Best 22 in ‘22

Remove this Banner Ad

Section 5

Club Legend
Nov 26, 2018
2,317
3,344
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I don’t know how rucks are rated, but would have thought Oscar would be in the bottom half of rucks in the league.

The only game I can remember from last season where I thought he won the ruck duel was against Gold Coast. Other than that, I don’t remember him halving many contests either.

I remember Fort won their duel, when Oscar was matched up against him.
A few sites have ruck ratings but they look at things differently. That's why i mentioned his ranking is around 7 to 9
Most people if asked would say Max Gawn is number 1. And he is with some but Nic Nat is rated above him in other rankings
I suppose AFL Stats Pro official rankings are as good a guide as anything. So, below their top 10 rucks.

They base their rankings on the past 40 games so about two seasons.
Below sentence from their "How does it work" page. A bit self centered but overall it's a good indication of how a player has performed over 40 games
"Now, using the most sophisticated algorithm ever applied to our game,"

(1) Nic Nat (619.6 points), (2) Gawn (524.1), (3) Grundy (474.4), (4) Goldstein (460.9), (5) Reilly O'Brien (442.2)
(6) Sean Darcy (437.3), (7) Oscar (418.7), (8) Ben McEvoy (386.5), (9) Rowan Marshall (378.6), (10) Scott Lycett (360)
...........
Oscar on pure stats for 2021 only, and Rucks only
Hitouts ranked 3rd, Disposals 7th, Kicks 5th, Handballs 9th, Marks 14th, Tackles 11th, Frees For 1st, Frees Against 6th, Goals 18th, Behinds 12th

This is why i mentioned he could move into the top 5 with further improvement.
 

briztoon

Wannabe Draft Nuffie
Nov 28, 2015
17,442
18,141
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
NUFC, Philadelphia 76'ers
Oscar has periods of dominance in pretty much every game.
It is his consistency, even within games, that is the question mark for me.
He appears to fade out late in games also. Which is why he works his absolute butt off to try and improve.
Gees, I really struggle to remember Oscar dominating during many games. I more remember Oscar being beaten by back up rucks.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Section 5

Club Legend
Nov 26, 2018
2,317
3,344
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
He certainly had a form slump earlier in the year, but bad some seriously good games in the last 4-6 weeks.
I believe Oscar picked up an injury in round 2 v Cats and then missed round 3
I think he was playing through that injury for a while. Form wise he was very up and down in rounds 4 to 14
But he was good in 10 of the last 11 games being from round 15 to 23 + 2 finals

Nic Nat had a day out in round 23 and no ruck would have come near him that day
Nic Nat won hit outs 53 to 24. But his clearances (11) and overall game were exceptional that day. Added 24 disposals 2 tackles but only 1 mark
But Oscar just kept at it all day and ended up with 15 disposals 3 marks 4 tackles and 3 clearances along with the 24 hit outs
 

dlanod

Moderator
Sep 14, 2006
46,856
66,889
Sydney
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
GWS; CCMariners; NQCowboys; Ravens
I don’t know how rucks are rated, but would have thought Oscar would be in the bottom half of rucks in the league.

The only game I can remember from last season where I thought he won the ruck duel was against Gold Coast. Other than that, I don’t remember him halving many contests either.

I remember Fort won their duel, when Oscar was matched up against him.

I dug up some ruck rankings and stats earlier in the offseason when we were discussing recruitment and was surprised at the results. Basically there's a lot of bad or ineffective rucks out there. Oscar's better than them. Then there's four or so elite rucks. Oscar's worse than them. There's a tier with the likes of Oscar, Hickey, Lycett, etc, and Oscar had arguably the best or second best year of those.
 

acuguy

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 31, 2000
7,557
3,776
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Can't believe the knocks on the BIG O. He singlehandedly carried our ruck division for the whole season. He was severely beat up for a period of the season. It is just due to his ticker, fitness and skill that he was able to continue to compete as the season wore on. Darcy Fort is going to be get a good run at supporting the BIG O.
 

KissKiss

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 26, 2012
5,472
4,837
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
While he didnt dominate and at times was beaten Oscar did improve over the year and on most ranking things Ive seen moved into about that 8th or 9th best ruck for the year. He needed more support at times but honestly he is a good shot at being a top 5-10 ruck for us.

I still think he has areas he can improve in - like throwins I think he still gets caught behind too often. But he has been one of the best pickups we have had over the last several years
 

davemc_lions

Premiership Player
Aug 21, 2013
3,309
2,879
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I think Big O played with injury a lot of the year and not much support.
Joe or Fullarton where only useful so he can catch his breath and we had to get him back on quicker.
If we play Fort I say we see better in Oscar not having to carry the load and a leg injury
 

Mighty Lions

Club Legend
Jan 9, 2019
1,145
3,649
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
While he didnt dominate and at times was beaten Oscar did improve over the year and on most ranking things Ive seen moved into about that 8th or 9th best ruck for the year. He needed more support at times but honestly he is a good shot at being a top 5-10 ruck for us.

I still think he has areas he can improve in - like throwins I think he still gets caught behind too often. But he has been one of the best pickups we have had over the last several years
Agree 100% with what you say...especially the throw ins. He tends to be more concerned with holding back the oppo's ruckman rather than getting first touch at the footy.
Overall his year was a good one and, providing he stays injury free next year, he will be even better.
 

25 years on

Debutant
Oct 27, 2015
147
154
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I think for 2022 we should select a team that can beat the best team(s) in the competition. In 2021 I don’t feel we did. We could beat all the teams below us on the day but we never fielded a team that could beat Melbourne and in my opinion we never tried to. If you can’t beat the best you will never win the flag.
 

mattsmob

Club Legend
Feb 14, 2020
1,031
1,549
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
OKC Thunder
I think for 2022 we should select a team that can beat the best team(s) in the competition. In 2021 I don’t feel we did. We could beat all the teams below us on the day but we never fielded a team that could beat Melbourne and in my opinion we never tried to. If you can’t beat the best you will never win the flag.
We didn’t try and beat Melbourne in a qualifying final? We may not have had the team to beat Melbourne last season mainly due to injuries IMO but to say we didn’t pick a team to try and beat them doesn’t make a lot of sense. Add Hipwood and Rayner to our finals team along with better preparation to Neale, Andrews, Adams, Gardiner and Berry plus another offseason and year into Daniher and Cockatoo plus young guys getting more experience and I don’t see why we wouldn’t be in the same tier as Melbourne.
 

25 years on

Debutant
Oct 27, 2015
147
154
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
We didn’t try and beat Melbourne in a qualifying final? We may not have had the team to beat Melbourne last season mainly due to injuries IMO but to say we didn’t pick a team to try and beat them doesn’t make a lot of sense. Add Hipwood and Rayner to our finals team along with better preparation to Neale, Andrews, Adams, Gardiner and Berry plus another offseason and year into Daniher and Cockatoo plus young guys getting more experience and I don’t see why we wouldn’t be in the same tier as Melbourne.
From the first game of the year we couldn’t compete with speed of the back line, we didn’t change. Last year was an opportunity, we missed it
 

Mighty Lions

Club Legend
Jan 9, 2019
1,145
3,649
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Payne is a promising player for sure.

I think the balance is right with Andrews ,Adams ,Gardiner ,Starcevich and some extra pace thrown in in 2022 . But someone will probably get injured. We started Payne as a forward in our last game so he'll get his chance at some stage.
There is no plans for Paynie to play up forward in 2022. That said, should we have the same situation with 2 out of our 3 key forwards go down, he would be considered.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Section 5

Club Legend
Nov 26, 2018
2,317
3,344
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
There is no plans for Paynie to play up forward in 2022. That said, should we have the same situation with 2 out of our 3 key forwards go down, he would be considered.
If that is the case than in my opinion that's not great planning on the clubs part
You appear to have a bit more inside information than most on this forum so maybe you are correct
Apart from Payne i don't see anyone on our list ready to prove he can fill a KPF spot if needed
As such i would have thought that he would at least train and play VFL (if not in seniors) for that position should a need arise.
He knows how to fill in down back and should fit in easily if needed in that position
But you need time to slot into a KPF role as it is completely different and difficult role
With Hippy not back for some time the season could easily go south if another KPF goes down
Sure he could be considered if disaster strikes.
But it's a bit too late if we happen to lose those two or more games while he tries to fit into a hard role
If you are correct are you aware of anyone earmarked to take that 2nd KPF role if McStay or Daniher get injured before Hippy's return
I know a ruck type can also fill the void but we look very vulnerable if they slot into a KPF role alongside either McStay or Daniher

It is a completely different scenario if we went into round 1 with all 3 KPF available.
But we know we only have two.
 

mattsmob

Club Legend
Feb 14, 2020
1,031
1,549
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
OKC Thunder
If that is the case than in my opinion that's not great planning on the clubs part
You appear to have a bit more inside information than most on this forum so maybe you are correct
Apart from Payne i don't see anyone on our list ready to prove he can fill a KPF spot if needed
As such i would have thought that he would at least train and play VFL (if not in seniors) for that position should a need arise.
He knows how to fill in down back and should fit in easily if needed in that position
But you need time to slot into a KPF role as it is completely different and difficult role
With Hippy not back for some time the season could easily go south if another KPF goes down
Sure he could be considered if disaster strikes.
But it's a bit too late if we happen to lose those two or more games while he tries to fit into a hard role
If you are correct are you aware of anyone earmarked to take that 2nd KPF role if McStay or Daniher get injured before Hippy's return
I know a ruck type can also fill the void but we look very vulnerable if they slot into a KPF role alongside either McStay or Daniher

It is a completely different scenario if we went into round 1 with all 3 KPF available.
But we know we only have two.
One of Fort or Fullarton will still be playing reserves and either of those guys are more advanced as a forward than Payne is. Can always go smaller in the forward line as well.
If a key defender goes down who would you bring in to replace them?
 

Section 5

Club Legend
Nov 26, 2018
2,317
3,344
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
One of Fort or Fullarton will still be playing reserves and either of those guys are more advanced as a forward than Payne is. Can always go smaller in the forward line as well.
If a key defender goes down who would you bring in to replace them?
Unlikely a key defender goes down at the same time as a key forward before Hippy's return. However anything is possible, and that would be a disaster
So simple enough Payne goes to defense and hardly any adjustment needed for him to do that role
As i pointed out previously a fill in ruck does not play that KPF role.
You are correct in that Fullarton has played forward more but at present he is an improving R/F. Fort still unknown at present

Fullarton is 200cm and maybe he will have a role change with Fort coming into the side
If Fullarton trains and plays as a KPF that may be okay.
However Fullarton's 2021 win/loss record in the team stands at 7 losses & 5 wins
The 5 wins were against Pies, Suns, Dockers, Pies, Eagles

I just don't like a 2 KPF line of McStay + Fullerton or McStay + Fort
Similar with Daniher + Fullarton or Daniher + Fort
For me this puts too much pressure on McStay & Daniher

Regarding going smaller.
My opinion is this would be our last option as i don't see either of McStay or Daniher holding the fort (pun intended) on their own

Lets just hope that our injury toll is way down on 2021 especially our key talls and everything will be fine.
 

mattsmob

Club Legend
Feb 14, 2020
1,031
1,549
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
OKC Thunder
Unlikely a key defender goes down at the same time as a key forward before Hippy's return. However anything is possible, and that would be a disaster
So simple enough Payne goes to defense and hardly any adjustment needed for him to do that role
As i pointed out previously a fill in ruck does not play that KPF role.
You are correct in that Fullarton has played forward more but at present he is an improving R/F. Fort still unknown at present

Fullarton is 200cm and maybe he will have a role change with Fort coming into the side
If Fullarton trains and plays as a KPF that may be okay.
However Fullarton's 2021 win/loss record in the team stands at 7 losses & 5 wins
The 5 wins were against Pies, Suns, Dockers, Pies, Eagles

I just don't like a 2 KPF line of McStay + Fullerton or McStay + Fort
Similar with Daniher + Fullarton or Daniher + Fort
For me this puts too much pressure on McStay & Daniher

Regarding going smaller.
My opinion is this would be our last option as i don't see either of McStay or Daniher holding the fort (pun intended) on their own

Lets just hope that our injury toll is way down on 2021 especially our key talls and everything will be fine.
With either Fort or Fullarton in the team Big O could ease the burden as a marking forward option as well.
I think Fullarton will spend the majority of his time as a KPF that can ruck with either Lane or Fort playing as the first ruck, either way I don't see the win loss rate meaning a great deal when talking about the 20-22 player any given week. Fullarton isn't the reason we lost 7 games and he isn't the reason we won the 5 that he played and I'd trust him to play a role up forward better than Payne at this stage.
I do agree that I hope we have a better injury run next season, a clean injury list is one thing most premiers have in common.
 

Mighty Lions

Club Legend
Jan 9, 2019
1,145
3,649
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
If that is the case than in my opinion that's not great planning on the clubs part
You appear to have a bit more inside information than most on this forum so maybe you are correct
Apart from Payne i don't see anyone on our list ready to prove he can fill a KPF spot if needed
As such i would have thought that he would at least train and play VFL (if not in seniors) for that position should a need arise.
He knows how to fill in down back and should fit in easily if needed in that position
But you need time to slot into a KPF role as it is completely different and difficult role
With Hippy not back for some time the season could easily go south if another KPF goes down
Sure he could be considered if disaster strikes.
But it's a bit too late if we happen to lose those two or more games while he tries to fit into a hard role
If you are correct are you aware of anyone earmarked to take that 2nd KPF role if McStay or Daniher get injured before Hippy's return
I know a ruck type can also fill the void but we look very vulnerable if they slot into a KPF role alongside either McStay or Daniher

It is a completely different scenario if we went into round 1 with all 3 KPF available.
But we know we only have two.
To the contrary I think its smart planning on the clubs part. He was recruited with long term plans of eventually holding down a key defender spot. Currently 22 years old with just senior 15 games. Providing he develops the way the coach's want him to, Harris and himself will be a strong, big & agile spine in the backline for many years to come.........What a Great Plan that is.
 

martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
4,897
7,553
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
We started Payne as a KPF in our most crucial match of the year so my point was we must have thought he had some hope of competing there.

Sure we have earmarked him as a key defender but didn't Fagan always say we need players to be versatile and adapt to changing circumstances.

I made a minor point made and it balloons into we only have one plan for him.

With respect to both Fullarton and Payne you'd hope for significant improvement over the next year or two. Footy is full of players earmarked for something that ended up doing something else. Having said that Payne looks a more natural defender than a forward at this point. I would've hoped Fullarton might fill in on occasions with Hipwood out but he needs to be better than he was overall last year.
 

Mighty Lions

Club Legend
Jan 9, 2019
1,145
3,649
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
We started Payne as a KPF in our most crucial match of the year so my point was we must have thought he had some hope of competing there.

Sure we have earmarked him as a key defender but didn't Fagan always say we need players to be versatile and adapt to changing circumstances.

I made a minor point made and it balloons into we only have one plan for him.

With respect to both Fullarton and Payne you'd hope for significant improvement over the next year or two. Footy is full of players earmarked for something that ended up doing something else. Having said that Payne looks a more natural defender than a forward at this point. I would've hoped Fullarton might fill in on occasions with Hipwood out but he needs to be better than he was overall last year.

In that game what other choices did we have other than Payne?

Not meaning to "balloon" anything out, just talking on this forum and expressing an opinion. Yes I am 100% sure that Fagan & Co would love versatility in all of the list but it takes time and investment to groom someone into a key position & that's what I think we want to do with Payne right at this time to partner up with Harris longer term.
 

briztoon

Wannabe Draft Nuffie
Nov 28, 2015
17,442
18,141
Brisbane
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
NUFC, Philadelphia 76'ers
We started Payne as a KPF in our most crucial match of the year so my point was we must have thought he had some hope of competing there.

Sure we have earmarked him as a key defender but didn't Fagan always say we need players to be versatile and adapt to changing circumstances.

I made a minor point made and it balloons into we only have one plan for him.

With respect to both Fullarton and Payne you'd hope for significant improvement over the next year or two. Footy is full of players earmarked for something that ended up doing something else. Having said that Payne looks a more natural defender than a forward at this point. I would've hoped Fullarton might fill in on occasions with Hipwood out but he needs to be better than he was overall last year.
Payne played forward because both Hipwood and McStay were out injured.

Rather than play small, we tried to keep our 3 tall structure, playing Daniher, Fullerton and Payne forward. Because we didn’t have anyone else to play.
 

martinson

Premiership Player
Apr 4, 2015
4,897
7,553
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I know all that what you are both saying Britzoon and Mighty Lions.

What's your point ??

All I said in the first place was that he'll get his chance with injuries as he did last year. I wasn't advocating he play forward at all.

Pedantic City.
 

Section 5

Club Legend
Nov 26, 2018
2,317
3,344
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
To the contrary I think its smart planning on the clubs part. He was recruited with long term plans of eventually holding down a key defender spot. Currently 22 years old with just senior 15 games. Providing he develops the way the coach's want him to, Harris and himself will be a strong, big & agile spine in the backline for many years to come.........What a Great Plan that is.
It is like you have not taken in much of what i have been saying regarding Payne in my recent posts
***I have been talking about the first 12 rounds (plan) of 2022 without Hippy, and if injury strikes one of remaining 2 KPF

Not what the clubs plan for Payne was in 2017 when he was drafted. Your "What a Great Plan that is" comment i don't think is helpful at all
Lots of players are drafted for a specific role but end up playing in another or multiple positions positions
I don't think playing him forward is out of the question.

I won't go over stuff i have previously posted.
However i still pose the question above***
Most replies to this question have been:- Fullarton, Fort, a medium forward, another small along with some players that have yet to play a game
However when you actually start to put names on the whiteboard our forward structure looks weak in my eyes
My preference is to train and play someone in the VFL to take up that role if needed
My choice for this is Payne as i don't see him gaining a defense spot over others if they are all fit.
 

Section 5

Club Legend
Nov 26, 2018
2,317
3,344
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Payne played forward because both Hipwood and McStay were out injured.

Rather than play small, we tried to keep our 3 tall structure, playing Daniher, Fullerton and Payne forward. Because we didn’t have anyone else to play.
Does this not tell you something about what Fagan thinks our best structure up forward was in 2021
I think he will still believe the same 3 tall forward structure will be best in 2022
So for rounds 1 to about 12 it will be Daniher, McStay + someone else.
Fullarton is the logical one from last years player list. But could be someone else.
Whoever it is will likely be a tall so when Hippy returns structurally our forward line does not change much
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad