Best Position

[Fred Ziffel]

We are as one on that point MOO.

I will not be at Karl's funeral.

 

[Moo]

Agree on Nick - what is Ed like....we have a crap load of rookie spots.

I'd love to see Hutchings on the list too

 

[theGav56]

I mentioned a possible different role for Deboer because of a new focus on our stoppages with Mark Stone.

Another player who may be marked for a new role is Nick Lower who I regard as the closest player to Deboer.
They both strike me as being ideal for that blocking and muscling around packs.
Nick Lower just covers so much ground and seems to have absolutely no trouble at being where the ball is.

Very interesting to see the impact Stone has. And you are spot on that we will see some reshaping of the team from his impact.

Re your comments on the forward line, and Mayne and deBoer leading away from the corridor... unless they find some scoreboard impact, I think the opposition would be happy with that, zone of, and double-team Pavlich.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Ed Lower was Rookied by North in 2005 . He didn't play in 2011.

At 24 and 186 cm midfielder I think we have that covered.

As far as Hutchings is concerned I am immediately negative on him because a W.A Journalist rates him.

 

[dominguez]

Ballantyne
Midfield or Forward

Definately forward.

Broughton
Midfield or Back

HBF.

Hill
Wing or Back

Wing.

Fyfe
On the Ball or Forward

Onball/wing.

Suban
Wing or Back

BP.

De Boer
Defensive Forward or Tagger

Defensive forward.

Jack Anthony
Forward or Back

WAFL. I still have Bradley and Clarke ahead of him and the coaching staff will probably rank Johhnson ahead of him too so hard to see him slotting into the forward line and needs an injury to Grover/McPharlin/Silvagni to play back.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Very interesting to see the impact Stone has. And you are spot on that we will see some reshaping of the team from his impact.

Re your comments on the forward line, and Mayne and deBoer leading away from the corridor... unless they find some scoreboard impact, I think the opposition would be happy with that, zone of, and double-team Pavlich.

I think , exactly the opposite.

Fyfe and Mayne leading away from the corridor would draw their opponent away from Pavlich rather than to him where they can double up and block.

Fyfe and Mayne are too dangerous to be allowed to lead unopposed.
I think they're the perfect foil.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Anthony

WAFL. I still have Bradley and Clarke ahead of him and the coaching staff will probably rank Johhnson ahead of him too so hard to see him slotting into the forward line and needs an injury to Grover/McPharlin/Silvagni to play back.

If Grover plays 22 games this year it would mean we are in deep shizen.
I see Groves having a specific role in specific games this year. This is his Swansong and 10 to 12 games would see it out IMO.

I can't see Kep being a best 22 either.

 

[bigpav]

Ballantyne - forward pocket, he will be a gun forward within the next 2 years.

Broughton Too good a contested mark and reader of an oppositions attacking play to be 'wasted' in the midfield imo. Leave him down back, we need the footy smarts down there to setup play from opposition turn overs.


Hill I still like Hill on a wing, having our best midfield back next year should help him out.

Fyfe - CHF - this guy could be an absolute gun CHF, endurance, pace and awesome mark

Suban - midfield for sure - could become a Luke Hodge

De Boer - midfield tagger

Jack Anthony - backline where he played as a youngster - replacement for Groves.

 

[johnnomac]

Ballantyne definitely should be in the pocket next to Jack and Josh Mellington really impressed me last year. He gets the other forward Pocket because of his strength and aggression. He displayed strong marking last year and is a good size as a counter to Balla's gnome like height.

From one newbie to another - great post. My first post was about Mellington's first game in 2011, so I was stoked to see you rating him in your post.
I think that JA is being a bit hard done by some posters here. He played 4 games for the Dockers in 2011. Playing forward in the first Derby and against Hawthorn he was totally starved for supply - can't blame him for that. He was reasonably handy down back at the end of the season.
Reading the posts in this thread has me really excited about how 2012 is shaping up!

 

[Proud Bogan]

I think , exactly the opposite.

Fyfe and Mayne leading away from the corridor would draw their opponent away from Pavlich rather than to him where they can double up and block.

Fyfe and Mayne are too dangerous to be allowed to lead unopposed.
I think they're the perfect foil.

Fyfe as leading option is a mistake imo.

Give the kid his head and let him roam free like Goodes and the player he emulates, Hird.

I realise that this doesn't fit with the "old" RL gameplan, but I think that he may surprise a few with his choices and strategy.

 

[Clay Davis]

Definately forward.






HBF.





Wing.






Onball/wing.







BP.






Defensive forward.

Pretty unimaginative. For a few of those we might as well have kept Harvey. I expect more from Suban and De Boer especially.

 

[theGav56]

I think , exactly the opposite.

Fyfe and Mayne leading away from the corridor would draw their opponent away from Pavlich rather than to him where they can double up and block.

Fyfe and Mayne are too dangerous to be allowed to lead unopposed.
I think they're the perfect foil.

I don't think Mayne leading to the flanks would have any defender or coach in the afl losing any sleep. They'd concede it, and wait for the shanked kick. And they would probably see Fyfe playing as a forward to attract defenders away from Pavlich as a win too. The only way to stop Pavlich being double-teamed is to develop more reliable goal-scoring options which become genuine targets in their own right.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

When I said Mayne and Fyfe leading to the Flanks I really meant lead away from Pavlich.

I don't see them as being a decoy as such which is what I think people are suggesting.

They are too dangerous to be ignored and will be followed closely by their immediate opponent. As I said earlier Chopper has to start delivering goals or he's out of the forward line altogether.

Having said that there is nothing wrong with a fully functional forward line having Pavlich being the decoy leading opponents away from others if he is being double teamed.

Think back to the semi final against Hawks last year where Hawthorn even went as far as 4 players going to Pav at the same time.

If we have the right Forward structure with real talented goal scorers there , I don't care who sacrifices their game as a decoy if it results in goals.

 

[prattsta]

I don't think Mayne leading to the flanks would have any defender or coach in the afl losing any sleep. They'd concede it, and wait for the shanked kick. And they would probably see Fyfe playing as a forward to attract defenders away from Pavlich as a win too. The only way to stop Pavlich being double-teamed is to develop more reliable goal-scoring options which become genuine targets in their own right.

If Mayne was leading up the flanks - much like he did when he first arrived at the club - and his opponent zoned off he would end up with 47 uncontested marks, 32 handball receives and a heart attack prior to quarter time. His hard, fast, repeat leads were just about the best thing he had going for him up until Harvey decided he was a FF.

There are a lot of reasons we were so inept coming out of defense in 2011, Mayne being stuck deep in the forward line was one of major ones though.

 

[Ysaye]

If Mayne was leading up the flanks - much like he did when he first arrived at the club - and his opponent zoned off he would end up with 47 uncontested marks, 32 handball receives and a heart attack prior to quarter time. His hard, fast, repeat leads were just about the best thing he had going for him up until Harvey decided he was a FF.

There are a lot of reasons we were so inept coming out of defense in 2011, Mayne being stuck deep in the forward line was one of major ones though.

I agree Prattsta - Mayne leading to the flanks is important, and he is capable of doing it too. I still think you have to think of Mayne like Hamill in is later years with Gerhig and Riewoldt - it is got to be putting pressure on when you don't have the ball, but getting it is there quickly in the other, and running your opponent of his feet.

 

[theGav56]

If Mayne was leading up the flanks - much like he did when he first arrived at the club - and his opponent zoned off he would end up with 47 uncontested marks, 32 handball receives and a heart attack prior to quarter time. Yep, and he would have kicked 0 goals 3 points and 2 OOB's if he plays like he did last season His hard, fast, repeat leads were just about the best thing he had going for him up until Harvey decided he was a FF.

There are a lot of reasons we were so inept coming out of defense in 2011, Mayne being stuck deep in the forward line was one of major ones though.

Whatever. Until we get a range of forwards and midfielders becoming scoring options Pavlich will be targeted. And at the moment Mayne has minimal scoreboard impact. I think he is a better player than what we saw last year, but from last years performance Mayne is really only a borderline selection.

 

[Clay Davis]

If Mayne is borderline then so is all but six players.

The ol' attract players away from Pav argument. Never tire of that one.

 

[theGav56]

If Mayne is borderline then so is all but six players.

The ol' attract players away from Pav argument. Never tire of that one.

Oh ya, whatever opinion suits at the time. I am suggesting he had a poor season and needs to hit the scoreboard, and you say;

I'd drop Mayne. Doesn't have the bottle

Where's Ballantyne's four quarters? Hill's? Mayne's? How come Mayne was great on Friday but has been terrible in a number of other games? Most people think Mayne has had a poor year, but he's leading our goal kicking. What does this say?

I'd suggest he gets hit in the head more often. Makes him more accurate.

He's not having his best season, but he isn't alone there.

I don't think that matters at this stage. No one is regularly clunking marks in our forward 50, and those that do are missing easy shots (Mayne).

The only shining light is Kepler Bradley.

I would suggest that he needs a run through the middle, because he has no confidence in taking the shot.

 

[Clay Davis]

Not sure what those quotes are meant to show other than back up what I said. You getting senile or just going troppo up there in Bali?

As everyone well knows, I even made similar assessments about our B&F. Mayne being a borderline selection is a ridiculous proposition.

 

[theGav56]

Not sure what those quotes are meant to show other than back up what I said. You getting senile or just going troppo up there in Bali?

As everyone well knows, I even made similar assessments about our B&F.

Probably doing both of those things in a brilliant display of multi-tasking. But if he can't kick goals, can't put in 4 quarters and you think he should be played out of position and/or dropped, then how do you not have him as borderline based on last season?

I think he will relish Lyon's coaching and be a much better player. Looking forward to it.

 

[Clay Davis]

Probably doing both of those things in a brilliant display of multi-tasking. But if he can't kick goals, can't put in 4 quarters and you think he should be played out of position and/or dropped, then how do you not have him as borderline based on last season?

I think he will relish Lyon's coaching and be a much better player. Looking forward to it.

A number of players needed to be dropped last year and weren't. Hill and Johnson had awful runs of form, meanwhile Duffield and Crowley were dropped but got lucky breaks after terrible footy most weeks. That said, at top form almost all of those players are best 22.

Mayne is a limited player, but if he is played within those limitations he is a highly effective contributor, and best 22.

 

[theGav56]

A number of players needed to be dropped last year and weren't. Hill and Johnson had awful runs of form, meanwhile Duffield and Crowley were dropped but got lucky breaks after terrible footy most weeks. That said, at top form almost all of those players are best 22.

Mayne is a limited player, but if he is played within those limitations* he is a highly effective contributor, and best 22.

And if they can't get back to somewhere approaching that form will/should become borderline.

* So you are blaming Mayne's form on the coaching?

 

[Fred Ziffel]

As bad as our injury situation was last year, I believe it went much deeper than that.

If we had so many players out any one time, consistently, then it is fair to assume that some players were on the field playing injured.

I definitely feel Chris Mayne was one such player and, given that , I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and attribute his poor conversion rate to being less than fully fit.

The same can be said of Hill, and Pavlich, also looked to be under duress in some games.

Michael Johnson also told me the same thing heading to the MCG game against Hawks.

Chopper Mayne is way better than his form of 2011. He had to have been injured.

That's my line anyway.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

And another thing, how come Prattsta is getting the Kudos for the line on Chopper leading away from Pav.

That was MY call.....Sheesh.

 

[Clay Davis]

And if they can't get back to somewhere approaching that form will/should become borderline.

I believe our best 22 under Harvey will for the most part be our best 22 under Lyon, with a few positional adjustments.

* So you are blaming Mayne's form on the coaching?

I know this is an attempted gotcha, but yes, Mayne should never have been lined up against players like Glass.

I think Lyon will improve us on Harvey but there are still a number of deficiencies at club level that prevent us from competing for a premiership. Despite the over the top praise on these boards I believe our recruiting and development is at best on par with the league average.