Best and worst pm/premier???

medusala

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Posts
34,963
Likes
6,233
Location
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Thread starter #1
With a couple of people trying to label Howard as "best ever" I thought a ranking of best and worst would be in order. I'll divide it into conservative and alp to avoid accusations of bias (which will be unsuccessful no doubt). Also will stick to post WWII as would find it hard to pass judgement on those prior (other than Jack Lang who would definitely get a mention).

PM
Best

Conservative
Menzies - steady pair of hands. Helped no doubt by the DLP and communism but still a giant. Helped Australia to avoid the worst excesses of the welfare state found in Europe and NZ. The economy was ok (our living standard in the 50s was 2nd best in the world) even if dependent on raw materials. Little or no debt either public or current account. We even used to have aircraft carriers whilst at the same time having a top rate of tax that applied to only a very small % of the population.

Honourable Mention - Howard. Well he didnt have much competition from the others did he?

Worst
Fraser: shocking effort. Had control of the senate so no excuses. Talked tough but did nothing to revers the nonsense that came under Gough. Who would have thought that a former ACTU boss would have made him look like a socialist?

ALP
Hawke. Slightly controversial given the way Curtin is revered. However war time leaders tend to get lionised slightly and Curtin introduced the welfare state, whilst Hawke was arguably the greatest reforming (in terms of the economy) pm since WWII. Even staunch conservatives would admit part of our economic performance now is due to his early years in office.

Honourable Mention - Curtin.

Worst: Gough then daylight. Tried to do 100 things at once all poorly. Massive increases in spending, govt and current account debt. A few more years of him and the IMF would have been called in. Extremely hard to argue he wasnt Australias worst pm. Even many of his so called triumphs like ending the white Australian policy were due to previous conservative govts.

Premier
Best
Conservative
Joh. Ran a balanced budget for 30 odd years, had no debt yet still managed to have the best health system and roads in the country. First one to deregulate the labour market and got rid of probate. Also helped to get rid of Australias worst ever pm. Helped by gerrymander but that wasnt unique to Queensland and was in fact introduced by the ALP. Sure there was some corruption (as there was in NSW, WA and still is in Vic police allegedly) but doubt that he was personally corrupt as he was well off before entering politics and gave away his entire salary to the church. Was a god botherer but prepared to forgive him for it.

Honourable mention - Kennett - reversed decades of unperformance in relation to NSW. Greiner not far behind for bringing in a system of financial management, budgeting and accountability that nearly all premiers now abide by. Bolte and Playford should get a mention somewhere.

ALP
Best
Jim Bacon. Odd perhaps but then you have to be a miracle worker to breathe confidence into Tasmania and reverse the population decline. All this from Norm Gallaghers former right hand man!!

Honourable mention
Goss/Beattie. Inherited well but havent done anything to stuff it up. Carr too, but he has really let himself down lately.

Worst
Cain/Kirner. Complete and utter shambles. When was the last time 10s of thousands of people marched against a state govt like they did then? Brian Burke a very close second, wasnt he a very naughty lad. Dishonourable mentions to Unsworth, Bannon, Field.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

dan warna

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Posts
20,557
Likes
190
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
#2
Joh the best?

ok if you like police corruption, prostitution on the streets, ministers using standover tactics, protection rackets for rapists, drug dealing from the cops, a government re-elected on 33% of the vote due to a massive gerimander, massive rorting of the taxpayers money, sale of national assets to corrupt business.

Thank goodness the white shoe brigade is long gone.

I hope we never see the like of Johke be peed upon. Him and all his cronies will be in hell, and his personal dog the minister for police and gambling was a servant of the devil of you believe that sort of thing, the bastich was a criminal and deserves to be dead and not soon enough. No doubt a fair few labour MPs from WA in the 80s will be joining them on the corruption waggon, but no one was as decadent as Joh and his scum.

similar but nowhere near to that extent in the last 2 years on Cain Jnrs premiership with some slimey business dealing going on and taxpayers money finding themselves in the pockets of pollies and their stooges, and pretty much the entire second term of kennet was riddled with corruption and kickbacks.

best? hard to say. there are those who are less damaging. the current crop of east coast Labor premiers are running ballanced budgets putting a little more in public hospitals and education and going ok, with out the corporate corrupt excess of the liberals and the massive deficit budgets of the labor party of old, and more centrist govt.

Labor in Tassie is owned by Gunn and they are corrupt as all heck, and the conservatives are no better.

favourite PMs? can't think of any that were too good.

Gough and fraser and one other I can't remember brought democracy to Australia and undid much of the racism of the menzies era, where indiginous australians were treated in a similar way to indiginious africans under the apartheid regime in SOuth Africa.

Also Gough extricated us from that stupid racist mess that the US had created in Vietnam, and left the Americans to stew in their own mess.

Early Hawke was good, but he got carried away with his own excesses. Good economic reforms dragging us out of the morose of the 70s.

Curtin the war time PM was a champion, and led Australia to a victory without destroying the budget and wasting troops in mindless extremism, while progressing us to victory.

Pig Iron Bob backed the wrong horse in the 30s but like a good dog followed the UK into the right side when appropriate.

No doubt the diggers appreciated his dealings with imperial Japan when laying the burma railway.

not a lot of good on either side of the tracks in labor or Liberal unless your a stooge of either party.

Pity Janine Haines passed away, one of the few decent politicians of calibre we've had
 

Leaping Lindner

Premiership Player
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Posts
3,912
Likes
68
Location
St Kilda
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
North Adelaide
#3
Best Labor Premier.
Dunstan then daylight followed by daylight.

Menzies. Um ?? Big minus in my book would be sending young men (not old enough to vote) off to die in a pointless war.

Bjelke Petersen. Some corruption??? Ever heard of a little thing called the Fitzgerald Enquiry?It was in all the papers for a while there.

Does Bolte gets an honourable mention for executing a man for political expediency?
 

medusala

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Posts
34,963
Likes
6,233
Location
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Thread starter #4
dan warna said:
Joh the best?

ok if you like police corruption, prostitution on the streets, ministers using standover tactics, protection rackets for rapists, drug dealing from the cops, a government re-elected on 33% of the vote due to a massive gerimander, massive rorting of the taxpayers money, sale of national assets to corrupt business.

similar but nowhere near to that extent in the last 2 years on Cain Jnrs premiership with some slimey business dealing going on and taxpayers money finding themselves in the pockets of pollies and their stooges, and pretty much the entire second term of kennet was riddled with corruption and kickbacks.


Also Gough extricated us from that stupid racist mess that the US had created in Vietnam, and left the Americans to stew in their own mess.
I did mention the corruption there. NSW was bad too. They didnt call Wran "nifty Nev" for nothing. And the chap before him (Askin sp?) was reknowned for dodginess.

Cain might have been useless but I have never heard anyone accuse him of being corrupt or dishonest in any way.

Re Gough, Australia's withdrawal was virtually finished by the time he got to power. There was something like 200 personnel in total left. Another myth re his govt along with disbanding White Australia.

BTW Melbourne still has prostitutes on the street and police corruption and drug dealing by police and Bracks is still selling off transport assets, rorting money eg look at SGV. Not sure about protecting rapists though.
 

medusala

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Posts
34,963
Likes
6,233
Location
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Thread starter #5
Leaping Lindner said:
Does Bolte gets an honourable mention for executing a man for political expediency?
him and Playford more out of longevity than anything else. Bolte supposedly was haunted by that decision. Could be wrong but didnt hangings end because of that?
 

dan warna

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Posts
20,557
Likes
190
Location
melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
#6
medusala said:
I did mention the corruption there. NSW was bad too. They didnt call Wran "nifty Nev" for nothing. And the chap before him (Askin sp?) was reknowned for dodginess.

Cain might have been useless but I have never heard anyone accuse him of being corrupt or dishonest in any way.

Re Gough, Australia's withdrawal was virtually finished by the time he got to power. There was something like 200 personnel in total left. Another myth re his govt along with disbanding White Australia.

BTW Melbourne still has prostitutes on the street and police corruption and drug dealing by police and Bracks is still selling off transport assets, rorting money eg look at SGV. Not sure about protecting rapists though.
I never said Cain was corrupt but some of his minister were, I can't remember his name but the minister for railways bought a crap piece of bush land for 10k and then had vic rail buy it off his company for 1.2 million or similar (Blacksmith? undersmith? something like that), cain sacked him but he was still around causing trouble in the early 90s and his son was involved in messy business too.

Cain basically was a good and decent chap in charge of some real scum. Cain himself was pretty much beyond reproach, one of the more decent pollies going around, but geez some of the labour heavies were crooks plus, even labour stooges would admit that some of their bully boys were crooks.

I don't think bracks has sold of any transport assets, the train/tram network was sold, vic rail was sold, and only a completely new road is being sold to a private developer hardly the hand over tactics where we saw footscray road, alexandra parade and tullamarine freeway handed over for basically the bolte bridge and domain submarine pass.

I do agree there has been some rorting with the bracks govt and it is disgraceful but not nearly as corrupt as joh, kennett or the last two three years of kirner/cain where the premiers office was that in name only.

I can't think of too many govts that didn't have dodgy behaviour, but Johs govt and successive labour and liberal govts in Tassie are about the worst in the country. Gunns have a order form for poisoning the environment, their method of clearfelling and poisoning is the worst of any logging company in Australia, what goes on in tassie is a disgrace, by comparison the loggers in East Victoria and border NSW/Vic are fairly environmentally responsible.

wrong about Gough re: vietnam, we were still supporting the US policy despite there being limited Aussie forces, and he abolished conscription.

he did get a lot wrong, but he also got a lot right, he was a visionary if divisive PM.
 

- PC -

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Posts
30,268
Likes
23
Location
Where No Birds Fly
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide/Sturt/Wingfield
#8
M29 said:
Yeah Kennett was alright. Providing you didn't attend high school whilst he was in power.

For mine best PM...With Menzies dominating post WW2 politics till a succession of cronies had a go/ and Australia on a fairly level slow playing field one could say he steered a safe course. Then a choice between Hawke and Howard...Howard has been controversial and has not felt any compunction about lying and Hawke was charismatic but new what was needed to make Australia right...

Best State Premier..been a SA boy have to go with Australias first Gay Premier..Don " I am not gay I like the colour pink'' Dunstan and then I feel Jeff Kennett has to get a mention...anyone who can turn a whole state against him and still continue to win elections must be doing something right... sometimes you need a lot of pain for a lot of pleasure. No Victorian can really say they arent better from the reforms Kennett introduced..(as a whole people, dont mention individuals)
 

Freo Big Fella

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 30, 2003
Posts
10,731
Likes
5,401
Location
The great wide north
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
WA, Australia
#9
PM
--
ALP Best: Bob Hawke
John Curtin
ALP Worst: James Scullin

Lib Best: Menzies
Deakin

Lib Worst: Holt
McMahon

Premier
--

ALP Best: Dunstan
Beattie/Bacon

ALP Worst: Bracks


Lib best: Jeff Kennett

Worst: Bielke Petersen. Nothing more than a Racist god-bothering nazi, who was prepared to rort the system because he wasn't getting his own way.
 

Contra Mundum

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Posts
21,910
Likes
8,700
Location
North Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
NMFC
#11
I have been accused of leftwing self love on this forum so I will put up people other than the usual suspects:
Ignored Premiers who were good:

Sir Rupert Hamer - a true compassionate conservative

Sir David Brand - universally loved by West Aussies

John Tonkin - its something about train driving Labor men who make it to the top -universally respected as a man of great vision and integrity

No one has nominated Chiff either (could'nt resist) - and for all the blue bloods out there his career was much more than the attempt to nationalise the banks!
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Bomaz_Magic

Club Legend
Joined
Jun 1, 2004
Posts
1,031
Likes
0
Location
the lodge
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Essendon Bombers
#12
The best Lib Pm was deakin, best ALP in order Curtin, Whitlam and Chiffley. Menzies only won due to fear, if you have a look at the stats he struggled with inflation and culd not manage the economy for peanuts could Pig Iron Bob.
 

medusala

Hall of Famer
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Posts
34,963
Likes
6,233
Location
Loftus Road
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Thread starter #13
Bomaz_Magic said:
The best Lib Pm was deakin, best ALP in order Curtin, Whitlam and Chiffley. Menzies only won due to fear, if you have a look at the stats he struggled with inflation and culd not manage the economy for peanuts could Pig Iron Bob.
and Whitlam could?
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Posts
2,397
Likes
0
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Everton FC, Parra Eels
#14
Bob Carr's main failing, but unfortunately one by which the NSW public will not judge him kindly with, is undoubtedly the deterioration of our rail system over the last five years. I'm not sure if his other failings could be as bad as this one, and it really crept in his second term in office and just got worst in his third.
 

Tim56

Premiership Player
Joined
Aug 30, 2003
Posts
3,195
Likes
6
Location
On the fine line between
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Melbourne
#15
Bomaz_Magic said:
The best Lib Pm was deakin, best ALP in order Curtin, Whitlam and Chiffley. Menzies only won due to fear, if you have a look at the stats he struggled with inflation and culd not manage the economy for peanuts could Pig Iron Bob.
Actually, under Menzies, the Australian economy enjoyed high growth, low unemployment, and low inflation. Care to provide some stats to prove otherwise?
 

hoss

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
May 28, 2004
Posts
7,141
Likes
2,953
Location
South
AFL Club
Fremantle
#16
Best PM - Curtin ......Menzies.

Premier - Beattie or Dunstan.......Court sen.

Worst PM - MacMahon....then Holt.

Worst Premier - Joh.

To suggest that JWH has been a good PM is laughable. His only success is longevity due to fortunate economic circumstances. He is devoid of any social values, and thrives on creating division, dishonesty and manipulation of media. He has set Australia back decades.
 

Freo Big Fella

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 30, 2003
Posts
10,731
Likes
5,401
Location
The great wide north
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
WA, Australia
#18
bunsen burner said:
To suggest he's not is laughable. Extremely laughable.
Apart from the excellent economic conditions, which have been as a result of Costello's superior economic management more than Howards(we all know how well he did when he was Treasurer), what has Howard achieved to be called the greatest PM?
 

hoss

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
May 28, 2004
Posts
7,141
Likes
2,953
Location
South
AFL Club
Fremantle
#19
bunsen burner said:
In both social justice and international relations. He has made our nation a laughing stock on the world stage.

JWH = good PM. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :D Extremely laughable and not even worth any serious consideration.
 

bunsen burner

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 12, 2001
Posts
32,664
Likes
1,427
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
West Coast
#20
Freo Big Fella said:
what has Howard achieved to be called the greatest PM?
Wasn't aware that I've ever said he was our greatest PM. You can't even read sentence and interpret it properly so I don't know how you think you can interpret a political landscape and come out with a decent view.
 

bunsen burner

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 12, 2001
Posts
32,664
Likes
1,427
Location
Sydney
AFL Club
West Coast
#21
hoss said:
In both social justice and international relations. He has made our nation a laughing stock on the world stage.
I see. So your opinion is be all, end all? Riiight. Sorry to burst your bubble, but many don't share your view.

JWH = good PM. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :D Extremely laughable and not even worth any serious consideration.
8+ years in the job and has led Australia through prosperous times could not be thought of anything less than good by default. You're delusional and not doing your credibility any good.
 

Freo Big Fella

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 30, 2003
Posts
10,731
Likes
5,401
Location
The great wide north
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
WA, Australia
#22
bunsen burner said:
Wasn't aware that I've ever said he was our greatest PM. You can't even read sentence and interpret it properly so I don't know how you think you can interpret a political landscape and come out with a decent view.

Fantastic, play the man and not the ball as usual. I will give this one to you though as I clearly misinterpreted your post. Keep swinging :rolleyes: .
 

Freo Big Fella

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 30, 2003
Posts
10,731
Likes
5,401
Location
The great wide north
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
WA, Australia
#24
bunsen burner said:
What do you expect when you misquote?
For it to be pointed out. No need to make a completely unrelated judgment on my ability to form ideas about the political landscape.

As far as Howard goes, has he been a good PM? Overall yes, but mainly due to a united cabinet effort as opposed to providing outstanding leadership. Economically he's done a brilliant hob, but socially and internationally he's taken a backstep.
 

hoss

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
May 28, 2004
Posts
7,141
Likes
2,953
Location
South
AFL Club
Fremantle
#25
Howard's success is in his political longevity and the way he has been able to keep his team disciplined, when clearly many don't like him.

He has won his elections due mainly to very poor opposition. Apart from one election campaign (GST), he has won government with very little forward thinking, vision, improvement in infrastructure or long term wealth creation. His campaigns generally focused on attacking a weak opposition. That the ALP in all its disunity and turmoil could gets approx half the two-party preferred vote over the past few elections is scary and doesn't spell "good PM' to me. He is hardly a great statesman or leader. He is boring, devoid of personality, dishonest and generally not a nice person.

His govt taxes us more than any other, and not only did he stuff up the introduction of the GST (weren't all other indirect taxes meant to go with its introduction), he has blown the perfect opportunity this year to implement major cuts in income tax. Very rarely does such an time come about, when due to a thriving economy and budget surplus, major tax relief can happen. Instead, Howard blew about $13 billion on superficial, short-lived welfare promises to buy an election, that he was never going to lose. What a waste! Why not give incentive for Australians to work hard? Fiscal responsibility - my arse!

He has disenchanted half of the nation with his views on reconciliation, detention for refugees, war on Iraq etc. He has a habit of bailing friends (or brothers) out of financial problems and seems to follow no code of conduct when dealing with crooked pollie mates such as Reith.

How in hell does this make him a good Prime Minister? I'm baffled. :confused:
 
Top Bottom