Best 5 Defenders Since 2000

[Captain_Bender]

You do realise that Rance is quite literally five months removed from this scenario, yes?

As in, in August 2017, Rance wasn’t the best anything, according to your statement.

Let that sink in for a second.

And Rance went on to prove himself a true champion of the game

 

[Blind Turn]

And Rance went on to prove himself a true champion of the game

Robert Flower was a true champion of the game. Mitch Morton wasn’t. It didn’t require finals success to cement Flower’s reputation, and a premiership didn’t make Morton any less spuddy.

 

[Captain_Bender]

Robert Flower was a true champion of the game. Mitch Morton wasn’t. It didn’t require finals success to cement Flower’s reputation, and a premiership didn’t make Morton any less spuddy.

But we aren't comparing Robert Flower to Mitch Morton here we are comparing Alex Rance to Michael Hurley in which Rance is clearly superior and btw unlike Hurley Flower was able to at least win a final too

 

[gungho]

Enright before Clement? Enight is a hell of a player mate but most of his AAs etc come off the backs of consecutive finals appearances, Clement destroyed everyone in the comp and had a cannon as a leg, they actually changed the rules to nullify him.

You are not suggesting with a straight face that James Clement was a better footballer than Corey Enright. Are you Frank?

 

[matey]

Absolutely I am.

But in fairness, I've never been shy in expressing that opinion. Hurley is the best defender in the league.

Are you serious.... Hurley would be lucky enough to polish Rance's shoes!

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Fletcher’s achievements:

2x Premiership Player
2x All Australian
1x Best and Fairest

Rance’s achievements:

1 Premiership Player
4x All Australian (1x Captain)
1x Best and Fairest

Rance has basically matched Fletcher’s career achievements in half as many games.

 

[Jade]

Fletcher’s achievements:

2x Premiership Player
2x All Australian
1x Best and Fairest

Rance’s achievements:

1 Premiership Player
4x All Australian (1x Captain)
1x Best and Fairest

Rance has basically matched Fletcher’s career achievements in half as many games.

*in LOL.

Fletcher was the best and fairest of the best side ever to play the game.

Rance, overrated as he is, isn’t fit to lick his boots.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

i watch 5 or 6 games most weekends without fail whether its live or the replay and have done for a long time, im a footy junkie

thinking rance is amazing has nothing to do with what us richmond supporters have had in the past, what an absolute joke of an argument that is

rance is an out and out superstar and there is no debating it, typical salty essendon supporter

so glad alot of bigfooty arent as ignorant on the matter as they have him 2nd behind scarlett in this poll

You mean the same Bigfooty that has the best small defender of this century by a mile with less than 50% of the vote. Yes Bigfooty posters are so wise

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Robert Flower was a true champion of the game. Mitch Morton wasn’t. It didn’t require finals success to cement Flower’s reputation, and a premiership didn’t make Morton any less spuddy.

Totally. Was a stupid point of argument from Captain_Bender given Bob Skilton has 3 Brownlow medals and in his 237 games played 1 final... A loss.

 

[Nuggets73]

Fletcher was the best and fairest of the best side ever to play the game

Pffftt ... rubbish ... not even close ... not even the best Essendon side of all time!

Your “best side ever” choked more often than not - will always be remembered as underachievers

 

[Captain_Bender]

Totally. Was a stupid point of argument from Captain_Bender given Bob Skilton has 3 Brownlow medals and in his 237 games played 1 final... A loss.

Alright not counting finals wins Rance still is better than Hurley has double the amount of all Australians and has won a B&F which Hurley hasn't and seeing that Rance plays in a superior team him winning a B&F is impressive compared to Hurley who hasn't won one in a inferior team

 

[juss]

Bit of game playing, bit of truth. Martin is the best player in the league based on exposed form.

But ****, I do love me some Joey Daniher. Wouldn't be a single player in the league I'd straight swap him for - even Martin.



Absolutely I am.

But in fairness, I've never been shy in expressing that opinion. Hurley is the best defender in the league.

Love Daniher, all signs point to him becoming a top shelf star, but even you couldnt argue hes achieved much yet and so far he hasnt had a career close to Martin. I mean hell, he has so far only kicked over 50 goals a season once in his career, with a very good yet nothing outlandish 65 goals last year.

There will be a time to go nuts over Joe Daniher, but cool your jets, it's not quite yet on his actual performance, its mostly based on what we expect him to become.

 

[Jade]

There will be a time to go nuts over Joe Daniher, but cool your jets, it's not quite yet on his actual performance, its mostly based on what we expect him to become.

Totally agreed. I'm not in any way suggesting that he's actually better than Martin as a player.

I am saying if you offered a straight swap (Daniher for Martin), I'd decline.

 

[Mningasimisonda]

Geelong seems to have a thing for producing good defenders. We really need to swap notes with a club who knows how to produce good key forwards.

 

[Jade]

Geelong seems to have a thing for producing good defenders. We really need to swap notes with a club who knows how to produce good key forwards.

Yeah it's a funny thing isn't it.

Gary Ablett Sr was probably the last time you had a key forward whom I would genuinely regard as in the top tier of the league - and lets face it, he wasn't really a key forward.

Since then you've had a succession of forwards that have been good, no real stars though.

I'm thinking Mooney, Podsiadly, Hawkins etc etc.

Weird how that happens.

 

[Duskfire]

Yeah it's a funny thing isn't it.

Gary Ablett Sr was probably the last time you had a key forward whom I would genuinely regard as in the top tier of the league - and lets face it, he wasn't really a key forward.

Since then you've had a succession of forwards that have been good, no real stars though.

I'm thinking Mooney, Podsiadly, Hawkins etc etc.

Weird how that happens.

Part of it is that when Geelong were actually getting high draft picks they focused on midfielders and defenders. Which wasn't a bad thing really but still never recruited. Heck out of the last 3 main forwards, Hawkins was father son, Mooney was a trade from North and Pods was mature age recruit

 

[markm106]

Rance is currently the best defender in the game. He is better then Hurley and it has nothing to do with winning finals.

 

[Royce Hafey]

So far Rance is not an offensive weapon.

I'm wary of posting about Richmond players in these dick-measuring threads, but I can't let this astonishing statement go without comment. I thought at first when I read this post that you may have only been referring to goal kicking, but you go on in another to say that he doesn't provide offensive drive out of the backline, which makes me wonder if you're confusing Rance with another player - like Astbury maybe?

 

[Blind Turn]

I'm wary of posting about Richmond players in these dick-measuring threads, but I can't let this astonishing statement go without comment. I thought at first when I read this post that you may have only been referring to goal kicking, but you go on in another to say that he doesn't provide offensive drive out of the backline, which makes me wonder if you're confusing Rance with another player - like Astbury maybe?

No more than any other top level player who gets a hold of the ball regularly in defence. He is not an offensive weapon coming out of the backline though. This is where he is overrated. I’m not saying he doesn’t initiate play out of defence. He’s quite capable there. But he is a long way behind the creativity, drive, and composure that you saw from the likes of Scarlett, Enright, Fletcher, McLeod, Wanganeen, Roos, Birchall, Shaw etc etc.

My opinion on him isn’t set by the way. I re-assess my rating of players constantly to correlate with the thread I created on the Lists forum.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

You are not suggesting with a straight face that James Clement was a better footballer than Corey Enright. Are you Frank?

Clements best was better, was more versatile and he pretty much destroyed everyone he lined up on over a 4 year period, and he retired prematurely, they actually changed the rules of the game because of him, so yeah, i am.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Hurley over Rance? Lolz.

 

[Royce Hafey]

No more than any other player who gets a hold of the ball in defence. He is not an offensive weapon coming out of the backline. This is where he is overrated. I’m not saying he doesn’t initiate play out of defence. He’s quite capable there. But he is a long way behind the creativity, drive, and composure that you saw from the likes of Scarlett, Enright, Fletcher, McLeod, Wanganeen, Roos, Birchall, Shaw etc etc.

My opinion on him isn’t set by the way. I re-assess my rating of players constantly to correlate with the thread I created on the Lists forum.

First point in reply to this is that comparing him to smaller defenders whose main role was to rebound (like McLeod, Shaw etc) is unfair. It would be like saying that Houli is a better player than him because he rebounds more when that's basically Houli's main job description. He can only be meaningfully compared to other KPDs. In that regard you can make the statement that he doesn't provide as much rebound as Scarlett or Fletcher. I might not agree, but I wouldn't have bothered posting to reply if that's what you said as it would have been a pointless Richmond goggles versus Essendon goggles sort of conversation. But you didn't say that. You said he wasn't "an offensive weapon" and he clearly is. One of the delights of watching Rance as a supporter is the way he not only wins the ball but does so often with forward momentum, running forward at full speed and delivering to a player in the clear to set up a scoring chain.

On a separate point which doesn't add anything towards comparing the players but indicates the problems with our perceptions of players abilities, I can remember a match between Richmond and Essendon a few years back. It was after Rance had had his breakout (may even have been his first AA year) and he had a great game with something like 18 kicks, only one of which didn't hit a target, but was out on the full. The commentators went on about how Rance was a good player but had dodgy disposal and should have given it to someone else to kick. It annoyed me at the time as I, as a supporter who followed his career closely, knew that he'd long got over the "Rance moments" that had plagued his early career. Later in the same match, Fletcher, who'd been quiet, also kicked the ball out on the full and all the commentators said was "an uncharacteristic error from Fletcher". Sure enough, last year I noticed when Rance kicked the ball out on the full and they said: "an uncharacteristic error from Rance". Reputation and nostalgia add to the subjectivity of these comparisons and when you throw in team bias these are magnified.

 

[Blind Turn]

First point in reply to this is that comparing him to smaller defenders whose main role was to rebound (like McLeod, Shaw etc) is unfair. It would be like saying that Houli is a better player than him because he rebounds more when that's basically Houli's main job description. He can only be meaningfully compared to other KPDs. In that regard you can make the statement that he doesn't provide as much rebound as Scarlett or Fletcher. I might not agree, but I wouldn't have bothered posting to reply if that's what you said as it would have been a pointless Richmond goggles versus Essendon goggles sort of conversation. But you didn't say that. You said he wasn't "an offensive weapon" and he clearly is. One of the delights of watching Rance as a supporter is the way he not only wins the ball but does so often with forward momentum, running forward at full speed and delivering to a player in the clear to set up a scoring chain.

On a separate point which doesn't add anything towards comparing the players but indicates the problems with our perceptions of players abilities, I can remember a match between Richmond and Essendon a few years back. It was after Rance had had his breakout (may even have been his first AA year) and he had a great game with something like 18 kicks, only one of which didn't hit a target, but was out on the full. The commentators went on about how Rance was a good player but had dodgy disposal and should have given it to someone else to kick. It annoyed me at the time as I, as a supporter who followed his career closely, knew that he'd long got over the "Rance moments" that had plagued his early career. Later in the same match, Fletcher, who'd been quiet, also kicked the ball out on the full and all the commentators said was "an uncharacteristic error from Fletcher". Sure enough, last year I noticed when Rance kicked the ball out on the full and they said: "an uncharacteristic error from Rance". Reputation and nostalgia add to the subjectivity of these comparisons and when you throw in team bias these are magnified.

Yeah, look I understand that you’re smitten with Rance after the premiership. And he is likely going to go up in my estimations before he retires. But he’s not to the level of those I mentioned is all I’m saying. The thing is Fletch, Scarlett and Roos were all at the level of those smaller defenders which is kinda the emphasis I was making. He’s not close to them. But I concede he’s in the best few nullifiers I have seen going back to the days of Doull, Dench and Southby.

 

[Royce Hafey]

Yeah, look I understand that you’re smitten with Rance after the premiership. And he is likely going to go up in my estimations before he retires. But he’s not to the level of those I mentioned is all I’m saying. The thing is Fletch, Scarlett and Roos were all at the level of those smaller defenders which is kinda the emphasis I was making. He’s not close to them. But I concede he’s in the best few nullifiers I have seen going back to the days of Doull, Dench and Southby.

Did you read my post? I didn't argue with your proposition that he was less than those players but with your original proposition that is no offensive threat (which you've just in feect repoeated by describing him as just a nullifier.

So I'll repeat it in another way which I hope makes it clearer. Rance is an offensive threat and your original statement remains bullshit. Is he as much so as the players you mention? To be honest I don't know. I watched all those players play back in the day but I don't trust my opinions and memories because of the biases I mentioned in the second part of my post. You obviously are confident that you aren't subject to such biases and that your memories are detailed and faithful enough to make a comparison. But given that you're just an anonymous bloke on the internet you'll have to forgive me for not taking your word on that. If you were, say, Leigh Matthews, and you weren't so intent on insisting on a point that I know to be false then I might give you more credit.

 

[krisholio14]

Scarlett, Rance, Enright, Glass and Lake for mine.

Few more than handy players missing out, if I had another 5, Leppitsch, Clement, Fletcher, Shaw and S.Fisher.

McLeod and C.Johnson miss out purely for playing a lot of time out of defense.