Prediction Best 22 Rd1 2020

Veer Right

Team Captain
May 11, 2019
414
568
AFL Club
St Kilda
Career Stats

Butler Career - 45 games - Age 23

Stats that matter for a forward pocket.

Disposals - 11.0
Goals - 1.2
Behinds - 0.6
Tackles - 3.6
Goal Assists - 0.8
Inside 50 - 2.7
Marks inside 50 - 0.8
Score involvements - 4.6
Turnovers - 2.4
Intercepts - 1.5

He's doing enough at the tigers. Pressures good and goals and assists equates to 2.0 goals a game for the team which is what you want from a forward pocket. Like i have stated i expect major improvement with us next year. These numbers will improve.

Lonie Career - 63 games - Age 23

Disposals - 12.7
Goals - 0.9
Behinds - 1.1
Tackles - 2.8
Goal Assists - 0.5
Inside 50 - 2.0
Marks inside 50 - 1.0
Score involvements - 5.1
Turnovers - 2.6
Intercepts - 1.5
 

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SaintsSeptember

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Mar 19, 2008
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Career Stats

Butler Career - 45 games - Age 23

Stats that matter for a forward pocket.

Disposals - 11.0
Goals - 1.2
Behinds - 0.6
Tackles - 3.6
Goal Assists - 0.8
Inside 50 - 2.7
Marks inside 50 - 0.8
Score involvements - 4.6
Turnovers - 2.4
Intercepts - 1.5

He's doing enough at the tigers. Pressures good and goals and assists equates to 2.0 goals a game for the team which is what you want from a forward pocket. Like i have stated i expect major improvement with us next year. These numbers will improve.

Lonie Career - 63 games - Age 23

Disposals - 12.7
Goals - 0.9
Behinds - 1.1
Tackles - 2.8
Goal Assists - 0.5
Inside 50 - 2.0
Marks inside 50 - 1.0
Score involvements - 5.1
Turnovers - 2.6
Intercepts - 1.5
But what do you base that on?
Yes you've used his Career statistics. But he was at his best 3 years ago. Why did he stop playing like that.
Lonie's career statss include his horror 2017, where he kicked 6 goals to 14 behinds.
He followed it up in 2018 with 16 goals to 10 behinds.

I just think its far from a lock that Butler will play each week when there are 5 other guys with potential to have better results.
 

BrutThough

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Oct 2, 2010
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But what do you base that on?
Yes you've used his Career statistics. But he was at his best 3 years ago. Why did he stop playing like that.
Lonie's career statss include his horror 2017, where he kicked 6 goals to 14 behinds.
He followed it up in 2018 with 16 goals to 10 behinds.

I just think its far from a lock that Butler will play each week when there are 5 other guys with potential to have better results.
I think both Lonie and Butler will be best 22.

What Butler has over the other guys he is a consistently very good with his pressure where some of the others cant be relied upon to always tackle and chase.
 

Veer Right

Team Captain
May 11, 2019
414
568
AFL Club
St Kilda
Yes you've used his Career statistics. But he was at his best 3 years ago. Why did he stop playing like that.
Nope sorry. His second season was just as good but he still got less games. 15 in total. Richmond is not St Kilda, they have actual player depth. We would be raving what a player he might become.

This season he fell away completely in just 7 games. I don't know what role Hardwick wanted him to play for the team but clearly the writing was on the wall to look elsewhere for a permanent 22 spot and a fresh start.

Lets see how things play out and we can revisit this in 12 months.
 

prophetic1

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Saying Butler will make it is also wrong. Because he played some good games with Richmond , who no longer played him, he'll stay in our best 22.
Newsflash. If we take this attitude with all the castoffs from "good" teams we'll never become one.
ALL of them are crappy at crumbing and don't kick more than a goal per game on average.

Hind 25YO Fast . 1 goal per game.
Lonie 23YO slowly improving 1 goal per game.
Long 22YO Pressure acts . 0.9 goals per game.
Kent 25YO Fast 0.9 goals per game.
Parker 23YO tall for a small, X factor, 0.9 goals per game.
Butler 23YO fast. 0.7 goals a game fed from Richmond's inferior midfield.

Some of them need to pull their finger out.
The others can go where players who don't pull their finger out end up.
You do have a point ....one of those players would need to improve their performances by 100% to get close to average 2.09 goals per game as was the case with MILNEY.....and thats the kind of output we'd be looking for....that's the yard stick that selects itself.... its up to them i guess but six or so is a good breeding ground to have one emerge.. MILNE only averaged 1.5 goals in his first year....
 

maanco

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Oct 24, 2011
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Meh. The logic dumbfounds me sometimes.
All year iv'e been hearing how crappy the supply to our forward line from our crap midfield is.
But Butler didn't do much at Richmond because its all about the team.

I don't recall a goal ever being kicked off more than 1 foot.

Score involvements per game ( average ):
Kent 5.3
Hind 4.8
Lonie 4.7
Long 4.1
Parker 4.1
Butler 3.1

Goal Assists.
Kent 1.
Hind 0.5
Long 0.4
Butler 0.4
Parker 0.4
Lonie 0.2

Tackles inside 50
Lonie 1.4
Long 1.3
Butler 1.1
Parker 1.1
Kent 0.8
Hind 0.5

Pressure Acts
Butler 20.1
( Weller 17 Lol )
Parker 16.6
Hind 14.2
Kent 13.2
Lonie 13.2
Long 12.4
Someone should normalise these stats. remind me.

Do these pressure acts cause turnovers/stoppages ?
 

pebblesofsand

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Oct 18, 2011
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You do have a point ....one of those players would need to improve their performances by 100% to get close to average 2.09 goals per game as was the case with MILNEY.....and thats the kind of output we'd be looking for....that's the yard stick that selects itself.... its up to them i guess but six or so is a good breeding ground to have one emerge.. MILNE only averaged 1.5 goals in his first year....
Yep that's the yardstick for someone like Milney or Betts - ie a small forward who can't go through the midfield. That's Lonies downfall ATM (that and not kicking straight!!!)

The other option is if the likes of Gresham, Kent, Parker, Butler or Long could average a goal a game while being able to provide meaningful minutes in the midfield. Extends our mid rotations while still providing goal scoring capability.
 

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prophetic1

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Yep that's the yardstick for someone like Milney or Betts - ie a small forward who can't go through the midfield. That's Lonies downfall ATM (that and not kicking straight!!!)

The other option is if the likes of Gresham, Kent, Parker, Butler or Long could average a goal a game while being able to provide meaningful minutes in the midfield. Extends our mid rotations while still providing goal scoring capability.
This was originally in response to "SAINTS OF SEPTEMBER" saying "ALL of them are crappy at crumbing and don't kick more than a goal per game on average." So I presumed thats what we were limiting our critique to. If any of them can achieve the crumbing/small forward role and achieve 2.09 goals a game over their career i wouldnt care if they didnt have capacity or versatlity through the midfield. The 'CRUMBING/small forward elite output is what we want...adding to our ability to conjure scoreboard pressure. To date I would assert that as you have suggested these guys have failed in their ability to extend our mid rotations, their meaninful minutes in the midfield havent meant much.
 
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SaintsSeptember

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This was originally in response to "SAINTS OF SEPTEMBER" saying "ALL of them are crappy at crumbing and don't kick more than a goal per game on average." So I presumed thats what we were limiting our critique to. If any of them can achieve the crumbing/small forward role and achieve 2.09 goals a game over their career i wouldnt care if they didnt have capacity or versatlity through the midfield. The 'CRUMBING/small forward elite output is what we want...adding to our ability to conjure scoreboard pressure. To date I would assert that as you have suggested these guys have failed in their ability to extend our mid rotations, their meaninful minutes in the midfield havent meant much.
I can't see us finding a Betts or Milne, it seems much harder now for the smalls to get those opportunistic goals. But time and time again we were seeing Bruce bring it to ground , and the opposition getting it too easily.
The sad thing about Jack Lonie, is that if he kicked half as many behinds as goals , he'd be scoring up around Tom Papley level.

Lonie and Kent this year both had as many shots at goal than Garry Ablett, Conner Rozee, Fantasia, Toby Green.
Lonie got the most contested possessions of our small forwards. ( Kent second - Bruce and Membrey averaged more ).
Long and Lonie got the most clearances of our small forwards. ( Bruce got more ).
Kent averaged more marks inside 50 than Bruce did.
Lonie averaged as many tackles inside 50 as Luke Dahlhaus or Alex Neale-Bullen.
 

prophetic1

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I can't see us finding a Betts or Milne, it seems much harder now for the smalls to get those opportunistic goals. But time and time again we were seeing Bruce bring it to ground , and the opposition getting it too easily.
The sad thing about Jack Lonie, is that if he kicked half as many behinds as goals , he'd be scoring up around Tom Papley level.

Lonie and Kent this year both had as many shots at goal than Garry Ablett, Conner Rozee, Fantasia, Toby Green.
Lonie got the most contested possessions of our small forwards. ( Kent second - Bruce and Membrey averaged more ).
Long and Lonie got the most clearances of our small forwards. ( Bruce got more ).
Kent averaged more marks inside 50 than Bruce did.
Lonie averaged as many tackles inside 50 as Luke Dahlhaus or Alex Neale-Bullen.
I suppose what i want to say is that, as long as we are trying to compare our YOUNG boys to other teams players and even our past players This GROUP OF POTENTIALS are probably always going to 'fall short in our estimation of their performance and capabilities...even though i talk of MILNE and his crumbing 'magnetic field' and how i wish for that ilk of player i believe we have to create NEW FREAKS....NEW GENIUS of a completely ORIGINAL nature. I want to believe that from the litter we have, surely some must emerge that gives rise to other teams forums comparing their guys to ours. THEN our boys become the yardstick by which sheer awe and wonder is witnessed and valued. And yet again here i am stating the bleedin obvious. Sometimes its necessary to just remind myself that's all. A little patience is harder when the outcome seems close at hand and more achievable than ever. I feel what we want is at hand.
 

kernelT

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Aug 15, 2010
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The side I would pick

Savage Howard Wilkie
Roberton Carlisle Coffield
Hill Steele Billings
Lonie Membrey Gresham
Parker King Ryder

Marshall Hannebery Clark

Int Dunstan Jones Ross Battle

Emg Bytel Sinclair Gears
 

prophetic1

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Can't remember the last time Saints took someone who was training with them over summer. Smoke screen?
Maybe its all part of the buzz..."There was movement at the station, for the word had passed around That the colt from old Regret had got away. And had joined the wild bush horses – he was worth a thousand pound, So all the cracks had gathered to the fray." (opening lines of ‘The Man from Snowy River’, 1890) All the words, actions, draftings and now the stars aligning ... we're just waiting for the drop...the needle hits the record ...BEHOLD ... the SAINTS...... the place where its at.
 

Jade Buddha

Premiership Player
Nov 16, 2014
3,071
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The side I would pick

Savage Howard Wilkie
Roberton Carlisle Coffield
Hill Steele Billings
Lonie Membrey Gresham
Parker King Ryder

Marshall Hannebery Clark

Int Dunstan Jones Ross Battle

Emg Bytel Sinclair Gears
Nice line up
I’d consider Hind ahead of Lonie
I’d also look at strategically playing Roma at CHF for big blocks during the game
 

prophetic1

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I was just watching the footage of Billy SLATER and Sammy taking the boys for some resilience enhancement....and couldnt help but think its such a strong positive couple of blokes to team together to inspire the younger boys. You couldn't wish for two better examples of SPIRIT you'd like to instill into your youth at the SAINTS. WELL DONE! nice bit of footage too!
 

gringo2011

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Angus Schumacher - ex blue, defender, 20yrs old is training with the club, doesn’t look bad at all.

Because when I look at the Saints the first thing I think of us needing is a rebound defender. Roberton, Clarke, Webster and Savage, Coffield and Paton in reserve. Hind and Jones, Dongle Lapland and Wilkie. I think we are trying to start a trend of 22 defenders on the field at one time.
 

prophetic1

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Because when I look at the Saints the first thing I think of us needing is a rebound defender. Roberton, Clarke, Webster and Savage, Coffield and Paton in reserve. Hind and Jones, Dongle Lapland and Wilkie. I think we are trying to start a trend of 22 defenders on the field at one time.

Perhaps their vision is not disimiliar to chess whereby every piece is both defensive and offensive...the attack is protected by the less significant defenders and makes use of the defensive strategy to attack without loss. I dont know even the book of proverbs says "Without vision the people perish!" somebody has method to this plethora of defensive pieces. lol!
 

MOLTEN GANGLANDS

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Jun 4, 2018
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started doing this in the other thread and had to finish it off


wilkie, dougal, geary
robbo, snake, webster
hill , gresh , jones
billings, battle, hind
skunk, winx, lonie

marshall, spook, hanners

ross, bytel, clark, steele

em: coff, paton, ryder

*players in bold are locked in their positions, or taking a rest on the bench, the rest can be rotated around.

few notes, with jones, hill and hanners in the team now, billings moves back to half forward, he's played his best footy on the wing, but can still be very damaging at half forward and it's a better fit for the team. Obviously can move them around, jones to half back flank etc, depending on how the game is going. Having wilkie and robbo able to play tall and small allows us to stack our bench with versatile mids, while still having dougs and carlisle as the pillars. Battle and skunk hit up the wings, king stays deep, hind and lonie do what they do best.

Gresh can rest in the forward pocket too which will allow clark or bytel some runs on ball. Spook and steele interchange as our main in and under player. Steele can run a tag if cripps/kelly is taking us apart, but otherwise I'd prefer not to see them both in there at the same time. Battle can take the ruck for a few minutes a quarter. Ryder doesn't get a game unless marshall goes down.

The thing that really strikes me is we now have a number of players capable of effectively running through the midfield; ross, gresh, spook, jones, hill, billings, hanners, clark, steele, bytel (if not straight away then by the end of the year). That's ten out of the 22, much improved!
 
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Mowman

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Side i would like for first couple of weeks depending on injury and form

Jones Howard Wilkie
Roberton Carlisle Coffield
Hill Steele Billings
Lonie Battle Gresham
Parker King Membrey

Marshall Hannebery Clark

Int Dunstan Bytel Ross Ryder

Emg Savage Sinclair Gears

Don't see us playing finals so would like as many games into King Bytel Coff Clark Paton ect
 

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