Moved Thread Best ever Indigenous players ranked.(Poll added)

[masai]

What?, that Fyfe, Goodes comparison was about Stephen Michael the rest doesnt make sense.

My apologies, stuffed up my reply, ………………. bbbb keyboard.

As we are talking about players from different eras ( physicality rules !!!! ), TI was a 100% tough guy who ran straight through people and didn't take a backward step when he got it back. Yep, played in a similar style to Goodes, but TI was a shirtfronter, Goodes was a sli...r.

 

[Socrates2]

My apologies, stuffed up my reply, ………………. bbbb keyboard.

As we are talking about players from different eras ( physicality rules !!!! ), TI was a 100% tough guy who ran straight through people and didn't take a backward step when he got it back. Yep, played in a similar style to Goodes, but TI was a shirtfronter, Goodes was a sli...r.

Yes Stephen Michael looked a player, it's a pity he didnt play in Melbourne though.Brian Peake didn't look that good over here but I'm sure Michael had the attributes to be a star here.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Great list. I’d have Davey ahead of Harbrow albeit with a hint of bias

Davey revolutionised the role of defensive forward. For that alone he deserves a mention although he was also supremely skilled.

I strongly considered Davey, and you're right he could easily fit into that group ..

 

[Sttew]

We know exactly what he did TO the best the vfl had to offer every time there was a state of origin.

I think we have a reasonable idea of what he would do to the regular guys out there.

No you don’t. One off carnival games are not the same as week in week out in a H&A season. You may be right. But Polly made the transition and was an instant success. No what ifs......

 

[kranky al]

No you don’t. One off carnival games are not the same as week in week out in a H&A season. You may be right. But Polly made the transition and was an instant success. No what ifs......

He dominated week in week out in the weekly comp too.

I hated / loved him...

 

[RUNVS]

I have trouble ranking players from different eras mostly because amazing players from a long time ago would not be amazing players in the modern era. Farmer is a great example as while he may have been amazing as ruckman back in the 50's he was 191cm tall, and by modern standards he could not be a ruckman. Now that is not to say he could not be great in another position, but he would be a useless ruckman in 2018.

 

[EddieExpert]

Murice Rioli was pretty much the perfect footballer.

 

[Chumly]

Goodes is a gun.

Seriously want a player of his type to be playing for the Eagles.

 

[Chubberson]

I'll give it a go (argue against Goodes being #1) by comparing him to Franklin. Your rationale for Goodes #1 was:

2 premierships. Franklin has 2 also but this is a team award so let's disregard this as a point of comparison.
2 Brownlows. Impressive but Franklin has MORE Brownlow votes than Goodes despite:

• Goodes playing nearly 100 more games
• Goodes spending time in a position far more conducive to Brownlow votes
• Goodes (with Judd) being famous for receiving some generous voting at times (and Franklin the opposite)

Yet Franklin has more votes than Goodes, is still going and has had to get them playing solely as a key forward where voting is currently very midfield focussed.
464 goals. Franklin will kick 1000+ (1 of 5 ever) in one of the lowest individual goal kicking eras of all time. Obviously Franklin has played all his career as a key forward whilst Goodes has spent chunks in the midfield and ruck. Despite that, however, Goodes averaged 17 possessions over his career and Franklin 16. Franklin also lays more tackles, more marks, etc.

On top of that, Franklin is an 8 time All Australian which is the equal most of all time (Goodes has 4, the latter 2 close calls) and 4 time Coleman Medal winner (equal with Lockett, Hudson, etc - only 3 ever with more) and is still going.

If anything, I think Goodes is slightly overrated by some, including you. Don't get me wrong, he was a fantastic player who had some brilliant seasons (most notably 2006) and he could absolutely dominate a game and play virtually every position to a very high standard. However, for large chunks of his very long career he would play a handful of blinders a year and 'just' be a good contributor most other weeks rather than being dominant week in week out (ala Ablett, Dangerfield, etc.)

It is also perceived that he was dominant in all positions which for me is not quite true. He won a BL as a ruck but was essentially a tall mid who contested the ruck rather than being a dominant ruckman. I mean, he never once had a 30 hit out game in his career. IN fact he only managed 20 hit outs a very small number of times. It was his midfield/ground level work that stood out for someone his height but compared to right now, he is shorter than Bontempelli, same height as Fyfe and fair bit shorter than Cripps.

Similarly, Goodes played a number of seasons as a key forward. Whilst he would still roam at times (as plenty of KPF's now do anyway) he never managed a season of 45+ goals. Obviously a good key forward but not a dominant one.

Over the duration, Goodes averaged 17 possessions and a goal a game over his career.

I think the reason he gets overrated a little by some is that his best was amazing (but didn't produce at the same regularity as some others), he could do all things/play everywhere very well (bud didn't absolutely dominate a position), he was the 'face' of Sydney and Aboriginal Australia for a long time (very heavily marketed) and because of his Brownlows (which whilst great seasons were two of the lowest vote years in modern history and he received some generous voting at times).

Brilliant player but not top 5 of the last 30? odd years as you suggested IMO. Top 30 - 50 sure.

Pretty good argument for sure. I think that in the 05' 06 Sydney teams they had a team of real battlers and West Coast were just star studded. Adam Goodes really took Sydney to the next level I think. Disposal numbers are a hard judge because from 2001 to 2018 the disposal count has increased by nearly 39 percent, marks by roughly 20 and tackles have doubled. All these numbers have changed with the evolution of the game. I'm not saying it's an invalid argument but I think that the success he was able to have in such a variety of positions elevates him for me. Both legends of the game and I would have both in the top 10 players I've seen over the last 30 years. I still have Goodes top 5 too!

 

[Mockcockpit]

No you don’t. One off carnival games are not the same as week in week out in a H&A season. You may be right. But Polly made the transition and was an instant success. No what ifs......

Does the fact that both Dockers and Eagles fans are in furious agreement on Stephen Michael's greatness not make any impression on you at all? We can't even agree which way is up but we all agree on this point.

 

[Socrates2]

It's a taller s

I have trouble ranking players from different eras mostly because amazing players from a long time ago would not be amazing players in the modern era. Farmer is a great example as while he may have been amazing as ruckman back in the 50's he was 191cm tall, and by modern standards he could not be a ruckman. Now that is not to say he could not be great in another position, but he would be a useless ruckman in 2018.

It's a taller generation now, if Polly Farmer was a 26yo now he would be 198cm due to the better pre -natal nutrition ect.Back then people only ate vegetables on the full moon and orange juice on birthdays.

 

[Topkent]

Seeing guys at the end of this list makes me feel a bit sad for Chris Yarran. He had all the talent in the world.

Harley Bennell for mine, might have had as much talent as anyone I've ever seen when he started at GC.

Buddy is ahead

Buddy is better than Goodesy I reckon.Buddy is in the top 10 of all time easily.No one else can has consistently kicked 60m drop punt goals like he does.Whenever he plays,he is always the most dangerous man on the field.Goodes was an exceptional player but his traits were endurance and longevity.

That's not true. Maybe no one else in this last decade but Fev, Roccas, Brown, Cummings, Lockett, Graham etc from the last 20 yeats all could easily.

 

[Sttew]

Does the fact that both Dockers and Eagles fans are in furious agreement on Stephen Michael's greatness not make any impression on you at all? We can't even agree which way is up but we all agree on this point.

Yes. And I can tell you how disappointing it was that Michael never tried his luck at Geelong. He was signed up for several years and Geelong tried everything.

I still rate Polly No.1 because no matter which way you look at it he dominated in the WAFL and VFL and left an indelible mark.

“Farmer is the game’s greatest ruckman, probably the greatest Aboriginal player, possibly the game’s greatest player, arguably the greatest team-maker given he piloted Geelong and WAFL clubs East Perth and West Perth to premierships, and the first player to use handball as a weapon.”
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-06-01/how-graham-polly-farmer-changed-the-game

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Murice Rioli was pretty much the perfect footballer.

How many B&Fs and Brownlows did he win?


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[Judd2Sewell]

Franklin #1
Then the rest

 

[Sttew]

Franklin #1
Then the rest

LOL

We need a poll. Then again maybe not

 

[Socrates2]

How many B&Fs and Brownlows did he win?


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Two best and fairests with Richmond , 3 All Australians, 3 x b.o.g. in a grand final, one in a losing GF

Club

• WAFL premiership: 1980
• 2x Richmond best and fairest: 1982-1983
• Norm Smith Medal: 1982
• 2x Simpson Medal (for Grand Final): 1980-1981

Representative

• National Football Carnival Championship (Div 1): 1979
• National Football Carnival Championship (Div 2): 1988
• 3x All-Australian team: 1983, 1986, 1988
• Simpson Medal: 1983
• Western Australia captain: 1987
• Northern Territory captain: 1988

Sources: AFL Tables, AustralianFootball.com

 

[Socrates2]

LOL

We need a poll. Then again maybe not

Good idea! I've added a poll for the two best players, I made it 2, as most will vote Polly number 1.

 

[Mockcockpit]

Yes. And I can tell you how disappointing it was that Michael never tried his luck at Geelong. He was signed up for several years and Geelong tried everything.

I still rate Polly No.1 because no matter which way you look at it he dominated in the WAFL and VFL and left an indelible mark.

“Farmer is the game’s greatest ruckman, probably the greatest Aboriginal player, possibly the game’s greatest player, arguably the greatest team-maker given he piloted Geelong and WAFL clubs East Perth and West Perth to premierships, and the first player to use handball as a weapon.”
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-06-01/how-graham-polly-farmer-changed-the-game

His best season was 1981, 37 votes in the Sandover with 9 b.o.g. You guys lost the prelim that year right? What might have been, eh?

 

[jatz14]

Yes Stephen Michael looked a player, it's a pity he didnt play in Melbourne though.Brian Peake didn't look that good over here but I'm sure Michael had the attributes to be a star here.

Peake wasn't a shadow of the player Michael was, never understood why he was so pumped up. Peake was a solidly built midfield seagull.

 

[B4Bear]

With my biases on display, I still rate Barry Cable as the best of all time, and better than Wayne Carey.

 

[Socrates2]

Peake wasn't a shadow of the player Michael was, never understood why he was so pumped up. Peake was a solidly built midfield seagull.

Re Brian Peake :I nearly choked on my pastie when I saw he was All Australian captain - twice.

 

[Snooza 100]

Michael Mitchell stiff

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[Post padding]

A guy that was a super super player was michael graham for sturt in the SANFL 1960's and 1970's..although i am guessing the greatest players are only AFL / VFL players for this discussion

The Flash

 

[JD888]

Best ever indiginous players ranked.My top 20.
1/Polly Farmer
2/ Maurice Rioli
3/ Lance Franklin
4/Peter Matera
5/ Adam Goodes
6/Andrew McLeod
7/Gavin Wanganeen
8/Cyril Rioli
9/Barry Cable
10/Eddie Betts
11/Doug Nicholls
12/ Syd Jackson
13/Jimmy Krakouer
14/ Michael Long
15/ Shaun Burgoyne
16/Byron Pickett
17/ David Wirrpanda
18/ Stephen Michael
19/Nicky Winmar
20/ Daryl White

If you could time travel this lineup to 2018 all still in their prime could they beat say West Coast's GF team this year? Or are there too many mids and small forwards?