Best midfield ever?

[Mr Meow]

Flags not necessary to be a great midfield.

Tuddenham Price Greening Waters 2x Richardsons Britt etc, with Len Thompson in ruck is as good in its day as any, all time.

Ditto Geelong under Blight: Bairstow (superb ruckrover) G Hocking (like Selwood, except better in every way) and Couch who is criminally under rated. The brilliance of those three equalled the 5 flag Hawks best in the centre square. Fellas like Lindner and Bews and Yeates were on the fringe so it was deep and loaded with skill and hardness, maybe lacking a true stopper.

The quality of the top 3 was so high they could spare Ablett to play FF. That's worth thinking about.

Pies were cursed, and Geelong had a short defence and injury prone forwards. The midfield carried those sides

It was a superb Geelong midfield.

They did let themselves down in grand finals though (relative to their immense performances otherwise), there's no avoiding that. When your midfield don't fire to their full potential, it has a domino effect with the rest of the team.

Selwood was the opposite. Brilliant grand finals as a youngster, in his prime and in his retirement season. When the rest of the team didn't turn up in other losing finals, he always did. He was a lone hand in several.

 

[Cyclops]

It was a superb Geelong midfield.

They did let themselves down in grand finals though (relative to their immense performances otherwise), there's no avoiding that. When your midfield don't fire to their full potential, it has a domino effect with the rest of the team.

Selwood was the opposite. Brilliant grand finals as a youngster, in his prime and in his retirement season. When the rest of the team didn't turn up in other losing finals, he always did. He was a lone hand in several.

1989 GF is the best GF, some say the best game ever played. Certainly true of the later GFs. That midfield lifted the Cats to 3 more GFs after that. Great coach and in contention as the GOAT midfield, especially if it's the 3 in the square.

Couch shone, conditions and style suited him. Bairstow less so, WA open style dry ground playerbless efective in a shitfight (he was brilliant in many finals and a H&A champion). Hocking played half the game with his face caved in and was still somewhat effective.

Sorry to pick on Selwood, people say he is actually good. I haven't seen a lot of it, and comments by Scott "best Cat ever" rankle. I'm not entirely rational on the subject because of the ducking.

 

[Mr Meow]

1989 GF is the best GF, some say the best game ever played. Certainly true of the later GFs. That midfield lifted the Cats to 3 more GFs after that. Great coach and in contention as the GOAT midfield, especially if it's the 3 in the square.

Couch shone, conditions and style suited him. Bairstow less so, WA open style dry ground playerbless efective in a shitfight (he was brilliant in many finals and a H&A champion). Hocking played half the game with his face caved in and was still somewhat effective.

Sorry to pick on Selwood, people say he is actually good. I haven't seen a lot of it, and comments by Scott "best Cat ever" rankle. I'm not entirely rational on the subject because of the ducking.

I already said they (and Ablett plus a few back flankers) carried us to grand finals. My point about grand finals - be it bad luck or otherwise - does still stand. I suspect they were exhausted by then from having to do too much. In fact you could say this a little bit with Dangerfield in a couple of finals series. He'd have a clear BOG in one game but then be all over the shop in the next one.

Selwood was our most reliable big game player from about 2010 through to 2022. He was also brilliant in his first 3 seasons 2007-2009. It's a fair old record. Some of his 2.5 free kicks a game were from shrugging tackles though. I guess that invalidates everything.

 

[PhatBoy]

1989 GF is the best GF, some say the best game ever played. Certainly true of the later GFs. That midfield lifted the Cats to 3 more GFs after that. Great coach and in contention as the GOAT midfield, especially if it's the 3 in the square.

Couch shone, conditions and style suited him. Bairstow less so, WA open style dry ground playerbless efective in a shitfight (he was brilliant in many finals and a H&A champion). Hocking played half the game with his face caved in and was still somewhat effective.

Sorry to pick on Selwood, people say he is actually good. I haven't seen a lot of it, and comments by Scott "best Cat ever" rankle. I'm not entirely rational on the subject because of the ducking.

From basically 2010-2022 if you wanted something done around the ball from a Geelong perspective, you gave the responsibility to Selwood. Yes another bloke came long halfway through that tenure who was pretty good too but Joel just got it done. A kick doesn’t have to look pretty to be good, and a clearance doesn’t have to be done by a player running like Usain Bolt to be effective.

 

[Cyclops]

I already said they (and Ablett plus a few back flankers) carried us to grand finals. My point about grand finals - be it bad luck or otherwise - does still stand. I suspect they were exhausted by then from having to do too much. In fact you could say this a little bit with Dangerfield in a couple of finals series. He'd have a clear BOG in one game but then be all over the shop in the next one.

Selwood was our most reliable big game player from about 2010 through to 2022. He was also brilliant in his first 3 seasons 2007-2009. It's a fair old record. Some of his 2.5 free kicks a game were from shrugging tackles though. I guess that invalidates everything.

We're in agreement, and yes I know I'm irrational.

Now I didn't see them all, but I feel Bartel might have been good in big games in the second half of his career, which might be the first half of Selwoods?

I know the Hawks feared Bartel more than any other, more than their bitter Essendon and North rivals from the 80s and 70s.

Banter and silliness aside I stand by Buddha, brilliant rover and ranks with Goggin as Geelongs best rover ever. Passed every imaginable test aside from brainlet "hurrdurr how menny flags did hee wun?" Suffers from Dunstall syndrome of haveing an ugly face and unsympathetic personality.

 

[Andyy]

With some amazing midfields around atm and developing ones as well, who do you rate as the best midfield of all time.

The first few that pop into my mind are
West Coast 2000's - Kerr Cousins Judd Embley and they what they have that alot of others don't is a star ruckman Cox.
Brisbane 2000's- Voss Black Akermanis Lappin Power
Melbourne- Now Gawn Petracca Oliver Viney

I'd replace Dees with the Cats of 07-09 and comfortably say that's the best 3 midfields I've seen in my 3+ decades alive.

To be brutally honest...you simply don't need a great ruckman to be a great midfield. You just need a competitive ruckman. Look at the Tiger dynasty 17-20, as much as I like Nankervis, he's an under-sized battler who competes well.


EDIT:

I'd also consider making a 16-team and 18-team distinction. I've consistently maintained that I think the standard of AFL players has deteriorated since introducing GCS and GWS because I don't think there's enough elite players for 18 teams and the general standard of football was better when we just had 16 teams.

Richmond's midfield of Cotchin, Martin, Prestia, Edwards, Lambert etc at it's peak was quite decent for an 18-team era.

 

[PhatBoy]

I'd replace Dees with the Cats of 07-09 and comfortably say that's the best 3 midfields I've seen in my 3+ decades alive.

To be brutally honest...you simply don't need a great ruckman to be a great midfield. You just need a competitive ruckman. Look at the Tiger dynasty 17-20, as much as I like Nankervis, he's an under-sized battler who competes well.


EDIT:

I'd also consider making a 16-team and 18-team distinction. I've consistently maintained that I think the standard of AFL players has deteriorated since introducing GCS and GWS because I don't think there's enough elite players for 18 teams and the general standard of football was better when we just had 16 teams.

Richmond's midfield of Cotchin, Martin, Prestia, Edwards, Lambert etc at it's peak was quite decent for an 18-team era.

While he’s obviously a step down from Gawn and Cox no argument there at all, it’s not as though Ottens was a mediocre ruckman anyway. He was huge whenever he was fit especially at the business end

 

[Andyy]

While he’s obviously a step down from Gawn and Cox no argument there at all, it’s not as though Ottens was a mediocre ruckman anyway. He was huge whenever he was fit especially at the business end

Oh man, Ottens was my boy back in the day. I was the perfect age to watch him and Richo.

Was very sad when he left!

 

[Lingsface]

Dockers in 5 years may enter the conversation.

 

[PhatBoy]

Oh man, Ottens was my boy back in the day. I was the perfect age to watch him and Richo.

Was very sad when he left!

Among some others - obviously Danger and Cameron - the smartest trade we have ever ended up doing in terms of consequence. Who knows we may have ended up with some silverware anyway but he and Ablett won us that nail biter prelim in 2007 and he was just massive pretty much every finals series and was a rock whenever he was available.

 

[NetworkNerd]

I always liked West Coast. Lots of players to run through it (Judd, Cousins, Kerr, Embley, Fletcher, Selwood) plus an all time great ruck in Dean Cox

Dean Cox

Age

44

Ht

203cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.0

1star

 

[Andyy]

Among some others - obviously Danger and Cameron - the smartest trade we have ever ended up doing in terms of consequence. Who knows we may have ended up with some silverware anyway but he and Ablett won us that nail biter prelim in 2007 and he was just massive pretty much every finals series and was a rock whenever he was available.

Yeah you made out like bandits in hindsight!

So did we with Deledio to GWS for Caddy, Prestia for P7, Nank for Pbasicallynada

 

[PhatBoy]

Yeah you made out like bandits in hindsight!

So did we with Deledio to GWS for Caddy, Prestia for P7, Nank for Pbasicallynada

100 per cent

 

[M Malice]

 

[Lingsface]

St Kilda 05-07 were pretty special.

Robert Harvey, Lenny Hayes

Lenny Hayes

Age

46

Ht

186cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.5

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

11.0

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

5.0

5star

CL

5.2

5star

No current season stats available

D

9.2

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

0.4

3star

, Luke Ball, Nick Dal Santo

Nick Dal Santo

Age

42

Ht

185cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.9

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

9.9

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

3.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

, Leigh Montagna

Leigh Montagna

Age

42

Ht

178cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.9

5star

K

14.8

5star

HB

9.0

5star

M

4.7

4star

T

4.0

5star

MG

482.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

5.0

1star

K

3.8

2star

HB

1.2

2star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.4

4star

, Steven Baker and Brendon Goddard,

People are talking about 34 year olds now having an impact, Harvey 05 QF- 31 disposals 3 goals.

 

[Cyclops]

St Kilda 05-07 were pretty special.

Robert Harvey, Lenny Hayes, Luke Ball, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna, Steven Baker and Brendon Goddard,

People are talking about 34 year olds now having an impact, Harvey 05 QF- 31 disposals 3 goals.

Big game players too, Goddard almost Dusty tier for becoming a diamond under pressure.

This shouldn't be forgotten, the best sides in any given year may not even make the Grand Final.

 

[gandaal]

West Coast: Judd, Cousins, Kerr, Cox

vs

Lions: Voss, Akermanis, Black, Lappin, Power

Take your pick because both were great.

 

[Rabish Binney]

Has to be the Lions during their reign (2000-2005).

IMHO those premiership sides were the best ever.

 

[Seeds]

I am pretty sure he won one in midfield that is not in the mix here...

Relevance though? We are talking about which list was better. You dont disregard competition wide awards won by players at other clubs when determining how good the player is.

Plus i would count leigh matthews medals ahead of brownlows. Ablett has like 5 of them with 3 at the cats. Brisbane players have 2 (with one only a tie)

 

[Seeds]

Has to be the Lions during their reign (2000-2005).

IMHO those premiership sides were the best ever.

Yep they were so dominant they never once finished top of the ladder. In one of their flag years they only won 14 games in the home and away.

But lucky the actual best team in the comp choked twice agsinst collingwood giving brisbane an easy ride to two premierships.