Best Incoming Lions Trade Ever

[dlanod]

I never really understood why Fevola was so bad. He was the reining Coleman medalist iirc. We traded a lot to get him and it was obviously a risk, but l suppose the thing that made it really bad was we didn't put someting in the contract that helps us in case he did something bad e.g. gambling etc.

I think the key part was Fev was basically being thrown out the door by Carlton and yet we paid market rate for him and took on his full contract.

The original offer (Rischitelli and Bradshaw) would've worked out pretty well for us in hindsight, but Rischitelli refusing to sign a contract extension sunk that. After that died we effectively gave up more (a first round pick and a recent first round selection) despite only bidding against ourselves.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I think the key part was Fev was basically being thrown out the door by Carlton and yet we paid market rate for him and took on his full contract.

The original offer (Rischitelli and Bradshaw) would've worked out pretty well for us in hindsight, but Rischitelli refusing to sign a contract extension sunk that. After that died we effectively gave up more (a first round pick and a recent first round selection) despite only bidding against ourselves.

Bradshaw played less games for the Swans than Fev played for us. I have always thought the Fev Equation has to have 'minus three years that the Swans gave to Bradshaw" in it.

Not keeping Bradshaw was a good move. Harsh i know and possibly it was destructive of club spirit, but we needed to swop Bradshaw for someone else and it might have been a masterstroke.

 

[martinson]

I think the key part was Fev was basically being thrown out the door by Carlton and yet we paid market rate for him and took on his full contract.

The original offer (Rischitelli and Bradshaw) would've worked out pretty well for us in hindsight, but Rischitelli refusing to sign a contract extension sunk that. After that died we effectively gave up more (a first round pick and a recent first round selection) despite only bidding against ourselves.

It was a hasty ill advised trade because we paid Fev what he was getting when noone else wanted him . He was sacked. By a club that needed someone like him. Wonder why.

And it was a substantial contributing factor to the culture that saw great young players leave us in droves.

Fev was the line in the sand that put us in a hole for almost a decade.

Vossy completely misread where we were at and didn't have a cool head advising him . He was a good coach and would no doubt be a better one now.

Of course hindsight is never wrong but there were plenty of us who didn't like it at the time.

Fagan and Noble seem to look at the person first . Which really helps you if they can play footy.

 

[golions]

It was a hasty ill advised trade because we paid Fev what he was getting when noone else wanted him . He was sacked. By a club that needed someone like him. Wonder why.

And it was a substantial contributing factor to the culture that saw great young players leave us in droves.

Fev was the line in the sand that put us in a hole for almost a decade.

Vossy completely misread where we were at and didn't have a cool head advising him . He was a good coach and would no doubt be a better one now.

Of course hindsight is never wrong but there were plenty of us who didn't like it at the time.

Fagan and Noble seem to look at the person first . Which really helps you if they can play footy.

Yes agreed.

We have to remember that the success of 01-03 was built around, culture, spirit and loyalty - including the playing group taking pay cuts to stay together as a group and be under the salary cap.

Voss of all people should have been aware of that. But by trying to trade Bradshaw (a long time loyal servant of the club) - and Rischitelli (an up and coming player) for Fevola - he essentially destroyed that culture even before Fev got to us.

In some ways - Voss died by the sword too - just when he had the playing group on his side the team was on the up - he was told his contract would not be renewed - mainly because the club was chasing Paul Roos who said he wouldn't have any talks with the club unless he knew fore the coaching position would be vacant the following year. Roos really hung out to dry because he obviously had no intentions of signing with us.

The whole Voss era should be a reminder to us that while the Club is greater than any individual, the Club should also pay respects to loyalty of individuals - while true loyalty cannot be bought, it should also not be sold either

It's heartwarming to see men of character including Fagan, Noble, Andrews, Berry and McCluggage leading this club now

 

[Scubaveg]

Martin Pike. End.


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[ZoBlitz]

Martin Pike. End.


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Wasn't a trade, we picked him up in the draft.

 

[Scubaveg]

Wasn't a trade, we picked him up in the draft.

True. It like that he sleeps with the lights off the most.


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[Sinjin Smith]

I think the key part was Fev was basically being thrown out the door by Carlton and yet we paid market rate for him and took on his full contract.

The original offer (Rischitelli and Bradshaw) would've worked out pretty well for us in hindsight, but Rischitelli refusing to sign a contract extension sunk that. After that died we effectively gave up more (a first round pick and a recent first round selection) despite only bidding against ourselves.

Its not like Carlton made the most of it either, Henderson was handy for a few years then sulked his way out (hasn't worked for him at Geelong either) and Kane Lucas did * all.

 

[Back2Back2Back]

I never really understood why Fevola was so bad. He was the reining Coleman medalist iirc. We traded a lot to get him and it was obviously a risk, but l suppose the thing that made it really bad was we didn't put someting in the contract that helps us in case he did something bad e.g. gambling etc.

On paper with his goal kicking, and indeed in the first few games he played with us (the Carlton and Collingwood games in particular) showed it was going to be a masterstroke. He and Brown were going to be the unstoppable and unpredictable guns in the forward 50. However it was at too great a cost. We burned Bradshaw and Rischitelli, and payed too much for Fev. Additionally he still had a lot of off field demons that he either didn't fully disclose or that he was trying to fight his way through and we couldn't do enough, and ultimately that was his unraveling for us once he got injured and had too much idle time.

As far as good trades go, we've had so many in recent times that it's so hard to figure out what is the best best. I think Lyons has got to be up there, purely because we got him for literally nothing. Why on earth Gold Coast would throw a player of that calibre away I just still can't figure out, and every time he kicks a goal against them I like to think Dew cops a nice reminder slap across the back of the head.

 

[Dalions]

On paper with his goal kicking, and indeed in the first few games he played with us (the Carlton and Collingwood games in particular) showed it was going to be a masterstroke. He and Brown were going to be the unstoppable and unpredictable guns in the forward 50. However it was at too great a cost. We burned Bradshaw and Rischitelli, and payed too much for Fev. Additionally he still had a lot of off field demons that he either didn't fully disclose or that he was trying to fight his way through and we couldn't do enough, and ultimately that was his unraveling for us once he got injured and had too much idle time.

As far as good trades go, we've had so many in recent times that it's so hard to figure out what is the best best. I think Lyons has got to be up there, purely because we got him for literally nothing. Why on earth Gold Coast would throw a player of that calibre away I just still can't figure out, and every time he kicks a goal against them I like to think Dew cops a nice reminder slap across the back of the head.

I remember his first game at the Gabba.
His leading patterns were a step above anything I had ever seen before.
Just had an uncanny knack of finding space.
I think he had 11 shots on goal in that first game? Only kicked 4 from memory and 1 or 2 out in the full.

 

[mpal6]

Yes agreed.

We have to remember that the success of 01-03 was built around, culture, spirit and loyalty - including the playing group taking pay cuts to stay together as a group and be under the salary cap.

Voss of all people should have been aware of that. But by trying to trade Bradshaw (a long time loyal servant of the club) - and Rischitelli (an up and coming player) for Fevola - he essentially destroyed that culture even before Fev got to us.

In some ways - Voss died by the sword too - just when he had the playing group on his side the team was on the up - he was told his contract would not be renewed - mainly because the club was chasing Paul Roos who said he wouldn't have any talks with the club unless he knew fore the coaching position would be vacant the following year. Roos really hung out to dry because he obviously had no intentions of signing with us.

The whole Voss era should be a reminder to us that while the Club is greater than any individual, the Club should also pay respects to loyalty of individuals - while true loyalty cannot be bought, it should also not be sold either

It's heartwarming to see men of character including Fagan, Noble, Andrews, Berry and McCluggage leading this club now

Just to balance the argument on the bolded bit - I remember reading at that time, Bradshaw has always been a pain to deal with in terms of contract renewal throughout his time with us. Rischitelli was already lined up to go to Gold coast. Voss was trying to cash out at the right time and get a Coleman medal winner as part of the deal, too bad he didn't look closely at where Fev was in Carlton's pecking order.

 

[Bjorn Again]

The Beams to Collingwood trade. We shed a ticking time bomb for two first round picks, and as a bonus it was the scum who we ripped off. It was a masterstroke by Noble & friends, especially since we were in a bad negotiating position to begin with. We needed another first-round pick to get Neale, so Collingwood were trying to force us to take less than our demanded price. Making that side trade with Gold Coast swung the leverage back to our side. And it made up for any disappointment that we may have had for missing out on De Goey with the first Beams trade.

Neale and Cameron are the best incoming players we've received, but we also paid a fair price for both of them at the time, they've just gone on to outperform it.

I see this a lot and don't get it. Crows supporters are still adamant we paid overs for Charlie. Most footy fans value players based off their current output. Crows supporters seem to think we just got lucky Charlie improved. Nothing could be further from the truth.

A huge amount of effort is done behind the scenes to determine how well players will fit into our structure. Often players are traded because they are just unhappy where they are and are under-performing. Given the right environment and structure, players who show glimpses can thrive and perform way better in a different club. Charlie always showed mad pace at the Crows but was not damaging with it. Our recruiters obviously saw that and could see his elite potential which just needed a few tweaks. We paid for what we could see in him, not what he was doing. And we were right. The armchair Crows critics can sit at the bottom of the table where they are now and crap on about how useless Nobes is because he gives up draft picks so easily. His trades basically got them to the Grand Final. It is no coincidence our fortunes have reversed since Nobes came up here. I would really like to see people stop blaming Nobes for not knowing how trade values work, at least on this board. Proof is in the pudding. Not blaming you Johnny. This has been coming for some time.

 

[luthor]

Would anyone want to give Charlie up for Pick 12 in the next draft?

As far as Noble goes, it always strikes me as incongruous the way Geelong have always drawn praIse for paying what is necessary to get players they want.

Yet for some reason, Nobes seems to have somehow acquired a reputation for paying "overs" in his acquisition of players.

The Crows and their supporters are the least qualified to be pontificating about "overs" after dropping their duds for Bryce Gibbs who can't even get a game.

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[mpal6]

Would anyone want to give Charlie up for Pick 12 in the next draft?

As far as Noble goes, it always strikes me as incongruous the way Geelong have always drawn praIse for paying what is necessary to get players they want.

Yet for some reason, Nobes seems to have somehow acquired a reputation for paying "overs" in his acquisition of players.

The Crows and their supporters are the least qualified to be pontificating about "overs" after dropping their duds for Bryce Gibbs who can't even get a game.

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Yep it's a stigma that crows have created which has stuck with Noble all through this time. May be he paid overs when he was at Adelaide, may be not. But from our list perspective, he has struck the right balance and has been getting it "mostly" right so far.

Cameron, Neale, Adams, Greenwood would've been nicer but CEY looks not too bad - the list goes on. Jamie Elliott came pretty close too. Steal Papley somehow and we're set for next few years .

 

[Dalions]

Justin Leppitsch for Chris Fagan, hands down, best trade ever!
Sorry Leppa.

 

[luthor]

Justin Leppitsch for Chris Fagan, hands down, best trade ever!
Sorry Leppa.

To be fair, Leppa inherited a list that wasn't in great shape after the departure of Voss. The GH5 episode depleted our stocks even further .

Leppa was and is still held in high regard back at Richmond and considering the success they have had since 2017, he must be doing a fair bit right to be on their coaching staff.

Perhaps his biggest mistake at the Lions was an apparent failure to adjust the game/style plan in the face of some serious beltings.

He seemed almost pig-headed in his fath in his game "plan",teaching an attacking style which it seemed the players at his disposal either didn't have the ability to execute and/or didn't understand.

Repeated 60 to 100 point thrashings just weren't going to cut it

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[Dalions]

Perhaps his biggest mistake at the Lions was an apparent failure to adjust the game/style plan in the face of some serious beltings.

He seemed almost pig-headed in his fath in his game "plan",teaching an attacking style which it seemed the players at his disposal either didn't have the ability to execute and/or didn't understand.

Don’t get me wrong I was a Leppa fan, right to the end until his position become untenable.

But in relation to your point above, I actually think it was quite the opposite.

In his final year when things begun to go pear shape, the game plan was quite noticeably different week to week. To the point where I don’t think the players knew whether they were coming or going, but invariably ended up just chasing tail.

in his first couple of years I could see sign of improvement, but in the final year, particularly the second half of that year he had lost the players and there was no coming back from that.

I agree that he didn’t really have the cattle initially.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I see this a lot and don't get it. Crows supporters are still adamant we paid overs for Charlie. Most footy fans value players based off their current output. Crows supporters seem to think we just got lucky Charlie improved. Nothing could be further from the truth.

We did pay overs based on what his current output was to that point. My opinion is it was a fair price when factoring in some improvement, but he ended up improving more than predicted. But nobody can perfectly predict improvement or decline, otherwise clubs wouldn't ever have bad contracts on their books.

Fagan and Noble have been great at identifying talent that can potentially soar, but they're not gods, they won't get everything right. For example, Adams has continued his run of injuries, and when he's been fit he hasn't been a vast improvement on his play at Bulldogs. He certainly has time to turn it around but he hasn't justified the investment as yet.

 

[trikster]

To be fair, Leppa inherited a list that wasn't in great shape after the departure of Voss. The GH5 episode depleted our stocks even further .

And also a football department that was so under resourced it was a joke. I still remember an interview where he described asking Kerr (can't recall his first name, went to Essendon from memory) for a copy of the clubs list strategy and the guy handed him an A4 page with a print out of the current playing list.

 

[luthor]

And also a football department that was so under resourced it was a joke. I still remember an interview where he described asking Kerr (can't recall his first name, went to Essendon from memory) for a copy of the clubs list strategy and the guy handed him an A4 page with a print out of the current playing list.

Let's face it.

Neither Voss or Leppitsch were given the resources or support to give them a genuine chance of succeeding.

To the contrary, it's almost as though they were set up to fail.

I can't help but feel the guys in charge of the club in that era thought that the romance of being former playing greats would be enough to turn them into competent, if not great coaches.

As we know now, it just doesn't work that way

 

[Hellobill]

It was a hasty ill advised trade because we paid Fev what he was getting when noone else wanted him . He was sacked. By a club that needed someone like him. Wonder why.

And it was a substantial contributing factor to the culture that saw great young players leave us in droves.

Fev was the line in the sand that put us in a hole for almost a decade.

Vossy completely misread where we were at and didn't have a cool head advising him . He was a good coach and would no doubt be a better one now.

Of course hindsight is never wrong but there were plenty of us who didn't like it at the time.

Fagan and Noble seem to look at the person first . Which really helps you if they can play footy.

Can't agree with everything above but do agree that many thought it a bad deal at the time simply because the fev train was already off the rails

A few points though:

1, Collingwood were keen to get him, Carlton fearing supporter backlash refused to trade him to pies and offered to keep him but Fev was sulking about being put up for trade so wanted out.

2, Personally i don't think Vossy misread the team situation, we won our 1st four games and until Fev was injured we were looking top 4 . We beat the future premiers The Pies in a game Fev was unstoppable in second half and we looked an absolute quality side , Black was still a gun. What Vossy misread was how troubled Fev was and once he was injured his toxic behavior ruined his future performances and badly impacted the team culture ( Nearly as badly as Rocky's behavior)

3, The worst part of the deal was contract had no get out clauses, first year was something like $110k and then hugely backended for the 2 years after he was sacked !

Th players traded never amounted to much after that but it showed that the club had little loyalty and would move on loyal servants for a shiny new thing ad that no doubt impacted the culture and changed the landscape.

 

[Bjorn Again]

We did pay overs based on what his current output was to that point. My opinion is it was a fair price when factoring in some improvement, but he ended up improving more than predicted. But nobody can perfectly predict improvement or decline, otherwise clubs wouldn't ever have bad contracts on their books.

Fagan and Noble have been great at identifying talent that can potentially soar, but they're not gods, they won't get everything right. For example, Adams has continued his run of injuries, and when he's been fit he hasn't been a vast improvement on his play at Bulldogs. He certainly has time to turn it around but he hasn't justified the investment as yet.

More than predicted by armchair critics by you but not by the Lions recruiting staff obviously.
Stick to your day job.

 

[dlanod]

More than predicted by armchair critics by you but not by the Lions recruiting staff obviously.
Stick to your day job.

What got up your nose that warranted the second part? Overreaction much?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

More than predicted by armchair critics by you but not by the Lions recruiting staff obviously.
Stick to your day job.

I'm sorry to hear you're not happy with other people having opinions and discussing them on a forum. Hope your day gets better.

 

[T Rick]

Surely, Lachie must now be right up there as one of our best incoming trades...hard to beat!