Opinion Best 22 in 2019

[Michaels]

panicked my arse. or shifting players for the sake of it. We need more than 24 regular players we need our second tier to have some games behind them for when they are needed.
We have a significsnt need to get games into some of these kids and actually address some real needs. I have to keep saying it we would have the least experienced second 22 in the entire comp and rely heavily on 22 players playing all the time.As far as experience running right thru the list goes we have a serious deficiency.

More than anything we need a few big bodied mids but the next one is adequate cover when injury happens to our talls we dont have that coverbecause so few have games behind them.
Other clubs manage to find a balance between best players and the very real need of all clubs to get experience behind their players.

Fmd Adelaide springs straight to mind Jenkins Walker lynch and McGovern in the fwd half yet they found a way to get 10 games into young fogarty despite them not having a real dire need to play him.

We have just two kpfs and two kpd,s there is room at both ends to bring in young players in secondary roles and get games into them.

You make it sound like those other crows forward played all 22 games but yet they still fit fogerty in.

But your have conveniently missed the following:

2018 games
Walker - 14
Lynch - 17
Jenkins - 22
McGovern - 12

So the crows played fogerty when they had injuries. They didn't just magically boot someone out of the team and slot him in for experience.

What they have done is literally no different to what we do but yet you still mean about it.

C'mon mate you're going to have to come up with a better argument than that.

You are wanting to force change for the sake of it.

 

[Wooden Robot]

You cant take Astbury out of the team, he and Rance work very well together, if you want to bring in Garthwaite thats fine but not at Astbury's expense.

The only one I see who could make way in the back 6 would be Broad.

You cant take Astbury out of the team, he and Rance work very well together, if you want to bring in Garthwaite thats fine but not at Astbury's expense.

The only one I see who could make way in the back 6 would be Broad.

I would (take out Broad).

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

No...

 

[theflea]

panicked my arse. or shifting players for the sake of it. We need more than 24 regular players we need our second tier to have some games behind them for when they are needed.
We have a significsnt need to get games into some of these kids and actually address some real needs. I have to keep saying it we would have the least experienced second 22 in the entire comp and rely heavily on 22 players playing all the time.As far as experience running right thru the list goes we have a serious deficiency.

More than anything we need a few big bodied mids but the next one is adequate cover when injury happens to our talls we dont have that coverbecause so few have games behind them.
Other clubs manage to find a balance between best players and the very real need of all clubs to get experience behind their players.

Fmd Adelaide springs straight to mind Jenkins Walker lynch and McGovern in the fwd half yet they found a way to get 10 games into young fogarty despite them not having a real dire need to play him.

We have just two kpfs and two kpd,s there is room at both ends to bring in young players in secondary roles and get games into them.

You play to your strengths and the crows like to play many talls fwd. The reason fogarty got games was because McGovern was injured, not because they deliberately got games into him. If there is an opening available then all players can get a chance just like we have done in the past. If not then they dont. Your making an argument like we are a developing teams, but we are not in that time frame now. If a player is injured or out of form, then sure play a junior as we have with Higgins, Broad, Soldo, Grathwaite, Moore, Bolton, Baker, Chol etc. Not that many games in a row, but games non the less. If it aint broken we dont need to fix it. Happy to make player v player and may the best man win and get to play, but change for change sake IMO isnt the right way to go.

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

dont have a set 22, more of a rotating best 22

 

[_RT_]

Updated with the addition of Stack to the list.

B: Grimes Astbury Vlastuin
HB: Broad Rance Houli
C: Edwards Cotchin McIntosh
HF: Caddy Riewoldt Butler
F: Rioli Lynch Bolton
R: Nankervis Martin Prestia
INT: Higgins Short Graham Lambert

Depth 22

B: Menadue Garthwaite Miller
HB: Ellis Balta Markov
C: Turner Weller Naish
HF: Collier-Dawkins Moore Castagna
F: Baker Coleman-Jones Aarts
R: Soldo Grigg Ross
INT: English Townsend Eggmolesse-Smith Chol Stack

DEFENDERS
KPD: Rance Astbury Garthwaite Balta Miller
Medium Defenders: Grimes Vlastuin Broad Markov Menadue
Small Defenders: Houli Short Ellis Eggmolesse-Smith

MIDFIELDERS
Inside Midfielders: Martin Cotchin Prestia Graham Grigg Ross English Weller
Outside Midfielders: Edwards Lambert Higgins McIntosh Naish Turner

FORWARDS
KPF: Riewoldt Lynch Moore Chol
Medium Forwards: Caddy Collier-Dawkins Townsend
Small Forwards: Rioli Butler Bolton Castagna Baker Aarts Stack

RUCKS
Nankervis Soldo Coleman-Jones

Based on the 2 sides and depth lists above I expect the following to happen as the season progresses.

Grigg will make way early on once Lynch is up and running, with Graham and Higgins spending more time through the midfield we need to remove a mid sized player from the line up and Grigg is the logical choice as we look to develop long term replacements.

Ellis ending 2018 in the VFL is not a great sign and I can see him starting the season there as well. As the year progresses he'll get another shot at the rebounding defenders role with Houli needing to be replaced in the near future as we again look at long term replacements. Seeing the pictures of Markov it's clear that he has finally got the size needed to play regular AFL. At 188cm and 83kg with pace to burn he'll be a good addition to the side down the track as we look to maintain our speedy ball movement.

The rest of the midfielders pretty much pick themselves. Martin Cotchin Prestia and Graham will provide the grunt around the contest, while Edwards Lambert Higgins and McIntosh will be the outside run with cameos from Rioli Butler and Bolton, who I have replacing Castagna in the 22 as we tweak the set up of the previous 2 seasons. I expect that the likes of Collier-Dawkins Ross English & Naish will get opportunities throughout the season to show what they can do and Naish could very well surprise as a hard running winger who can also play across HB as well.

The thought of Rioli Edwards Higgins Butler & Bolton buzzing around the midfield and F50 with X factor in attack and high defensive pressure when we don't have the ball will be a thing of beauty given that starting positions come into effect this year. Especially now that we'll have a dual pronged KPF set up with Jack and Lynch roaming around the F50 in 1-1 contests, if they don't mark it the ball will hit the ground and that is when the smalls come into their own.

Nankervis will once again be the mainstay in the ruck with Lynch giving him a chop out for a few minutes a quarter when necessary. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see us play Nank a kick behind play once the ball enters the F50 to allow him to rest that way instead of heading to the bench with Jack or Tom taking the ruck inside F50.

Soldo to start in the ruck at VFL level but I want to see Coleman-Jones' time in the ruck increase in his second season as we develop him into a long term first ruck option. Moore and Chol should be playing in the KPF positions at VFL level to maintain a similar set up to what the AFL side plays.

For all the excitement about Balta, I'd really like to see the club settle him at CHB as I think he has all the tools to be a very good attacking KPD much the same way as Rance plays. With Garthwaite as the long term Astbury replacement I'd really like to see the club go down the path of developing them in those roles with an eye on Rance eventually moving to a 3rd tall role as those 2 establish themselves in the 22 down the track.

 

[tora tora tora]

dont have a set 22, more of a rotating best 22

Fact of the matter is we finished 3rd. We need to find improvement from somewhere. Lynch is a change I reckon we could've done without. But, him and Butler back in means more midfield time for our small fwds & Caddy. Just watched some 2017 finals and Caddy did some good stuff in the middle. I'd forgotten how good Graham was too.
The fitness of our list was under qn. going into our last final. (Dusty, Graham, Ast., & Lambert was NQR either). Selectors played it safe & it cost. It is imperative that Garth be getting 7 or 8 games during the yer. 2 each from Rance, Astbury, Grimes & Broad. Markov should play 5 or 6, resting the small backs. Same around the midfield, rest Grigg & KMac Cotch, Dusty, Sheds & get games into whoever deserves. Some backup rucks need to be getting a few games along the way.

 

[tony__montana]

Imagine playing Rance in that role, it would be a nightmare for opposition forwards ... my only worry is what happens to Garthwaite if he is getting beaten early.

Do they move Rance on to his opponent? If so what do you do with Garthwaite?

Yep and yep. Garthwaite is a workhorse and covers enormous ground, he'll be surprisingly flxible imo

 

[nineteen eighty]

With the 6-6-6 rule change, winning centre clearances looks to take on added significance. I know we have a number of guns in our midfield but we will need to win out of the centre to put on some easy shots at goal with Lynch and Riewoldt down forward.

Has anyone seen anything at training that showcases a tweak in our centre square work?

And where has Caddy and Rioli predominantly played in match simulations? I think both can be wildcards for midfield roles this year.

 

[Zoom]

Imagine playing Rance in that role, it would be a nightmare for opposition forwards ... my only worry is what happens to Garthwaite if he is getting beaten early.

Do they move Rance on to his opponent? If so what do you do with Garthwaite?

I reckon playing all three of Astbury, Rance and Garthwaite is the way forward. Rance will take the piss with so much freedom and Garth is surely ready. I also reckon Garthwaite could play second ruck, so when Nank rests, Rance takes the second tall and Garth goes into the ruck. He would surely have 3 or 4 centimetres on Grigg.

 

[Grrr]

I reckon playing all three of Astbury, Rance and Garthwaite is the way forward. Rance will take the piss with so much freedom and Garth is surely ready. I also reckon Garthwaite could play second ruck, so when Nank rests, Rance takes the second tall and Garth goes into the ruck. He would surely have 3 or 4 centimetres on Grigg.

Not a bad idea. It is not easy being thrown around, but if Garthwaite knows going into the game that he will play key back with stints on the ball rucking then he looks the sort of bloke that would take to any challenge given to him. Probably the best option until Balta comes along.

 

[Zoom]

Not a bad idea. It is not easy being thrown around, but if Garthwaite knows going into the game that he will play key back with stints on the ball rucking then he looks the sort of bloke that would take to any challenge given to him. Probably the best option until Balta comes along.

I don’t see it any different to how forwards play CHF/FF and ruck. Sam Weideman is a similar age to Garthwaite and he juggled the two positions seamlessly. Worst case is Garth struggles and we bring Broad back in or maybe try Astbury in the ruck while Rance and Garth stay back. We have options. I just want Grigg out of there. We’re going to need a stronger presence in the middle this year with the new rules.

 

[Grrr]

I don’t see it any different to how forwards play CHF/FF and ruck. Sam Weideman is a similar age to Garthwaite and he juggled the two positions seamlessly. Worst case is Garth struggles and we bring Broad back in or maybe try Astbury in the ruck while Rance and Garth stay back. We have options. I just want Grigg out of there. We’re going to need a stronger presence in the middle this year with the new rules.

Balta...

 

[mopsy]

You make it sound like those other crows forward played all 22 games but yet they still fit fogerty in.

But your have conveniently missed the following:

2018 games
Walker - 14
Lynch - 17
Jenkins - 22
McGovern - 12

So the crows played fogerty when they had injuries. They didn't just magically boot someone out of the team and slot him in for experience.

What they have done is literally no different to what we do but yet you still mean about it.

C'mon mate you're going to have to come up with a better argument than that.

You are wanting to force change for the sake of it.

the crows have regularly played 4 talls up fwd in some games they have played all 5 of them. Compare that to us one tall fwd and every other tall on the list just not getting a game or rarely. What this has caused is a massive gap in games played from riewoldt thru to Moore with just 8 games and what three yrs in the system.

WE have three amigos thats a constant along with Riewoldt we have had the opportunity to ngive games to some of our junior players mainly taller and refused to do so. Just one tall fwd we needed to use one or even both of the remaining spots on talls and close that gap.Maybe the juniors werent good enough but im not buying that.

Luckily we finally addressed the need with Lynch but there is no reason why we cannot play three talls and get games into Balta and Moore this is something that really needs to happen imo.

Its not change for change sake there is a need to get games into a seriously inexperienced second 22 you obviously can not see this and disagree thats fine im happy to disagree.Every club has this problem finding a balance between getting games into the younger or more inexperienced blokes and those who may be slightly better but arent taking us fwd.It really is a list management problem and certainly is not change for change sake all clubs have damn good reasons for doing it.

Despite making a preliminary final we do have underperforming players or have some pretty serious deficiencies who IMO we need to replace and give those games to some of the younger players within the club.We also have some real deficiencies in some key areas and the only way to address that is get games into those players who address it.Lastly we need to build real depth and not just have a heap of players who play in certain positions but have no experience behind them.

Im all for finding the right balance and its just my opinion we have not done that.

 

[Wooden Robot]

Give it a go ….
F. Butler Lynch Caddy
HF. Higgins Riewoldt Edwards
C. Rioli Martin Lambert
HB Short Astbury Vlastuin
B. Grimes Rance Houli
Rucks: Nankervis Cotchin Prestia
Interchange: Grigg, Balta, McIntosh Graham
Emergencies: Garthwaite Collier-Dawkins Broad Bolton

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Updated with the addition of Stack to the list.

B: Grimes Astbury Vlastuin
HB: Broad Rance Houli
C: Edwards Cotchin McIntosh
HF: Caddy Riewoldt Butler
F: Rioli Lynch Bolton
R: Nankervis Martin Prestia
INT: Higgins Short Graham Lambert

Depth 22

B: Menadue Garthwaite Miller
HB: Ellis Balta Markov
C: Turner Weller Naish
HF: Collier-Dawkins Moore Castagna
F: Baker Coleman-Jones Aarts
R: Soldo Grigg Ross
INT: English Townsend Eggmolesse-Smith Chol Stack

DEFENDERS
KPD: Rance Astbury Garthwaite Balta Miller
Medium Defenders: Grimes Vlastuin Broad Markov Menadue
Small Defenders: Houli Short Ellis Eggmolesse-Smith

MIDFIELDERS
Inside Midfielders: Martin Cotchin Prestia Graham Grigg Ross English Weller
Outside Midfielders: Edwards Lambert Higgins McIntosh Naish Turner

FORWARDS
KPF: Riewoldt Lynch Moore Chol
Medium Forwards: Caddy Collier-Dawkins Townsend
Small Forwards: Rioli Butler Bolton Castagna Baker Aarts Stack

RUCKS
Nankervis Soldo Coleman-Jones

Based on the 2 sides and depth lists above I expect the following to happen as the season progresses.

Grigg will make way early on once Lynch is up and running, with Graham and Higgins spending more time through the midfield we need to remove a mid sized player from the line up and Grigg is the logical choice as we look to develop long term replacements.

Ellis ending 2018 in the VFL is not a great sign and I can see him starting the season there as well. As the year progresses he'll get another shot at the rebounding defenders role with Houli needing to be replaced in the near future as we again look at long term replacements. Seeing the pictures of Markov it's clear that he has finally got the size needed to play regular AFL. At 188cm and 83kg with pace to burn he'll be a good addition to the side down the track as we look to maintain our speedy ball movement.

The rest of the midfielders pretty much pick themselves. Martin Cotchin Prestia and Graham will provide the grunt around the contest, while Edwards Lambert Higgins and McIntosh will be the outside run with cameos from Rioli Butler and Bolton, who I have replacing Castagna in the 22 as we tweak the set up of the previous 2 seasons. I expect that the likes of Collier-Dawkins Ross English & Naish will get opportunities throughout the season to show what they can do and Naish could very well surprise as a hard running winger who can also play across HB as well.

The thought of Rioli Edwards Higgins Butler & Bolton buzzing around the midfield and F50 with X factor in attack and high defensive pressure when we don't have the ball will be a thing of beauty given that starting positions come into effect this year. Especially now that we'll have a dual pronged KPF set up with Jack and Lynch roaming around the F50 in 1-1 contests, if they don't mark it the ball will hit the ground and that is when the smalls come into their own.

Nankervis will once again be the mainstay in the ruck with Lynch giving him a chop out for a few minutes a quarter when necessary. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see us play Nank a kick behind play once the ball enters the F50 to allow him to rest that way instead of heading to the bench with Jack or Tom taking the ruck inside F50.

Soldo to start in the ruck at VFL level but I want to see Coleman-Jones' time in the ruck increase in his second season as we develop him into a long term first ruck option. Moore and Chol should be playing in the KPF positions at VFL level to maintain a similar set up to what the AFL side plays.

For all the excitement about Balta, I'd really like to see the club settle him at CHB as I think he has all the tools to be a very good attacking KPD much the same way as Rance plays. With Garthwaite as the long term Astbury replacement I'd really like to see the club go down the path of developing them in those roles with an eye on Rance eventually moving to a 3rd tall role as those 2 establish themselves in the 22 down the track.

Agree with all of that including Balta down back. The only slight difference for me would be starting Higgins, and Bolton on the bench. I agree Higgins will and should get alot more time in the midfield, but would like him rotating through the forward line as well. So he starts there and Bolton can replace him on the 1st change.

 

[Cdog71]

the crows have regularly played 4 talls up fwd in some games they have played all 5 of them. Compare that to us one tall fwd and every other tall on the list just not getting a game or rarely. What this has caused is a massive gap in games played from riewoldt thru to Moore with just 8 games and what three yrs in the system.

WE have three amigos thats a constant along with Riewoldt we have had the opportunity to ngive games to some of our junior players mainly taller and refused to do so. Just one tall fwd we needed to use one or even both of the remaining spots on talls and close that gap.Maybe the juniors werent good enough but im not buying that.

Luckily we finally addressed the need with Lynch but there is no reason why we cannot play three talls and get games into Balta and Moore this is something that really needs to happen imo.

Its not change for change sake there is a need to get games into a seriously inexperienced second 22 you obviously can not see this and disagree thats fine im happy to disagree.Every club has this problem finding a balance between getting games into the younger or more inexperienced blokes and those who may be slightly better but arent taking us fwd.It really is a list management problem and certainly is not change for change sake all clubs have damn good reasons for doing it.

Despite making a preliminary final we do have underperforming players or have some pretty serious deficiencies who IMO we need to replace and give those games to some of the younger players within the club.We also have some real deficiencies in some key areas and the only way to address that is get games into those players who address it.Lastly we need to build real depth and not just have a heap of players who play in certain positions but have no experience behind them.

Im all for finding the right balance and its just my opinion we have not done that.

Adelaide lost Cameron last year the year before Betts and him were great up forward.
It’s gonna be interesting to see which way we go if theres more one on ones from centre clearances.
Higgins would be pretty smart at the base of a one on one marking conteet
Whoever it is that plays on the wing I hope they can be a bit more threatening some of the time.
At 194 Kmac would be a serious weapon if he could take a mark more often.

Fwd
Higgins Lynch Castagna
Caddy Reiwoldt Rioli

Macintosh Martin Lambert

Houli Astbury Vlaustin
Grimes Rance Broad

Nank Cotch Prestia

Int
Short Edwards Butler Garthwaite
Emerg
Balta Grigg Graham Collier-Dawkins

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Adelaide lost Cameron last year the year before Betts and him were great up forward.
It’s gonna be interesting to see which way we go if theres more one on ones from centre clearances.
Higgins would be pretty smart at the base of a one on one marking conteet
Whoever it is that plays on the wing I hope they can be a bit more threatening some of the time.
At 194 Kmac would be a serious weapon if he could take a mark more often.

Fwd
Higgins Lynch Castagna
Caddy Reiwoldt Rioli

Macintosh Martin Lambert

Houli Astbury Vlaustin
Grimes Rance Broad

Nank Cotch Prestia

Int
Short Edwards Butler Garthwaite
Emerg
Balta Grigg Graham Collier-Dawkins

Good team, but two backs and so only one mid on the pine for rotations has me worried.

 

[beema limapep]

Any talk of a fit Astbury not playing is madness IMHO. Just saying.

 

[Cdog71]

Good team, but two backs and so only one mid on the pine for rotations has me worried.

Mmm I was thinking there’d be a few chances for a spekky up forward for Castagna with one on ones and it’s important to have one of our best runners on the wing.
Probably having Broad and Garthwaite
in the team is a unnecessary but I’d like to see Garthwaite developed

Grigg on the bench for Garthwaite.
Only one of Houli or Short depending on form and Graham on the bench.
I like Graham, but he’s used as a defensive mid.
I’d rather em try outplay the oppo mids than waste an option to slow down one of their options

 

[mopsy]

for me three areas maybe four areas i think we can improve on. Is there a need to improve well thats the crux of recent debate. Some think we do others think we dont theres no right or wrong only each persons opinion.
Areas we need to improve and this is just one opinion .
1/ FIRST/SECOND RUCK. It means a structural change. to some degree most are against changing anything.IMO there is no way we can continue with Grigg or anyone his size in the role the better sides have sorted it out and the rest of the comp are coming. This problem ties in with other issues like finding a way to get games into the talls we have on the list.
I think as brave and competetive as toby is we should be aiming at a more rounded ruckman. I know this wont go down well but hey its what i think.

2/THE LACK OF SIZE ACROSS THE TEAM. its not just talls but fwd hb and the midfield.The key area for me is midfield and the way we constantly lose clearances and contested ball. Imo it is imperative if they show they are up to it we play both RC-D and Ross.

3/ THE LACK OF QUALITY OUTSIDE MIDS. Everyone at some stage has complained about those in the role.Im not sure if we have an answer here but i do know some we have tried have been poor.

4/ THE LACK OF DEPTH. Not in numbers but the games behind over half the list.We cop a decent number of injuries and in the main its going to be players with no AFL experience coming in.

When i pick a side i have these things in mind im looking for ways we can improve and im looking at not best 22 but what happens if we need to call on players.
Clearly the name of the game is to win but there is a balance that needs to be found. Im not sold we have found that balance.

 

[THE_GUN]

Team i would love to see round 1 but wont happen as Houli,Grigg,Weller will all play

Grimes - Astbury - Vlastuin
Short - Rance - Markov
Balta - Cotchin - McIntosh
Butler - Riewoldt - Edwards
Caddy - Lynch - Rioli
Nankervis - Prestia - Martin
Lambert - Higgins - RCD - Graham

Emerg: Bolton - Ross - Garth - CCJ

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Team i would love to see round 1 but wont happen as Houli,Grigg,Weller will all play

Grimes - Astbury - Vlastuin
Short - Rance - Markov
Balta - Cotchin - McIntosh
Butler - Riewoldt - Edwards
Caddy - Lynch - Rioli
Nankervis - Prestia - Martin
Lambert - Higgins - RCD - Graham

Emerg: Bolton - Ross - Garth - CCJ

So youd think RCD, Balta and Markov probably come out for those 3.

Still not sure Broad has done much wrong yet so id be inclinced to have him in but who for? * its getting harder and harder to pick a best 22 these days.

I remember the days when it was tough enough trying to find 18 decent footballers.

 

[DontArgue4]

I reckon playing all three of Astbury, Rance and Garthwaite is the way forward. Rance will take the piss with so much freedom and Garth is surely ready. I also reckon Garthwaite could play second ruck, so when Nank rests, Rance takes the second tall and Garth goes into the ruck. He would surely have 3 or 4 centimetres on Grigg.

Dont mind this the more i think about it, seeing the oppo try and score while Rance is roaming around free would be ******* hilarious.

Pretty sure Garth played ruck last pre-season against the dons when Nank got a head knock early, he did well if i remember correctly

 

[Hounddd]

I really like the look of Garthwaite - he looks like a great prospect. The idea of Garth and Astbury playing as the 2 KPDs with Rance patrolling in Broad's spot really jumps out at me.

Obviously there's the horses for courses component to this happening, but I'd love to see it play out a few times this year against the big forward lines - Adelaide, West Coast etc.