Best premiership side out of Bulldogs 2016, Richmond 2017 and West Coast 2018
- Thread starter Black Stripe
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Excessive Booing
Rookie
- Aug 13, 2019
- 23
- 20
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Banned
- #452
West Coast and it's not even close.
Playing devils advocate can I ask why?
The teams and opponents were different for both Tigers and Eagles in 17 and 18, I'm not sure what relevance this year would have if your comparing those years individually?
Easyyy, we missed one opportunity. Which dynasty didn’t miss one?
Boris the Contradiction
Cancelled
In the year they won it, clearly West Coast. They had a higher H&A position than the other 2 teams in the year they won it which shows they were better for more of the season and they were also the only one of the three to go into the GF as favourite. WB won the Grand Final as the underdog, as did Richmond. WC won as favourite. That level of expectation BEFORE Grand Final day shows where their season was rated if you ignore the fact of their premiership.
They had also beaten all their main competitors for the flag before Grand Final day which shows sustained high level performances.
Richmond was a better side in 2018 than they were in 2017 (despite an obvious issue playing away from the G), but that has nothing to do with their 2017 Premiership and is therefore irrelevant in this discussion.
They had also beaten all their main competitors for the flag before Grand Final day which shows sustained high level performances.
Richmond was a better side in 2018 than they were in 2017 (despite an obvious issue playing away from the G), but that has nothing to do with their 2017 Premiership and is therefore irrelevant in this discussion.
West Coast easily. Dogs were a massive joke, one of the worst premiership sides in history where as Richmond were marginally better.
If they win this year and next the Tigers haven't missed one, maybe I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be, IMO the Tigers have been the best team over the last 3 seasons, they need to win this year to not blow their chance like the Power and Bombers did.
- Oct 2, 2016
- 8,221
- 12,255
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- L.A Angels, Anaheim Ducks & M.Stars
Can I get the tattslotto numbers while you’re at it?...You could quite possibly end up being right, but making a statement so definitively is quite naive....Especially after the fact the Tigers were “certain” to make the GF last year...
It’s pretty funny that people (nuffies) just write off the Dogs 2016 because we finished 7th. Here are the win/loss records of the three teams:
2016 Dogs: 15-7 115%
2017 Tigers: 15-7 118%
2018 Eagles: 16-6 121%
Both the 2017 Tigers record and the Eagles 2018 record would have placed them at 7th in 2016, the same spot as the Dogs.
And we did what we did with a pretty miserable injury run during the H&A. I think if we hadn’t lost Murphy, Macrae, Libba, Dahlhaus, Wallis, and others for long stretches we might have won another game or two. But ultimately it didn’t matter.
IMO 2016 was the most competitive at the top end, of the three years. Sydney, Hawthorn and Geelong still hadn’t tailed off (both Hawthorn and Sydney would drop the next year), GWS were at their absolute peak (it has since turned out), Adelaide were nearly at their peak. Even the Eagles in 6th were coming off a grand final and would drop off in 2017.
At the end of the day, I love that we did it from 7th in a ridiculously competive year, winning four consecutive finals, across three states, and knocking off 3/4 of the top 4. It was awesome. And unlikely to soon be repeated.
No disrespect to the Tigs & Eagles either, as they were both great sides and worthy premiers with arguments to be made for each of them (I’m not answering the thread question), just pointing out some things that get ignored about the Dogs and 2016.
2016 Dogs: 15-7 115%
2017 Tigers: 15-7 118%
2018 Eagles: 16-6 121%
Both the 2017 Tigers record and the Eagles 2018 record would have placed them at 7th in 2016, the same spot as the Dogs.
And we did what we did with a pretty miserable injury run during the H&A. I think if we hadn’t lost Murphy, Macrae, Libba, Dahlhaus, Wallis, and others for long stretches we might have won another game or two. But ultimately it didn’t matter.
IMO 2016 was the most competitive at the top end, of the three years. Sydney, Hawthorn and Geelong still hadn’t tailed off (both Hawthorn and Sydney would drop the next year), GWS were at their absolute peak (it has since turned out), Adelaide were nearly at their peak. Even the Eagles in 6th were coming off a grand final and would drop off in 2017.
At the end of the day, I love that we did it from 7th in a ridiculously competive year, winning four consecutive finals, across three states, and knocking off 3/4 of the top 4. It was awesome. And unlikely to soon be repeated.
No disrespect to the Tigs & Eagles either, as they were both great sides and worthy premiers with arguments to be made for each of them (I’m not answering the thread question), just pointing out some things that get ignored about the Dogs and 2016.
- Jun 12, 2018
- 4,263
- 8,092
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
Dogs were the best to watch there 4 finals games is how footy should look like. Can still watch the 4 games as a neutral.
Eagles and tigers far better balanced teams.
Eagles the best team classic football team
Power forwards key defenders midfield bulls and a bit of magic
Eagles and tigers far better balanced teams.
Eagles the best team classic football team
Power forwards key defenders midfield bulls and a bit of magic
I don't think you can compare in-season records across seasons.(Did that make sense? Probably not
). Is it harder to win an even competition, or one where there are several top teams and several duds?For example - in 2016, the Dogs finished 7th. The Top 7 clubs earned 456 premiership points between them, while the bottom 7 earned 160.
In 2017, the top 7 clubs earned 404 points, while the bottom 7 earned 204.
Which is tougher? In 2016, the Dogs probably had more 'gimmee' games playing the weak teams. But they also probably had more 'tough' games because the competition at the top was so even. But maybe it was even at the top because there were no outstanding teams. Maybe the unbalanced draw had something to do with ladder positions.
It's all perception as to what you think is important. How do you rank West Coast? Sure, they won - but they were lucky that Collingwood knocked out the best team of the H&A season, and they didn't have to face them. But then they beat Collingwood - so........... (If the umpire had part that shepherding free in the last marking contests, etc, etc).
I refuse to (seriously) compare teams across seasons - even the same team. (Were Richmond 2018 better than 2017? No idea. All I know is the 2017 team won 2 extra very important games, but the 2018 team won more games overall). You are comparing different playing groups against different opponents.
Still - that's what the internet is for!! So:
Bulldogs were crap, lucky, favoured-by-umpires golden boys.
West Coast had a dream run getting the best side knocked out by someone else, and then it fits the AFL narrative to have an interstate side win occasionally.
Therefore - Tigers are best! Yay!
Interesting theory. I'm not arguing for one over the other as I think it's almost impossible to do, however consider that in 2017 Richmond dominated each other top 4 side in finals, the QF, PF and smashed Crows in the GF.
Generally finals are considered where the "best" teams are decided. Otherwise Richmond of 2018 finishing 3 games clear on top should be talked about more, and how often does the highest side on the ladder win the flag anyway? It doesn't work like that...
In 2018 Finals Eagles only had to beat 1 other top 4 side (Collingwood twice) and Melbourne who didn't even make the top 4. They beat the other top 4 side Collingwood by a combined margin of 21 points. Richmond won each final by more than that, and in the GF alone smashed the top of the ladder side by 48 points...
Secondly, based on your argument of finishing higher and being the better side and winning as favorite, they didn't play or have to beat the top side in Richmond in a final. Richmond proved they could and did beat their biggest contenders. The Eagles didn't in 2018. Had of the Tigers made the GF, based on your words Eagles would have been the underdog and even if they won, for some reason that's not rated as high as if they were the favorites? Ignoring the fact they didn't play the other top 4 side as well in the Hawks, like the Tigers did in 17 beating all 3.
Finally, in looking at how they followed their flag, Tigers finished 2018 3 games clear on top and lost out in a bad PF for us. To date, our H&A season post flag is significantly better than the Eagles, and remains to be seen if Eagles will go one better in 2019 than the Tigers did.
No issue with your opinion, many probably do believe Eagles to be the best, but the logic behind your argument is incredibly poor. And I feel there is a lot of pumping up the Eagles here to talk down your loss in the GF, "well we lost to the best of the 3 so it's not as bad, they must have been the best".
What I've said above aren't based on opinion of who is the better team, I've just listed results and objective facts
Boris the Contradiction
Cancelled
All fair points, but I disagree with you.
West Coast was clearly the best side in 2018 and your respective ladder positions were a red herring in my opinion.
Last year the Tigers beat up on teams at the MCG. As impressive as that was, they seriously struggled away. Everyone thought a Tigers flag was a fait accompli because that's where the GF was. However, West Coast played in Melbourne 5 times for 5 wins, 3 of those against eventual top 4 sides. When they played Richmond during the season, they thumped them by 43 points.
Contrast this with Richmond, who played away from Melbourne 5 times for 4 losses. Your premiership favourite tag was undeserved IMO and this ultimately proved to be the case.
West Coast was very underrated last year as they were clearly the best side. Beat (and at no point lost to) all the best sides home and away (mostly away) and ultimately won the thing. Richmond lost to all of the other top 4 sides in 2017 (Adelaide, Geelong and GWS) which shows they weren't the best side throughout 2017 and simple came good at the right time. This is very similar to Collingwood in 2018, although we didn't get over the line.
I don't understand why you dismiss the point on ladder positions either. West Coast won the flag from second, Richmond from third and the Dogs weren't even top 4. Given all sides ultimately won the flag, the higher ladder position indicates that WC was the best of the 3 sides during the season. I don't even think it's arguable that they weren't.
Last edited:
- Aug 31, 2008
- 23,506
- 47,267
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Nuggets
IMO it's Richmond, then WCE (very close), then the Doggies.
blckcaviar
Team Captain
- Jul 21, 2018
- 484
- 1,259
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Richmond, and I consider them to have been the best team for the last 3 years
Eagles aren't a far fetched opinion, no issues with that. I just disagree with the validity of some of your logic as I guess you do mine, but fair play there's arguments for both.
- May 21, 2015
- 4,508
- 6,783
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Things that didn't happen
bh90210fan
Norm Smith Medallist
- Sep 4, 2017
- 9,623
- 11,110
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Banned
- #470
Yeah it was just an 8 goal hiding
7, but I digress
You can’t base the entire thing on 1 mid season game. No one goes through undefeated.
Last year Richmond were the best team from March to August (and quite clearly - 2 games is not a small margin), while West Coast were 2nd.
Then in September, West Coast were best, followed by Collingwood with GWS probably 3rd. Richmond probably only 5th best.
The one thing all of the 16, 17, 18 premiership teams have in common is being the best in September.
- May 21, 2015
- 4,508
- 6,783
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Mostly assisted by the umpires, the Eagle way
bh90210fan
Norm Smith Medallist
- Sep 4, 2017
- 9,623
- 11,110
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Banned
- #473
isnt that how you won your flag?
- May 21, 2015
- 4,508
- 6,783
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Please if it wasn't for the umps Richmond would have won by more
Similar threads
