Opinion Best 22 for 2022

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katmanblue

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Not sure if you are asking me but like everyone else here I have an opinion .

I think a number of things come to mind with Fisher and the wing:
  • Does he have the running capacity that this role involves (I don’t know the answer to this so not being negative). Elite running is required As a trait for the role.
  • Fisher is becoming injury prone which is frustrating
  • I really like Fisher as a footballer And want him in our 22. I do see him as easily best 22 when in form.
  • I like his left foot going inside 50. I think he has special evasivenes.
  • I don’t mind him trying wing if he is in the best 6-8 runners at the club
  • I like him up forward if he can’t get his preferred midfield role. I like him hitting late in the midfield in last 5 minutes of a qtr.
  • If he did get a wing role, and had the running, I like the option quite a bit.
what are your thoughts?
I think Fisher is more of a burst player.
 

gbatman

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What are your thoughts on Fisher playing the wing role?
Too many ahead of him and O'Brien is one of them. Could do the offensive stuff pretty well, not sure on the running, the defensive stuff will likely let him down.

Fisher is a player who if he does not improve his all round game, may find himself pushed out and moved on next year. On his previous form I don't see him as best 22. There is no doubt he's good with the ball in hand, it's the other scenarios he is letting us down.

When we have the ball and when he has the ball Fisher is terrific, that's his strength. When the ball is in dispute, particularly contested and when the opposition have the ball he's dreadful. I rate him really low in these two areas and if we are to go forward we can't have that.

It's these players who aren't good when the ball is in dispute and when the opposition have it that are going to struggle as our list improves. There is a good list of them who played regularly last year who probably wont play a lot next year because this part of their game is poor. That is where our team defence and our pressure is improve, from our ability to compete for the lose ball, get to the lose ball quickly and to get too the opposition quickly and tackle effectively. It's this part of Fisher's game that puts me off him.

If he could get it right, if his attack on the ball and the man and his tackling improve the, he's a really good chance at playing on a wing or forward flank or anywhere really but it has to happen and I'm yet to see indications it is.

The competition for spots is going to be great next year you would think but I think the new coaching group are going to sort it out pretty quickly.
 

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BluStreak

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There can be only 1
I understand, but I would not perceive the Hill's (Hawthorn, Freo StK) or even Isaac Smith as being good at contested ball but they are great at running.
if Fish was to concentrate on his 'two way' running and defensive acumen then could he simply be that receiver in the Bradley / Camporeale model?
 

Jeremias

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I understand, but I would not perceive the Hill's (Hawthorn, Freo StK) or even Isaac Smith as being good at contested ball but they are great at running.
if Fish was to concentrate on his 'two way' running and defensive acumen then could he simply be that receiver in the Bradley / Camporeale model?
These guys were and are all blessed with unbelievable running power, something Fisher doesn't have and I'm not sure it's something you can just develop. Not in your mid 20s.
 

Justnetime

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Too many ahead of him and O'Brien is one of them. Could do the offensive stuff pretty well, not sure on the running, the defensive stuff will likely let him down.

Fisher is a player who if he does not improve his all round game, may find himself pushed out and moved on next year. On his previous form I don't see him as best 22. There is no doubt he's good with the ball in hand, it's the other scenarios he is letting us down.

When we have the ball and when he has the ball Fisher is terrific, that's his strength. When the ball is in dispute, particularly contested and when the opposition have the ball he's dreadful. I rate him really low in these two areas and if we are to go forward we can't have that.

It's these players who aren't good when the ball is in dispute and when the opposition have it that are going to struggle as our list improves. There is a good list of them who played regularly last year who probably wont play a lot next year because this part of their game is poor. That is where our team defence and our pressure is improve, from our ability to compete for the lose ball, get to the lose ball quickly and to get too the opposition quickly and tackle effectively. It's this part of Fisher's game that puts me off him.

If he could get it right, if his attack on the ball and the man and his tackling improve the, he's a really good chance at playing on a wing or forward flank or anywhere really but it has to happen and I'm yet to see indications it is.

The competition for spots is going to be great next year you would think but I think the new coaching group are going to sort it out pretty quickly.
Im hoping like everyone else that LoB is not a complete bust. He has just held on to his list spot by the skin of his teeth. I’m crossing everything for him but just not sure how on any performance related data that he is ahead of Fisher in any onfield position Let alone wing.

The other stuff I don’t agree with but it is something that is hard to prove or disprove, but fair enough. Everyone sees their own things, I see what you have talked about in Dow and Cunner who are more afflicted than Fisher.
 
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gbatman

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Im hoping like everyone else that LoB is not a complete bust. He has just held on to his list spot by the skin of his teeth. I’m crossing everything for him but just not sure how on any performance related data that he is ahead of Fisher in any onfield position Let alone wing.

The other stuff I don’t agree with but it is something that is hard to prove or disprove, but fair enough. Everyone sees their own things, I see what you have talked about in Dow and Cunner who are more afflicted than Fisher.
His last month of footy was actually quite good. He's a better runner than fisher and a better kick but then again he's a better kick than most. Both are poor when the ball is in dispute or in opposition's hands however O'Brien i thought broke even a fair bit in this area in his last month of footy which puts him ahead of Fisher in these crucial areas, just. Fisher is more creative and evasive and has better forward craft. Both need to improve their defensive game.
 
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4flagsin5yrs

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Im hoping like everyone else that LoB is not a complete bust. He has just held on to his list spot by the skin of his teeth. I’m crossing everything for him but just not sure how on any performance related data that he is ahead of Fisher in any onfield position Let alone wing.

The other stuff I don’t agree with but it is something that is hard to prove or disprove, but fair enough. Everyone sees their own things, I see what you have talked about in Dow and Cunner who are more afflicted than Fisher.
At this stage, Fisher has shown, when fit, he can be a factor in the outcome of games (I recall him kicking 4 against WCE a few years back).

LOB has shown a few moments of 'that was pretty decent' footy. Rarely, if ever, for a full game.

Not like for like, but Fisher miles ahead.
 

gbatman

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I understand, but I would not perceive the Hill's (Hawthorn, Freo StK) or even Isaac Smith as being good at contested ball but they are great at running.
if Fish was to concentrate on his 'two way' running and defensive acumen then could he simply be that receiver in the Bradley / Camporeale model?
You don't have to be good at contested ball winning but you do have to be able to break even. Fisher and O'Brien need to be good at breaking even or halve the contests as they often refer to. That means they might not beat you at a contest but you aren't going to beat them. You do need to be able to lay a tackle, you do need to be willing to put your head over it and take a hit to at least hold them up and keep the ball in dispute. I think in the last few games of the season O'Brien got ahead of Fisher in this area as he started to break even a bit more. Both have been terrible in this area over their careers but that can change.

The mentioned players were reliable when it came to breaking even.

Both need to lift in these areas or neither will be on our list in 2023. They don't need to be good at winning contests just breaking even. A 23 possession game from O'Brien where he sets up 4 goals and breaks even in his contests is a good game. A 2 goal 15 possession game with tackling and loads of pressure from Fisher where no one walks through him, intimidates him at ground level or is allowed time because he corrals is a good game from Fisher.
 
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BigBreakfast

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2019 he had a really good game against St Kilda and we all thought he had turned the corner, certainly showed what he's capable of. I get the feeling some really poor coaching and injuries have stuffed his game since.

There is no way a guy with those athletic attributes and skills, if he get's fit and stops getting injured does not become a really good player at either end of the ground. I think he struggles at times as the third tall, that's a tricky position to play. I think he would be excellent in defence, IMO would be a serious upgrade on Plowman in that position with some form and some time to find form in that role.

He posted the second fastest speed at our club for the season, is a good mark, has good skills, competes well, is the best shot on goal at the club and regularly does hamstrings and has been a part of a poorly coached team.

Would be a waste of talent if he failed to make it.
Wouldn’t be the first, won’t be the last. Anything we get from him is a bonus. My hopes aren’t high.
 

JuddgementDay

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What do we do now that Marchbank is back - straight into the best 22?
Can he play on the wing or too much running for him, coming back from a long stint of injuries?

Anyway, this is my current best 22:

B: Plowman, Liam Jones, Nic Newman

HB: Adam Saad, Jacob Weitering, Zac Williams

C: Adam Cerra, Patrick Cripps, Marchbank

HF:
Jack Martin, Charlie Curnow, Zac Fisher

F: Jack Silvagni, Harry McKay, Josh Honey

FOLL: Tom De Koning, Sam Walsh, George Hewett

I/C: Philp, Kemp, Liam Stocker, Paddy Dow


I feel Winger1 and Interchange1 is problematic and I'm not too sure who to put in there.
At the moment I've got Marchbank and Philp.
 
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Justnetime

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He’s already doing ball work. Modified program early then hopefully in full training before round 1. Fingers crossed, touch wood, etc
I hope he is good for round 1 so he is preferred to McGovern. But given Marchbanks history, given Docherty was handled Carefully on resuming due to risk, and due to Carltons horrific injury history as a club, I can only think they will hold him back. This is Marchbanks last life on our list. They will want to get it right.
 

Justnetime

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Young is on the bench as 2nd ruck/back up KPD.

Gov can compete in the air, can tackle and is quick. Hoping Voss sorts him out.
The bit that is missing is his penchant for 5 min bursts And then invisibility. But I guess that could be something that is linked to a forward role. And a Carlton fwd role.

I prefer Young starting over McGovern but definitely understand he becomes a stronger best 22 option.
 

Sector 7G

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At this stage, Fisher has shown, when fit, he can be a factor in the outcome of games (I recall him kicking 4 against WCE a few years back).

LOB has shown a few moments of 'that was pretty decent' footy. Rarely, if ever, for a full game.

Not like for like, but Fisher miles ahead.
Fisher kicked 4 goals in 1 game. In the other 17 over the last 2 years he kicked 6 goals. As much as I like Fish he is not getting it done as a forward.
 

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