Opinion Best 22 in 2019

[HTT]

2018 is obviously out the window so we have to look to who will take the field in our 2019 Premiership.

This is the team that lined up last Friday night, which was pretty close to our 2018 best 22

B
David Astbury, Alex Rance, Dylan Grimes

HB
Jayden Short, Nick Vlastuin, Nathan Broad

C
Shaun Grigg, Trent Cotchin, Kamdyn McIntosh

HF
Daniel Rioli, Shane Edwards, Jack Higgins

F
Jack Riewoldt, Dustin Martin, Josh Caddy

FOL
Toby Nankervis, Kane Lambert, Dion Prestia

I/C
Jason Castagna, Bachar Houli, Reece Conca, Jack Graham

I present below, speculation without much real substance

Obviously there's going to be some changes next year, with HOPEFULLY Tom Lynch and Brad Crouch (although I haven't heard much from the latter) coming to the club - so the challenge is to find room. Brandon Ellis, Jacob Townsend, and Dan Butler all appeared to fall out of it too this year, so they may force their way back.
I'm in the camp that reckons minimal change is required going forward - yes the prelim leaves a bitter taste but the reality is that for most of the year no one could get near us at our best.

In the backline, I reckon Jayden Short could be in a bit of trouble. I love the guy and felt he was really stiff in 2017, but he had a couple of poor finals. Ultimately we are playing for premierships here and you need to win the odd final to get there - Brandon Ellis may not be a direct replacement but he stood up in the 2017 finals and we may choose to put him in instead.

In the middle, the likes of Dusty, Cotchin, Prestia, Lambert, Edwards are all locks in our best 22. Shaun Grigg the ruckman may be finished, and for that I wonder if his time in the best 22 is too. Do we replace him with a 2nd ruck? A quality wing? Brad Crouch?

I also reckon Jason Castagna, for all the energy he brings, may find it difficult to hold his spot. Should Lynch come, he'll obviously demand a spot, and even if someone else comes out for him, I reckon Butler is equal or greater in most parts of the game.

That's 3 possible outs, there could be more, there could be less, I'm likely totally wrong. What do you reckon? I don't know too much about the players that spent most of the year in the VFL, those who follow that side, is there anyone I haven't mentioned that could come in and hold down a spot?

 

[BF Tiger]

Non-negotiables: Rance, Grimes, Short, Vlastuin, Cotchin, Rioli, Edwards, Higgins, Riewoldt, Martin, Caddy, Nankervis, Lambert, Prestia (14)

Astbury, Houli - see how Garthwaite kicks on. Spots for two only I think.

Broad, McIntosh - does someone come through and displace one or both.

Grigg - not our second ruckman, so what value does he have? I know he is looked upon as the best football brain amongst the players so does that save him.

Castagna, Butler - might only be space for one in the forward line with Lynch likely arriving

Conca, Ellis - Are they competing for the same spot?

Graham - we want more from him next year I think

Townsend - ???

I'd really like to see some turnover with VFL players pushing through and making a case.

 

[RobsJourney]

I'll have another crack at this:


Grimes, Astbury, Balta
Vlastuin, Rance, Houli
Grigg, Cotchin, Lambert
Caddy, Riewoldt, Bolton
Rioli, Lynch, Butler
Nankervis, Martin, Prestia
Edwards, Graham, Higgins, New Midfielder (Crouch/Shiel/???)


- Bolton to replace Castagna
- Balta to replace Broad, gonna be a beast
- Back Houli in for another season, Vlastuin to step in for Short for now, better defensively despite the pace downgrade (Short really, really disappointed me in finals, think he might be too limited)
- Our whole bench is midfielders, meaning that will be a bigger strength of ours
- We still have the dangerous 3 smalls, Caddy as the medium forward/midfielder, and now 2 gun talls instead of 1

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

I really want stengle and Bolton to become best 22


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[strauchy]

Lynch is pretty much confirmed. No one else is, so we shouldn't be including them.

This would be my best 22:

FB: Grimes Astbury Short
HB: Vlastuin Rance Broad
C: McIntosh Cotchin Lambert
HF: Caddy Riewoldt Edwards
FF: Rioli Lynch Butler
Foll: Nankervis Martin Prestia
I/C: Grigg Higgins Castagna Graham
Emg: Bolton Houli Menadue Garthwaite


Grigg could be squeezed out next year. I think we need a strong midfield. McIntosh can be replaced.

 

[Dr Tigris]

The way I see it is not really trying to list our best 22. But what might happen with new players/development of existing and loss of older players.

Tom Lynch = second genuine quality KPF. That immediately changes our structure and how we play. I don't see that as doing anything to the three dwarves. In fact Tom might make the case for those 3 stronger - more chances at the fall of the ball and more pressure needed given his more limited agility. What Lynch really does is free up Jack to play a more roaming role (or the two of the KPFs roam in a structured way cause major structured problems for the oppo defense), and Tom allows/forces Dusty/Caddy to go tot the midfield more. I expect that both Dusty and Caddy to play lots of time forward, often as the sole 'tall' forward. Defenses will have to play their best defenders on Jack and Tom. So if those 2 deep out past 50 the defense has to follow them - and they both like to move up the ground. That leaves the left over defender to mark Dusty/Caddy. I love the thought of that .

In the midfield we need more grunt. But we will have Higgins one year older (maybe 2nd year blues - hope not). And if we get a bit more Dusty and Caddy then we almost get that extra solid inside mid anyway. If we do manage to trade/FA in a quality mid then probably Conca goes VFL. Which is amazing depth coverage.

As for rucks we would love to have a decent quality ruck that can play around the ground - where you get a mature one of sufficient quality I don't know. But given that they reckon CCJ is potentially an A grade ruck I reckon we could gamble on him playing a few games. And Soldo is OK, if he improves we have a possible contender to stop our problems with good tall rucks.

Overall I don't see huge changes, except for Tom Lynch making our forward line work better. If the Lynch JR combo works like I expect then they will be very mobile and they will create lots of marking opportunities in the forward 50. That could really change how other teams can deal with our long bombs to a marking contest. When we are beaten that strategy is used as a launching pad for the oppo attacks. Lynch allows us to play multiple marking targets in a way we haven't been able to.

 

[This Is Anfield]

Back seven: Rance, Grimes, Astbury, Vlaustin, Short, Houli, Balta (would love to see him come on)
Front two: Reiwoldt, Lynch,
Mid/fwd: Rioli, Butler, Caddy, Higgins of course Dusty, Cotch and Sheds can have spells up forward.
Ruck/Mid: Nankervis, Cotchin, Martin, Edwards, Prestia, Lambert, McIntosh, Grigg, B Ellis.
Bolded are my walk up starters.
Menadue and Markov need to put shitloads of pressure on McIntosh, B Ellis, Grigg and Houli.
Soldo and Chol need to put shitloads of pressure on Nank.
George and Bolton need to put shitloads of pressure on Butler and Higgins.
Lloyd, Graham, Broad, Garthwaite, Broad and Conca to put shitloads of pressure on everyone.

 

[TJASTA]

FB: Graham, Graham, Graham
HB: Graham, Graham, Graham
CW: Graham, Graham, Graham
HF: Graham, Graham, Graham
FF: Graham, Graham, Graham
RU: Graham, Graham, Graham
INT: Graham, Graham, Graham, Graham

 

[tugga]

Word is that Brando is staying. Doesn't want to leave.


My best 22:

B: Rance, Grimes, Short
HB: Houli, Astbury, Vlastuin
C: Edwards, Martin, Lambert
HF: Butler, Riewoldt, Rioli
F: Caddy, Lynch, Higgins
Foll: Nankervis, Martin, Prestia
Inter: Graham, Grigg, Ellis, McIntosh

I'm expecting Conca to go to Freo.
if Broad stays, he needs a massive preseason.
I'm still a bit of a fan of Brando. I'm a bit biased. If we get Crouch and he gets on the park, then Crouch takes his spot.
Castagna I'm not a huge fan of. I want Bolton to go past him very early next year and I think he can. This kid is still raw but has huge upside. Believe me when I say this kid will be a player.
I still hold high hopes for Menadue. Last chance saloon for him though.
Butler starts in front of Lloyd for mine (if Lloyd stays), but will want to play well in the first four weeks.
Garhwaite is waiting in the wings nicely if an injury happens to one of our key backs.
We desperately need another ruck. I'd like to see Preuss in Y&B but I know others don't like him. We need someone other than Soldo. Is Ryan Abbott worth persuing? Is Casboult worth having as insurance? Just anyone over 200cm will do. Balta will be groomed in that role. I'm told the club will pour everything into him and will groom him as our 2nd ruck.

 

[DustinsGuns]

Assuming we get Tom Lynch and we lose one of Conca and Bellis.

FB: GRIMES RANCE GARTWAITE
HB: SHORT ASTBURY HOULI
C: MCINTOSH MARTIN BELLIS/CONCA
HF: EDWARDS RIEWOLDT LAMBERT
FF: RIOLI LYNCH CADDY

RUCK: NANKERVIS COTCHIN PRESTIA

INT: GRIGG BUTLER CASTAGNA GRAHAM

By the midday point of the season I’d like to see Grigg and Conca/Ellis replaced by Markov and Bolton

For what it’s worth. I’d be looking to secure trades for both Ellis and Conca. Hurts our depth for sure but their value is as high as it will be.

A couple of Menadue, Bolton, Stengle, Markov, Balta, Baker and Naish really need to force their way into the side if we are to improve. Unlikely any of the big 4 other than Martin are likely to improve

 

[DustinsGuns]

Need to give Rioli, Butler and Castagna first crack at the smal forwards again. Our pressure was nowhere near as good this season imo with all three only playing together in a handful of games

 

[Aeons]

I'll have another crack at this:


Grimes, Astbury, Balta
Vlastuin, Rance, Houli
Grigg, Cotchin, Lambert
Caddy, Riewoldt, Bolton
Rioli, Lynch, Butler
Nankervis, Martin, Prestia
Edwards, Graham, Higgins, New Midfielder (Crouch/Shiel/???)


- Bolton to replace Castagna
- Balta to replace Broad, gonna be a beast
- Back Houli in for another season, Vlastuin to step in for Short for now, better defensively despite the pace downgrade (Short really, really disappointed me in finals, think he might be too limited)
- Our whole bench is midfielders, meaning that will be a bigger strength of ours
- We still have the dangerous 3 smalls, Caddy as the medium forward/midfielder, and now 2 gun talls instead of 1

i agree with a lot of your post...however pretty tough call on shorty...the mids were thumped and with the amount of clean ball the filth forwards were getting I think we should not jusge the back 6 too harshly...i reckon we lacked outside pace more than anything so would like to see grigg replaced by someone with more pace like markov...i also thinkn if we are fair dinkum we want houli to be playing ressies cause he has been displaced by a youngster coming through...

 

[ForeverHardcore]

Grimes rance Houli
Short astbury vlastuin
Edwards Martin mcintosh
Bolton lynch rioli
Caddy Riewoldt butler
Nank cotch Prestia
Lambert Higgins graham Balta

Emer grigg b Ellis garth

Got to keep emerging the 22
Grigg will eventually get in but dont want him at the start too slow.

2’s

Morris Miller broad
Markov garth b Ellis
Menadue Townsend naish
Baker jones castagna
Moore
Soldo Lloyd grigg

Not sure on these with potentially all leaving

Conca
Stengle
Miles
C Ellis
Drummond

Griffiths and hammer obviously gone!

Bring on brad crouch

 

[Aeons]

Unlikely any of the big 4 other than Martin are likely to improve

They dont need to improve! The bottom four players all need to improve or get moved on.If we can develop the talent in the bottom of the list then we will see real improvement...

 

[_RT_]

Round 1:
B: Grimes Astbury Short
HB: Houli Rance Vlastuin
C: Grigg Cotchin KMac
HF: Butler Riewoldt Rioli
F: Caddy Lynch Higgins
R: Nankervis Martin Prestia
INT: Graham Lambert Broad Edwards

Conca not included as I think the Fremantle offer will be too hard to turn down this time around. I think B.Ellis will remain, but not sure he gets a gig round 1, Castagna is the small who makes way for Lynch.

Round 22:
B: Grimes Astbury Short
HB: Menadue Rance Vlastuin
C: Markov Cotchin KMac
HF: Butler Riewoldt Rioli
F: Caddy Lynch Chol/Moore
R: Nankervis Martin Prestia
INT: Graham Lambert B.Ellis Higgins

By end of next year I'd like to see Markov Menadue & B.Ellis to force their way into the 22 as replacements for Edwards Houli & Grigg. Some might question Edwards going out but like Houli and Grigg, Edwards will be pushing 31 at the end of next season. While some will say what does that matter I think we need to have replacements for them in place heading into 2020 to ensure that we remain one of the contenders.

I think the club has also realised that using Grigg as second ruck is not a good plan any more and will look to eventually bring in a young mobile ruck/forward to fill the role. That would mean we'd revert back to the 3 tall set up that Dimma wanted to establish back in 2013-2016 with Jack Ty and Griff, with Jack Lynch and Chol/Moore who are the 2 best options on our list to play that role. Both have a few years of development in them, both are quite agile and can cover the ground well. They wouldn't need to do more than 5 minutes a quarter in the ruck and up forward would stretch opposition defences which would stop double teams from happening.

Obviously this will change as the trade period unfolds and players come and go.

 

[SA_Tiger11]

Assuming we get Tom Lynch and we lose one of Conca and Bellis.

FB: GRIMES RANCE GARTWAITE
HB: SHORT ASTBURY HOULI
C: MCINTOSH MARTIN BELLIS/CONCA
HF: EDWARDS RIEWOLDT LAMBERT
FF: RIOLI LYNCH CADDY

RUCK: NANKERVIS COTCHIN PRESTIA

INT: GRIGG BUTLER CASTAGNA GRAHAM

By the midday point of the season I’d like to see Grigg and Conca/Ellis replaced by Markov and Bolton

For what it’s worth. I’d be looking to secure trades for both Ellis and Conca. Hurts our depth for sure but their value is as high as it will be.

A couple of Menadue, Bolton, Stengle, Markov, Balta, Baker and Naish really need to force their way into the side if we are to improve. Unlikely any of the big 4 other than Martin are likely to improve

Hope we get a top 10 pick for Vlastuin.

 

[Mr Magic]

2018 is obviously out the window so we have to look to who will take the field in our 2019 Premiership.

This is the team that lined up last Friday night, which was pretty close to our 2018 best 22



I present below, speculation without much real substance

Obviously there's going to be some changes next year, with HOPEFULLY Tom Lynch and Brad Crouch (although I haven't heard much from the latter) coming to the club - so the challenge is to find room. Brandon Ellis, Jacob Townsend, and Dan Butler all appeared to fall out of it too this year, so they may force their way back.
I'm in the camp that reckons minimal change is required going forward - yes the prelim leaves a bitter taste but the reality is that for most of the year no one could get near us at our best.

In the backline, I reckon Jayden Short could be in a bit of trouble. I love the guy and felt he was really stiff in 2017, but he had a couple of poor finals. Ultimately we are playing for premierships here and you need to win the odd final to get there - Brandon Ellis may not be a direct replacement but he stood up in the 2017 finals and we may choose to put him in instead.

In the middle, the likes of Dusty, Cotchin, Prestia, Lambert, Edwards are all locks in our best 22. Shaun Grigg the ruckman may be finished, and for that I wonder if his time in the best 22 is too. Do we replace him with a 2nd ruck? A quality wing? Brad Crouch?

I also reckon Jason Castagna, for all the energy he brings, may find it difficult to hold his spot. Should Lynch come, he'll obviously demand a spot, and even if someone else comes out for him, I reckon Butler is equal or greater in most parts of the game.

That's 3 possible outs, there could be more, there could be less, I'm likely totally wrong. What do you reckon? I don't know too much about the players that spent most of the year in the VFL, those who follow that side, is there anyone I haven't mentioned that could come in and hold down a spot?

Grimes Rance Short

Vlastuin Astbury Houli

Grigg Dusty McIntosh

Caddy Lynch Edwards

Graham JR Rioli

Nankervis Cotchin Lambert

Interchange: Prestia, Conca, Broad, Higgins

The trouble for me is what to do with Butler and Castagna as well as Ellis especially when Rioli and Higgins are clearly ahead and Graham offers more as well as improves our overall matchup strength

 

[DustinsGuns]

Hope we get a top 10 pick for Vlastuin.

Not best 22.

Lol, jk. I was always going to miss someone. Garthwaite/Grigg/Graham comes out for him

 

[DustinsGuns]

The trouble for me is what to do with Butler and Castagna as well as Ellis especially when Rioli and Higgins are clearly ahead and Graham offers more as well as improves our overall matchup strength

I think its a positional basis though.

Is Higgins a better player than Butler and Castagna? Yes, or at least he will be with another Pre-Season.

BUT

Is Higgins a better pressure forward than Butler or Castagna? No, no, and no. Higgins shouldn't be really competing with Rioli, Butler, Castagna, Baker, Stengle, Bolton, etc. He has kicked a few goals, but he looks far better in the midfield. He should be competing with mid-forwards like Edwards, Lambert, Caddy and Graham for a place in the team. We look so much better with 3 pressure forwards and with Lynch in the forward next year we will be losing even move pressure.

Personally, I think Caddy, though fantastic in his role this year, needs to drop 5kg and get some pace back to move back 50% into the midfield. He is the weak link when it comes to defensive pressure in our forward 50 because he is just too slow. Lynch is likely to be the same. 3 quick forwards have paid dividends for us so I think we need to stick with this in 2019.

 

[Mr Magic]

I think its a positional basis though.

Is Higgins a better player than Butler and Castagna? Yes, or at least he will be with another Pre-Season.

BUT

Is Higgins a better pressure forward than Butler or Castagna? No, no, and no. Higgins shouldn't be really competing with Rioli, Butler, Castagna, Baker, Stengle, Bolton, etc. He has kicked a few goals, but he looks far better in the midfield. He should be competing with mid-forwards like Edwards, Lambert, Caddy and Graham for a place in the team. We look so much better with 3 pressure forwards and with Lynch in the forward next year we will be losing even move pressure.

Personally, I think Caddy, though fantastic in his role this year, needs to drop 5kg and get some pace back to move back 50% into the midfield. He is the weak link when it comes to defensive pressure in our forward 50 because he is just too slow. Lynch is likely to be the same. 3 quick forwards have paid dividends for us so I think we need to stick with this in 2019.

Yeah but its not that simple is it?

The pressured forward line is okay but what are the rules in 2019 and how do we go with Lynch in the forward line along with JR?

Can our pressure game be as effective in the forward line in 2019 especially as other teams are more effective preparing for our style?

The other thing is should we not comparing Butler to the effectiveness of a lot stronger inside mid who improves our clearances where we are definitely wearing in terms of overall team effective improvement? In that sense Higgins is the perfect conduit between the forward line and midfield in terms of overall impact and defensive set-up.

It is not as though there should be strong cause for RFC to be hostage to a heavily forward defensive setup into perpetuity especially when our clearances is a recognised weaknesses. Surely match ups analysis dictates horses for courses methodologies!!

A more balanced comprehensive approach is probably less likely to attract rule changes to inhibit it as well!!!

The question is at the margin, are we better giving a little in terms of extreme forward pressure for a bigger improvement in the guts and clearances? Can the likes of Higgins and co only cause a slight drop off while other pros more than compensate for such a loss especially if the defensive ethos is maintained?

 

[TigerImposter]

Too early for this thread.

 

[Daka]

Round 1:
B: Grimes Astbury Short
HB: Houli Rance Vlastuin
C: Grigg Cotchin KMac
HF: Butler Riewoldt Rioli
F: Caddy Lynch Higgins
R: Nankervis Martin Prestia
INT: Graham Lambert Broad Edwards

Conca not included as I think the Fremantle offer will be too hard to turn down this time around. I think B.Ellis will remain, but not sure he gets a gig round 1, Castagna is the small who makes way for Lynch.

Round 22:
B: Grimes Astbury Short
HB: Menadue Rance Vlastuin
C: Markov Cotchin KMac
HF: Butler Riewoldt Rioli
F: Caddy Lynch Chol/Moore
R: Nankervis Martin Prestia
INT: Graham Lambert B.Ellis Higgins

By end of next year I'd like to see Markov Menadue & B.Ellis to force their way into the 22 as replacements for Edwards Houli & Grigg. Some might question Edwards going out but like Houli and Grigg, Edwards will be pushing 31 at the end of next season. While some will say what does that matter I think we need to have replacements for them in place heading into 2020 to ensure that we remain one of the contenders.

I think the club has also realised that using Grigg as second ruck is not a good plan any more and will look to eventually bring in a young mobile ruck/forward to fill the role. That would mean we'd revert back to the 3 tall set up that Dimma wanted to establish back in 2013-2016 with Jack Ty and Griff, with Jack Lynch and Chol/Moore who are the 2 best options on our list to play that role. Both have a few years of development in them, both are quite agile and can cover the ground well. They wouldn't need to do more than 5 minutes a quarter in the ruck and up forward would stretch opposition defences which would stop double teams from happening.

Obviously this will change as the trade period unfolds and players come and go.

I can't see anyone displacing Houli he is still more consistent than the others even against Collingwood he was like one of the few running across the ground for our team.

 

[guruisatiger]

Backs--- grimes--- Garthwaite-- short
Hbacks- markov- rance --- Vlaustin
Cntrs- balta--- Cotchin-----Menadue
Hf--- caddy ----reiwoldt--- rioli
Ff- -bolton- lynch-'- butler
R - chol--- dusty --- prestia
Inter from-' higgins-- lambert-- edwards-- Astbury - graham
Macintosh--- lloyd

 

[Tigerbob]

I expect to see less of Grigg and Houli next year unless we get hit with injuries.

 

[Stevi_Tigers]

Move short up to a wing liability in the backline

Rest depends on trades if broad goes play garth in his position

Markov to take shorts spot In the backline