Best 2nd key fowards for each club in 2017

[Capt Hindsight]

Darling has been the primary key forward for a number of weeks also.

The issue with being the number 1 key forward is you also get the best defender so for some players they perform worse rather than performing better.
Depends on the player and the team.

 

[Killer_Mike]

The issue with being the number 1 key forward is you also get the best defender so for some players they perform worse rather than performing better.
Depends on the player and the team.

That's not always true. Hurley doesn't get the best forward regularly.

 

[Capt Hindsight]

Wow, scary our second best key forward was playing off the back flank last week!!!

Just went off where they have played most of the season. Tim O'Brien isn't that far behind Gunston as he has 17.6. So maybe O'Brien will be the best at the end of the year if Gunston is played out of position.

 

[21knights]

Jenkins lower than I expected. Significant injury outs, or just battling for his share of ball in the Crows forward line?

He has missed four games through injury, five if you count the game he got injured in which would be fair as he left the ground early in the first quarter. Jenkins always seems to take time to regain form also.

 

[Capt Hindsight]

That's not always true. Hurley doesn't get the best forward regularly.

That is because Hurley isn't Essendon's best lockdown defender. Hurley is used more for attacking off the half back line.
Hartley and Ambrose are the 2 best lockdown defenders at Essendon.

 

[citizen-erased]

Wow, scary our second best key forward was playing off the back flank last week!!!

Not sure Gunston is your number 2 forward anymore
Likely O'Brien now

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

Just went off where they have played most of the season. Tim O'Brien isn't that far behind Gunston as he has 17.6. So maybe O'Brien will be the best at the end of the year if Gunston is played out of position.

Yeah I get that, just funny that our second best forward in terms of goals is now a half back flanker 9though that could change this week, who knows). O'Brien and Schoenmakers would be our 2nd talls, possibly even our numbers 1 & 2 with Roughead playing more through the middle.

 

[kane249]

He doesn't get rated harshly for a perceived lack of goals, he gets rated harshly because he was expected to be a better player than he has turned out. Also because he is soft.

See the list in the OP, what exactly are your expecting from the second key forward? He consistently gets 40+ goals a year which is already amongst the top echelon in the league for that role.

Some people have unrealistic expectations of what the 2nd key forward is supposed to provide in the modern day AFL.

 

[Scotland]

Tom McDonald shouldn't really be rated based on total or average goals. Has 20 goals in 10 games and none in the other 7. I haven't watched all 17 Melbourne games but I reckon he's been forward in about 10 of them. So he's really been a ~2 goal a game player half the time rather than a ~1 goal a game player playing forward each week. Gunston is the reverse. 56 marks inside 50 last year and 19 rebound 50s. Currently on 13 and 19. Role change.

 

[Bardo State]

Just went off where they have played most of the season. Tim O'Brien isn't that far behind Gunston as he has 17.6. So maybe O'Brien will be the best at the end of the year if Gunston is played out of position.

Gunston has been playing behind the ball and through the wings a lot for pretty much the whole season. Positionally it would make more sense to list O'Brien, although none of Hawthorn's key forwards have been playing as such. At the start of the season Puopolo played as the deepest forward and now that role is with Duryea. Hawthorn's taller forwards tend to play between the arcs.

On talent I'd say Roghead is Hawthorn's second key forward. Right now positionally I'd probably argue Schoenmakers is playing that role with Roughead through the guts and Gunston behind the ball.

 

[Scotland]

See the list in the OP, what exactly are your expecting from the second key forward? He consistently gets 40+ goals a year which is already amongst the top echelon in the league for that role.

Some people have unrealistic expectations of what the 2nd key forward is supposed to provide in the modern day AFL.

Jack Darling 2012/13 is what I'd hope for in 2017. 53 goals in the absence of Kennedy then back to 42 the following year. Consistently getting 40ish goals is good, but that's really his level whether a 1st, 2nd, 3rd or otherwise forward.

2 x 4, 1 x 3, 10 x 2, 1 x 1, 2 x 0 goals this year. Been 47 games since a bag of 5, which he's done 6 times in 144 games.

Kennedy went out for 5 games and Darling went 0, 2, 0, 3, 4. You'd love to see him stand up and say 'I'm the man, now' and kick a big bag but he just doesn't. Unfortunately in terms of impact he's more Josh Hill than Josh Kennedy.

 

[SloppyJoe]

See the list in the OP, what exactly are your expecting from the second key forward? He consistently gets 40+ goals a year which is already amongst the top echelon in the league for that role.

Some people have unrealistic expectations of what the 2nd key forward is supposed to provide in the modern day AFL.

I didn't say the harsh rating was warranted; I just stated what I understood to be the basis for it.

 

[Capt Hindsight]

Gunston has been playing behind the ball and through the wings a lot for pretty much the whole season. Positionally it would make more sense to list O'Brien, although none of Hawthorn's key forwards have been playing as such. At the start of the season Puopolo played as the deepest forward and now that role is with Duryea. Hawthorn's taller forwards tend to play between the arcs.

On talent I'd say Roughead is Hawthorn's second key forward. Right now positionally I'd probably argue Schoenmakers is playing that role with Roughead through the guts and Gunston behind the ball.

Roughead has kicked the most goals of the tall key position players so from my perspective and for comparison with the other clubs he has to be listed as Hawthorn's no.1 key forward also he has the most marks inside 50 of any Hawthorn player with 28. For example Daniher spending considerable time each match relief rucking at Essendon doesn't make Hooker our no.1 key forward because Daniher has kicked more goals and is the better key forward.
Jack Gunston also still has more marks inside 50 with 13 compared to 12 for Tim O'Brien and 6 for Schoenmakers.
At the end of the season I would swap Gunston with O'Brien assuming he passes Gunston in marks inside 50 and goals.

 

[kane249]

Jack Darling 2012/13 is what I'd hope for in 2017. 53 goals in the absence of Kennedy then back to 42 the following year. Consistently getting 40ish goals is good, but that's really his level whether a 1st, 2nd, 3rd or otherwise forward.

2 x 4, 1 x 3, 10 x 2, 1 x 1, 2 x 0 goals this year. Been 47 games since a bag of 5, which he's done 6 times in 144 games.

Kennedy went out for 5 games and Darling went 0, 2, 0, 3, 4. You'd love to see him stand up and say 'I'm the man, now' and kick a big bag but he just doesn't. Unfortunately in terms of impact he's more Josh Hill than Josh Kennedy.

You kind of answered your own query in the first part, in Kennedy's extended absence he had his best ever return then when Kennedy played a full season the year after he returned to his normal output.

Until we get Kennedy out for a very long period of time or retiring we aren't going to know if he is capable of the 50+ he put up in the year Kennedy missed. We only have one year so it's a small sample set to work off.

Until then he's doing his job of putting up 40+ as the secondary key forward which is rare in the league.

For context, 2016 was his highest goal return since 2012 but people still think he's not doing enough and he's regressed in his career.

 

[DrEvil_]

11. Jack Gunston (Hawthorn) 18 goals, 10 behinds, 9 contested marks, 13 marks inside 50.

Not bad for a backman.

 

[TiggerMan22]

And we're somehow top 4. Lmao.

 

[PowerForGood]

very concerning for port if dixon goes down. what do you think port fans?

Like most teams, not as concerned as it would have been say 10-15 years ago.
Marks inside 50 for Port Adelaide: Avg 13.6 (3rd in comp)
Marks inside 50 for Dixon: Avg 2.7 (7th in comp)
which is less than 2 in 10.

 

[Heaps of fun]

And we're somehow top 4. Lmao.

Crazy what a weak year it is.

 

[Capt Hindsight]

Not bad for a backman.

Has he played back all year? As he has more marks inside 50 than Tim O'Brien and Schoenmakers.
Like i said to a few other Hawthorn supporters in this chat at the end of the year I'd probably change it to Tim O'Brien who is only 1 goal and 1 mark inside 50 behind Gunston.

 

[Bardo State]

Roughead has kicked the most goals of the tall key position players so from my perspective and for comparison with the other clubs he has to be listed as Hawthorn's no.1 key forward also he has the most marks inside 50 of any Hawthorn player with 28. For example Daniher spending considerable time each match relief rucking at Essendon doesn't make Hooker our no.1 key forward because Daniher has kicked more goals and is the better key forward.
Jack Gunston also still has more marks inside 50 with 13 compared to 12 for Tim O'Brien and 6 for Schoenmakers.
At the end of the season I would swap Gunston with O'Brien assuming he passes Gunston in marks inside 50 and goals.

Not a criticism, just an observation about how Hawthorn has used its players traditionally seen as key forwards. I've always understood the second key forward to be a positional/strategic thing. Who is the marking forward that gets the second most amount of traffic directed through them i50? The closest has been Roughead but even he is 33rd in the league for average marks inside 50 (your example of Daniher is 11th, the highest at Essendon and the forward that has the most traffic directed through them). The next highest for Hawthorn is O'Brien at 80th. Schoenmakers is 84th and Gunston isn't in the top 100. Obviously that isn't an issue of talent but of positional usage.

 

[Capt Hindsight]

And we're somehow top 4. Lmao.

Richmond this season have the 3rd best defense in the competition. Which offsets having the 6th lowest scoring points scored.

 

[want2spoodge_pettifer]

Crazy what a weak year it is.

And despite all that your club sits second last with, on average, an older list than ours.

 

[Bardo State]

Has he played back all year? As he has more marks inside 50 than Tim O'Brien and Schoenmakers.
Like i said to a few other Hawthorn supporters in this chat at the end of the year I'd probably change it to Tim O'Brien who is only 1 goal and 1 mark inside 50 behind Gunston.

He has taken more total, not on a per game basis. It's probably more accurate to say he has played through a wing as a sort of utility than purely as a backman like his role last week.

 

[Heaps of fun]

And despite all that your club sits second last with, on average, an older list than ours.

Not sure where you're getting that from? North have the second youngest list after Brisbane.

 

[Tulip]

Cant believe TMac has 20 goals. Only moved up forward Round 11.