Best from the 2007 draft

[eth-dog]

He is not better than Dangerfield or Rance (maybe Walker too), the rest are up for debate.

He's definitely better than Cotchin.

Hooker and Taylor are as good as Rance, and Rioli has been at the elite level for longer.

 

[Amigo]

Hooker and Taylor are as good as Rance, and Rioli has been at the elite level for longer.

Not really. Neither are nearly as athletic as Rance is, nor do they offer the same drive from defence.

Rioli is, and always had been overrated. Yes he's been a quality player for longer, but he's never had a year as good as Wood's last two. Not saying Wood is clearly ahead, but it's debatable.

 

[eth-dog]

Not really. Neither are nearly as athletic as Rance is, nor do they offer the same drive from defence.

Rioli is, and always had been overrated. Yes he's been a quality player for longer, but he's never had a year as good as Wood's last two. Not saying Wood is clearly ahead, but it's debatable.

You're kidding right? From 2008 onwards Taylor's drive from defence was extremely important for Geelong. Plus Hooker had the most intercept possessions and intercept marks from 2013-2015, so I'm not sure how you can say they don't offer the same drive from defence.

His year last year was as good as Wood's. He's elite and would be ahead.

 

[Amigo]

You're kidding right? From 2008 onwards Taylor's drive from defence was extremely important for Geelong. Plus Hooker had the most intercept possessions and intercept marks from 2013-2015, so I'm not sure how you can say they don't offer the same drive from defence.

His year last year was as good as Wood's. He's elite and would be ahead.

Probably because you don't know what drive is.

Rioli has never kicked more than 50 goals in a year (which Betts and even Milne had already done at the same age), it was only last year he finished with an average of more than 2 goals a game for the first time. His disposal averages have never been high, yet he's heralded (mostly by commentators) as one of the best players in the competition, let alone one of the best small forwards. Overrated, and doesn't even come close to matching the influence Wood has on the doggies defence; being able to shut down 3 players at once, play on all sizes, being the best interceptor in the competition and providing plenty of run out of the backline. The only thing Rioli has over Wood is that he's been doing it for longer.

 

[eth-dog]

Probably because you don't know what drive is.

Rioli has never kicked more than 50 goals in a year (which Betts and even Milne had already done at the same age), it was only last year he finished with an average of more than 2 goals a game for the first time. His disposal averages have never been high, yet he's heralded (mostly by commentators) as one of the best players in the competition, let alone one of the best small forwards. Overrated, and doesn't even come close to matching the influence Wood has on the doggies defence; being able to shut down 3 players at once, play on all sizes, being the best interceptor in the competition and providing plenty of run out of the backline. The only thing Rioli has over Wood is that he's been doing it for longer.

Drive from defence: Rebound. How is stopping opposition attack and launching your own not drive from defence?

Rioli is a half forward that is a star of the game. Sometimes stats don't paint the full story.

 

[Bobby_]

Not really. Neither are nearly as athletic as Rance is, nor do they offer the same drive from defence.

Rioli is, and always had been overrated. Yes he's been a quality player for longer, but he's never had a year as good as Wood's last two. Not saying Wood is clearly ahead, but it's debatable.

Rance took years to become an elite footballer.
Taylor was elite in his second season and has been that way until very recently where he has now regressed and Rance has overtaken him as a defender.

And in regards to Rioli, he's actually the complete footballer now whereas a few years ago, he was in and out of the game and not quite as consistent as what he is today.
You could have made the case that he's an overrated player back then, but not today. If he can now start kicking 55-60 goals per season, he'll really be talked about as one of the games very best players.

 

[Amigo]

Drive from defence: Rebound. How is stopping opposition attack and launching your own not drive from defence?

Rioli is a half forward that is a star of the game. Sometimes stats don't paint the full story.

and Rance easily does that better than both the two you mentioned in that regard, especially Hooker.

Rance took years to become an elite footballer.
Taylor was elite in his second season and has been that way until very recently where he has now regressed and Rance has overtaken him as a defender.

And in regards to Rioli, he's actually the complete footballer now whereas a few years ago, he was in and out of the game and not quite as consistent as what he is today.
You could have made the case that he's an overrated player back then, but not today. If he can now start kicking 55-60 goals per season, he'll really be talked about as one of the games very best players.

I'll take your point on Taylor but I still think Rance's best is better. He pretty much single handedly held Richmond's horrible defence together to the point of making the finals 3 times.

As for Rioli being a "complete footballer", the word complete implies a lot of things. What makes him so "complete"?

Career best season last year and he averaged 2.2 goals and 13.7 disposals. Hardly fills the criteria of "complete".

I'd take Easton Wood.

 

[eth-dog]

and Rance easily does that better than both the two you mentioned in that regard, especially Hooker.


I'll take your point on Taylor but I still think Rance's best is better.

As for Rioli being a "complete footballer", the word complete implies a lot of things. What makes him so "complete"?

Career best season last year and he averaged 2.2 goals and 13.7 disposals. Hardly fills the criteria of "complete".

I'd take Easton Wood.

So Hooker being the #1 in intercept marks and possessions from 2013-15 means Rance is better?

 

[Amigo]

So Hooker being the #1 in intercept marks and possessions from 2013-15 means Rance is better?

Yep, because intercept marks aren't everything.

 

[eth-dog]

Yep, because intercept marks aren't everything.

It's pretty important. If he was "easily" better, he'd be comfortably better. The pair are both elite, and very close together, but to say one is "easily" better than the other is disrespectful and blatantly incorrect.

 

[Amigo]

It's pretty important. If he was "easily" better, he'd be comfortably better. The pair are both elite, and very close together, but to say one is "easily" better than the other is disrespectful and blatantly incorrect.

Cale Hooker averages a fair bit more intercept marks than Matthew Scarlett. Must be better, right?

If he was "easily" better, he'd be comfortably better.

Really? I never would've guessed.

 

[Bobby_]

and Rance easily does that better than both the two you mentioned in that regard, especially Hooker.


I'll take your point on Taylor but I still think Rance's best is better. He pretty much single handedly held Richmond's horrible defence together to the point of making the finals 3 times.

As for Rioli being a "complete footballer", the word complete implies a lot of things. What makes him so "complete"?

Career best season last year and he averaged 2.2 goals and 13.7 disposals. Hardly fills the criteria of "complete".

I'd take Easton Wood.

I agree that Alex Rance is now a better defender than what Taylor ever was. Taylor's marking is still ahead of Rance but he's certainly not anywhere near as strong through the core, nor is he as agile and athletic as what Rance is.
Rance is that good that some opposition coaches look to take him away from the play by any means that they can as he reads the game that bloody well.

Rioli is a lot more than the numbers you described though.
Harassment and perceived pressure, coupled with the fact he makes virtually every single possession count and he's arguably one of the top 3 small forwards in the competition.
I would say Rioli, Wingard and Betts are the best three smalls. You can make a case for Steve Johnson even though he stands 6ft'3 and then you have the next tier of small forwards like Walters, Breust, Motlop (who is the most inconsistent of them all).

 

[Lethality]

Rioli has never kicked more than 50 goals in a year (which Betts and even Milne had already done at the same age),

Betts and Milne are forward pocket players, Rioli plays half-forward. If you just want to go by goal averages then you're missing most of the picture.

 

[Amigo]

Betts and Milne are forward pocket players, Rioli plays half-forward. If you just want to go by goal averages then you're missing most of the picture.

You're right, which is why he should be averaging more disposals than forward pocket players, but he doesn't.

I agree that Alex Rance is now a better defender than what Taylor ever was. Taylor's marking is still ahead of Rance but he's certainly not anywhere near as strong through the core, nor is he as agile and athletic as what Rance is.
Rance is that good that some opposition coaches look to take him away from the play by any means that they can as he reads the game that bloody well.

Rioli is a lot more than the numbers you described though.
Harassment and perceived pressure, coupled with the fact he makes virtually every single possession count and he's arguably one of the top 3 small forwards in the competition.
I would say Rioli, Wingard and Betts are the best three smalls. You can make a case for Steve Johnson even though he stands 6ft'3 and then you have the next tier of small forwards like Walters, Breust, Motlop (who is the most inconsistent of them all).

Pressure smeassure. Are you going to tell me Max Rooke should've gone top 3 for his elite pressure?

Anyway, the whole reason Rioli was brought up was because someone suggested he's clearly ahead of Easton Wood, and I said it was debatable, cue to arguments. If you asked every club in the competition who they'd take, I wouldn't be surprised if most of them said Wood because he's a perfect hybrid defender.

 

[Lethality]

You're right, which is why he should be averaging more disposals than forward pocket players, but he doesn't. .

Yes he does.

Milne: 11.87
Betts: 12.18
Rioli: 15.3

More tackles, clearances, contested posessions, goal assists, as well.

 

[Bobby_]

Pressure smeassure. Are you going to tell me Max Rooke should've gone top 3 for his elite pressure?

No. Max Rooke was a very ordinary player who had a limited repertoire of skills. It was his courage and hardness at the contest which saw him remain in the starting 22 every week.
If he wasn't so kamikaze in his style and approach towards the opposition, he would have been one of those reserves players who star at that level but fail to make any impact at the top level.

Rioli is one of the most creative footballers in the competition.
He's a unique athlete in that regard.

 

[Amigo]

Yes he does.

Milne: 11.87
Betts: 12.18
Rioli: 15.3

More tackles, clearances, contested posessions, goal assists, as well.

A staggering 3 more touches. I'm shocked.

What are you arguing here? I'm just saying I'd take Wood.

 

[Lethality]

A staggering 3 more touches. I'm shocked.

He has more of just about everything except goals, so his numbers are better than those forward pockets you mentioned.

 

[Amigo]

He has more of just about everything except goals, so his numbers are better than those forward pockets you mentioned.

So goals don't count now? How convenient.

I'd still take Betts.

 

[Lethality]

So goals don't count now? How convenient.

I'd still take Betts.

Of course they count, but all the other stats combined are in favour of Rioli, so that's at least a credible choice on performance.

 

[Rioli magic]

doesn't even come close to matching the influence Wood has on the doggies defence; being able to shut down 3 players at once, play on all sizes, being the best interceptor in the competition and providing plenty of run out of the backline.

I'm guessing this was the vinegar stroke?

I think it's fair to say Easton Wood is underrated and probably doesn't get the plaudits he deserves, but if you think he can shut down 3 players at once you are delusional.

 

[timtamWB]

I'm guessing this was the vinegar stroke?

I think it's fair to say Easton Wood is underrated and probably doesn't get the plaudits he deserves, but if you think he can shut down 3 players at once you are delusional.

I'm assuming that he means something along the lines of there can be 3 or 4 players in the forward line and he can intercept the ball coming in without them touching it.

Cause otherwise he's on some good s**t and I want some.

 

[Amigo]

I'm guessing this was the vinegar stroke?

I think it's fair to say Easton Wood is underrated and probably doesn't get the plaudits he deserves, but if you think he can shut down 3 players at once you are delusional.

Try watching the games.

 

[Rioli magic]

I'm assuming that he means something along the lines of there can be 3 or 4 players in the forward line and he can intercept the ball coming in without them touching it.

Cause otherwise he's on some good s**t and I want some.

Not sure, he seams quite enamoured with Wood's abilitiis. Even if you are right, it is an interesting argument to use against someone like Rioli of all players...Wood is better than Rioli because he sometimes wins the ball when outnumbered by the opposition, as opposed to Rioli who.....plays the game like Nathan Lonie?

Try watching the games.

I prefer AFL Live 2 on PS3, much more realistic.

 

[Amigo]

Not sure, he seams quite enamoured with Wood's abilitiis. Even if you are right, it is an interesting argument to use against someone like Rioli of all players...Wood is better than Rioli because he sometimes wins the ball when outnumbered by the opposition, as opposed to Rioli who.....plays the game like Nathan Lonie?



I prefer AFL Live 2 on PS3, much more realistic.

Fair enough, I can see you lack the brains to have a proper discussion. Fine by me.