your breath. Whatever the collective thoughts of this board on priddis are, he has the faith of the match committee and isn't likely to be losing his spot anytime soon barring injury

If only the likes of waters had the same sort of durability as priddis

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Simpson has a lot of time to build a side he wants to and isn't in the business of taking an axe to the side Woosha built. Not that there aren't immediate threats to Priddis in our squad.

 

[Ian Dargie]

I think it's pretty obvious that Glass has been freed up a lot more. He's been a lot more offensive.

Still reckon he's closer to a key defender than a third tall.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Glass no longer takes the best opposition KP forward and is spending more time zoning off and playing on players tall and small. I call that playing the third tall role but others don't agree. In my view third tall doesn't mean third best it means you don't play on the oppositions best two KP forwards but a support role and provide coverage in case of rotations / injuries.

MacKenzie gets the best opposition tall forward and Brown plays the more lock down 2nd KP tall. Glass helps these two by zoning off, blocking, cutting in front and playing the backline general role similar to what Scarlett did later in his career. Glass makes decent decisions with ball in hand but also is a massive help to those playing on the best opposition talls.

But Glass still spends time on one of the opposition's best two forwards. That's why it's probably not entirely accurate to call him a 'third tall'. Brett Jones/Jaymie Graham was a third tall.

Mackenzie is clearly our No.1 key defender. Everyone gets that. I'd say Glass and Brown are sharing the role of second lock-down defender.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Still reckon he's closer to a key defender than a third tall.

Because he's no Schofield when it comes to rebounding and fair enough. Before Brown was playing you couldn't argue in the slightest that Glass was our third defender, now you probably can.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Because he's no Schofield when it comes to rebounding and fair enough. Before Brown was playing you couldn't argue in the slightest that Glass was our third defender, now you probably can.

I reckon Glass and Brown are sharing that role. There are still times when Glass plays as a lockdown defender on one of the opposition's key forwards. Third talls don't do that.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

But Glass still spends time on one of the opposition's best two forwards. That's why it's probably not entirely accurate to call him a 'third tall'. Brett Jones/Jaymie Graham was a third tall.

Mackenzie is clearly our No.1 key defender. Everyone gets that. I'd say Glass and Brown are sharing the role of second lock-down defender.

Still spends time on them, yes. But spends the 3rd most time on the KPP in that case making him the 3rd tall.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Still spends time on them, yes. But spends the 3rd most time on the KPP in that case making him the 3rd tall.

When people refer to a third tall, it doesn't simply refer to the fact that there are three guys over 190cm. It also refers to the nature of that guy's role.

The reality is that Glass is still an awesome lock-down defender who is able to play on an opposition's key forward. He is still playing as a key defender.

I would suggest Brown has more licence to leave his man and run up-field than Glass. Didn't Brown kick a goal from the forward pocket on the weekend? When was the last time you saw Glass in that part of the ground?

 

[Obeanie1]

I reckon Glass and Brown are sharing that role. There are still times when Glass plays as a lockdown defender on one of the opposition's key forwards. Third talls don't do that.

When we play against Franklin take a look at who plays on him. MacKenzie and Brown will take most of it and Glass will assisting as the 2nd or 3rd man up than standing shoulder to shoulder with Franklin for large stages of the game.

So when the Eagles play MacKenzie + Brown + Glass all three are big enough, strong enough and quick enough to play on the #1 forward. So how does that work? None of them are third tall back men?

Just think the Eagles are using his experience and leadership to read the play, leave his man tall or small and play the third tall role. Knows how to block space and intercept the ball in front of the leading #1 tall. His rebound stats / possessions have increased over the past couple of years indicate that.

So could Glass run with Riewoldt like MacKenzie did? What about Leon Cameron? T Cloke?

The Glass you are describing played that role back in 2005 and 2006 at his peak. He's playing a very different role now 7-8 years later.

 

[Ian Dargie]

When we play against Franklin take a look at who plays on him. MacKenzie and Brown will take most of it and Glass will assisting as the 2nd or 3rd man up than standing shoulder to shoulder with Franklin for large stages of the game.

I'd have thought it will be Mackenzie for the majority and then Glass and Brown will be matched up on other guys, depending who plays forward for Sydney.

I think we've had this discussion before. Except last time, you were telling me that Schofield was now our No.2 key defender. That turned out to be bullshit, didn't it, Fridgie? I told you over and over that Schofield wasn't our second key defender but you just couldn't get your little head around it.

While I accept that Brown is more in the KP mould than Schofield was/is, maybe you shouldn't be too quick to recycle that losing argument with a different name attached. At least not without acknowledging your previous fresh-air swing. And, my word, you've had a few of those, haven't you?

So when the Eagles play MacKenzie + Brown + Glass all three are big enough, strong enough and quick enough to play on the #1 forward. So how does that work? None of them are third tall back men?

I'd say they all essentially play as key defenders. It's why we weren't sure if we could play all three at once. But we've gone that way and it seems to be working so far.

If we accept that Mackenzie is the CHB and No.1 key defender, I still think you can make the case that Glass is the genuine FB, although Brown is showing he is capable. We're lucky to have that flexibility.

We want to ease Brown into the FB role to replace Glass permanently but Glass is still so good one-on-one that it makes no sense for him to be relegated to 'third tall' status. If we have the chance to use Glass on another team's second-best forward, then that's going to be a win for us most weeks.

Just think the Eagles are using his experience and leadership to read the play, leave his man tall or small and play the third tall role.

Glass is still fundamentally a lock-down, one-on-one defender. Sure, there are times when he's good enough to peel off and help out a teammate but that's just because he's an awesome FB. The fact he does that doesn't mean he is no longer playing as a key defender. It means he's a great key defender.

So could Glass run with Riewoldt like MacKenzie did? What about Leon Cameron? T Cloke?

The Glass you are describing played that role back in 2005 and 2006 at his peak. He's playing a very different role now 7-8 years later.

The difference is that Glass always took the best forward in 2005-06. He had to because Hunter and Brett Jones weren't really up to playing on the gorillas. But having Mackenzie now gives us the luxury of leaving Glass to defend on the last line, which suits him more than chasing guys up to the wings.

Mackenzie will generally take guys like Riewoldt, who work further up the ground, while Glass or Brown will take whoever plays deeper. Against Collingwood, I'd expect Mackenzie to take Cloke, simply because he is a million miles more threatening than whoever else they'll have in there. Who's Collingwood's second forward these days? White? Reid? Goldsack?

 

[flamingEMBERS]

I'd say they all essentially play as key defenders. It's why we weren't sure if we could play all three at once. But we've gone that way and it seems to be working so far.

If we accept that Mackenzie is the CHB and No.1 key defender, I still think you can make the case that Glass is the genuine FB, although Brown is showing he is capable. We're lucky to have that flexibility.

We want to ease Brown into the FB role to replace Glass permanently but Glass is still so good one-on-one that it makes no sense for him to be relegated to 'third tall' status. If we have the chance to use Glass on another team's second-best forward, then that's going to be a win for us most weeks.

No one is relegating the importance of Darren Glass. I still believe he is more important and influential to our team than Brown. Brown however takes the 2nd best forward each week and Glass has another dangerous forward. They play different roles. In modern football theres much more running, its a time where forwards are getting possessions in the back half of the ground and defenders are kicking goals regularly. Now Brown plays on the 2nd best forward but he is also good at running off his opponent and like on the weekend can kick a goal. So when Brown pushes forward so he can be utilised offensively and we can take advantage of his size and run Glass will stay back and rotate to (you guessed it) the 2nd best defender, he will also do it for Mackenzie and others. Now with modern football opposing forwards often push up the ground, leaving a a situation where there is loose defenders back. In this situation Glass is often patrolling the last line of defence. So you are correct he spends more time in the back line but that doesn't necessarily mean he's on the 2nd best defender.

 

[Ian Dargie]

No one is relegating the importance of Darren Glass.

No. But they may be mischaracterising his role. And one guy, in particular, has had more than one go at it.

Brown however takes the 2nd best forward each week and Glass has another dangerous forward.

Is that a fact?

Do you really think that's how match-ups work? Mackenzie takes No.1 and stays on him all day, while Brown takes No.2 and stays on him all day?

Surely you would recognise that this is a woefully simplistic summary - and ultimately inaccurate - of how our defence functions.

The reality is that we have three tall defenders, all capable of playing one-on-one lockdown roles.

They play different roles.

Not really. They are both essentially key defenders, although that gives us flexibility in terms of match-ups.

In modern football theres much more running, its a time where forwards are getting possessions in the back half of the ground and defenders are kicking goals regularly.

There's more running?! Wow, I never thought of it like that.

As for defenders "kicking goals regularly", how many goals do you reckon Mackenzie and Glass will kick between them this year? Not many. Why oversell it?

Now Brown plays on the 2nd best forward but he is also good at running off his opponent and like on the weekend can kick a goal. So when Brown pushes forward so he can be utilised offensively and we can take advantage of his size and run Glass will stay back and rotate to (you guessed it) the 2nd best defender, he will also do it for Mackenzie and others.

When Brown kicked that goal against St Kilda, I doubt it was case of him "running off his man" from one end to the other. More likely, he had been swung forward temporarily.

Surely this creates a problem for your argument that Brown takes the second-best forward every week. Is he our first-choice FB and our swing man at the same time?

That said, I doubt we're going to see him spend too much time in attack unless other guys get injured.

Now with modern football opposing forwards often push up the ground, leaving a a situation where there is loose defenders back. In this situation Glass is often patrolling the last line of defence. So you are correct he spends more time in the back line but that doesn't necessarily mean he's on the 2nd best defender.

I never said he is always on the second-best forward.

I said he remains an excellent one-on-one key defender who still spends enough time playing as a true FB that it doesn't make sense to characterise him as a 'third tall'.

 

[Obeanie1]

I'd say they all essentially play as key defenders. It's why we weren't sure if we could play all three at once. But we've gone that way and it seems to be working so far.

Glass is still fundamentally a lock-down, one-on-one defender. Sure, there are times when he's good enough to peel off and help out a teammate but that's just because he's an awesome FB. The fact he does that doesn't mean he is no longer playing as a key defender. It means he's a great key defender.
?

Thought I'd cut the BS from your post and just let the great man himself speak.

I'm not cracking yet: Glass
The West Australian
MARK DUFFIELD The West Australian March 22, 2014, 10:25 am

"He reckons he has handed over the responsibility of playing on the opposition's monster forwards to Eric Mackenzie, which is true, but Glass doesn't get outmarked when he is one out with the big blokes anyway.
And he reckons that he isn't getting any quicker but the smaller blokes don't give him the run-around too often either........

In the meantime, he says everyone is simply looking for improvement and that he will be expected to be at least as flexible in the opponents he can match up on as he was last year, perhaps more so.

"You have just got to continue to work and improve. I am not getting any quicker," Glass said.

"It is a real mix and you end up on pretty much everyone at some stage.

"They swing mids forward and all sorts of stuff. It is not like when I first started when you would lock down on someone and that was it.
"You tend to match up on them all through the game. Most back lines have to be pretty flexible these days.
"From day one when Simmo arrived he spoke about adding some more versatility to our team and I think you will see that as the season goes on and you have already seen a glimpse of it in the pre-season.

"We will work pretty hard to make sure it happens."

I'd say that Glass would know more about how he plays the modern game than Gunner Dargie. But once Gunners mind is made up its made up.

 

[Ian Dargie]

Thought I'd cut the BS from your post and just let the great man himself speak.

Which part of this is meant to refute what I've said?

Throughout, I've said that having three tall defenders – Mackenzie, Brown and Glass – gives us greater flexibility. Glass is essentially confirming that.

Hey Fridge Magnet, tell us again how Schofield is our second key defender. Or are you going to pretend you never said that? Just move on to your next stupid comment?

Do you still think Dalziell should be getting "maximum game time"? Is our current midfield still going to surpass the 2006 group?

Keep the hits coming, Fridgie.

 

[Obeanie1]

Which part of this is meant to refute what I've said?

Throughout, I've said that having three tall defenders – Mackenzie, Brown and Glass – gives us greater flexibility. Glass is essentially confirming that.

Hey Fridge Magnet, tell us again how Schofield is our second key defender. Or are you going to pretend you never said that? Just move on to your next stupid comment?

Do you still think Dalziell should be getting "maximum game time"? Is our current midfield still going to surpass the 2006 group?

Keep the hits coming, Fridgie.

So is that it????? Seriously?

Dagie you are the king of misquoting and quoting people out of context. You play little word games, sit on the fence and beat your chest stating things that are mostly are just plain obvious. Then you get owned with quotes from the players themselves that pretty much refute your argument / position so instead of trying the continue defending a 90's view of a player / issue you go off and deflect this with more tripe.

Now before you answer take a moment or two to calm down. Wouldn't want you on another ban like last time.....and the time......and the time before that now would we?

Anyway it's almost time for a change of name again isn't it Gunner?

 

[Patron]

Derail factor... 10/10

 

[Milenko]

What was this thread about again?