Best small forward of all time?

[Procrastinator35]

Although not all listed in the poll the best 3 players in this discussion were, in order

Matthews
Bartlett
Daicos

That shouldn't really be in dispute if you saw them play, nor should the order I put them in be. None should be considered forwards though as they were principally on-ballers.

Nice summation......Though the poll is likely more indicative of age demographics.

And the fact it still churns away at Blues posters' guts, even after all these years, to admit that Barney was easily the GOAT, is extra delicious.

 

[Jordie_tackles]

Jeff Farmer was my favourite player growing up!

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Barney & Hungry were both rovers, who finished their careers as forwards....Very similar careers in fact, with Bartlett being less prone to injury.

Hungry had pace, whereas Barney had strength & agility.

Barney: 332 games....915 goals....2.76 average
Hungry: 403 games....778 goals...1.93 average

So Bartlett played 71 more games, yet kicked 137 goals less.

Factor in that differential & it's close to a 200 goal gap....Nuf said.

Bartlett did a hell of a lot more roving than Matthews did.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Bartlett did a hell of a lot more roving than Matthews did.

Bartlett finished his career as a half forward flanker, remembering he kicked 7 in the 1980 Grand Final from just that position. While Barney was basically our full forward from 1983 onwards, once Jeans decided that both he & Moncrieff could not work in the same side.....Bartlett was every bit as 'Hungry' for goal as Barney was.....Matthews did occasionally handball some away....Still far & away the best small forward to have played the game.

 

[saintkildaman]

Milne.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Is Breust far away from belonging in this conversation?

He offers far more defensively than the others, but is potentially going to get to a similar level of goals?

Does sitting alongside Roughead/Franklin/Gunston/Cyril hold him back, or does never being the #1 target of his team improve his standing?

 

[iameviljez]

Is Breust far away from belonging in this conversation?

Given the post a few above mentions a fellow by the name of Leigh Matthews... probably not.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Well yeah, if Lethal can be considered, then it's just a discussion for 2nd.

 

[00Stinger]

Phil Matera lol

 

[Wallaby]

I think the main difference between Matthews and Bartlett, was Matthews was big enough to play as a key forward. He was such a unit.

The 3 straight years he kicked 74,79, and 77 goals, playing almost exclusively as pure forward, he took 347 marks (and got 126 frees).
The years Bartlett kicked 84, 58, 58 goals, he took 175 marks and received 89 frees.

Matthews was a far more all-round player - I don't think KB took an overhead mark in his life. Matthews was good enough to do it all - and very well. He's in the GOAT discussion.
But as the traditional goalsneak, snap for the impossible goal, rove the fall of the ball, hang out the back for a cheapie, run past for the handball receive (sorry - be in right place to support teammate) - KB was better (just).

 

[Procrastinator35]

I think the main difference between Matthews and Bartlett, was Matthews was big enough to play as a key forward. He was such a unit.

The 3 straight years he kicked 74,79, and 77 goals, playing almost exclusively as pure forward, he took 347 marks (and got 126 frees).
The years Bartlett kicked 84, 58, 58 goals, he took 175 marks and received 89 frees.

Matthews was a far more all-round player - I don't think KB took an overhead mark in his life. Matthews was good enough to do it all - and very well. He's in the GOAT discussion.
But as the traditional goalsneak, snap for the impossible goal, rove the fall of the ball, hang out the back for a cheapie, run past for the handball receive (sorry - be in right place to support teammate) - KB was better (just).

Bartlett was definitely quicker & was more your pure rover, in the old fashioned sense....But Barney made a lot of his own gaols through sheer strength, agility, persistence & brilliance.....I doubt you'd find either of them much frequenting the defensive side of the centre square throughout their careers....Both of em loved a goal more than anything else.

I also noticed that you merely cited his goals from when he principally played as a full-forward between 1982-1984.....But guess what.....He also snaffled a lazy 68, 71, 91 & 71 from the years 1975-1978, when he was in his prime & playing as first rover......That's right.....A rover in the VFL/AFL kicked 91 goals in a single season matey.....Barney also won the Coleman in 1975....Show me another small forward who has done that, much less playing as the first string rover.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

In my lifetime.

If it's about going to the footy to be amazed by skill it was Daicos.

If it's the player to help you win a flag it's Matthews clearly. The fact he could and did play midfield as well is neither here nor there to me.

 

[Procrastinator35]

How anyone can vote Milne ahead of Daicos, is a total head-scratcher.

 

[windyhill]

How anyone can vote Milne ahead of Daicos, is a total head-scratcher.

Daicos height, 1.84m.
Milne height, 1.76m.
Small forward. SMALL !

 

[Procrastinator35]

Daicos height, 1.84m.
Milne height, 1.76m.
Small forward. SMALL !

Daicos is in the O/P's poll thread.....Am I the O/P?

In no way could he be considered a key position forward of the modern game. In fact, he played the role of the small forward perfectly.

And just FYI.....Barney was 178cm's....KB was 177cm's

 

[windyhill]

Daicos is in the O/P's poll thread.....Am I the O/P?

In no way could he be considered a key position forward of the modern game. In fact, he played the role of the small forward perfectly.

And just FYI.....Barney was 178cm's....KB was 177cm's

Sorry, too tall.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Sorry, too tall.

He's about the average height of today's modern rover.....aka a Collingwood 6 footer.....In contemporary football parlance, he's on the shorter side of the ledger.

I've got no issue with him being tagged as a small forward, because that's precisely the way he played.....Potaytoes/Potahtoes

 

[windyhill]

He's about the average height of today's modern rover.....aka a Collingwood 6 footer.....In contemporary football parlance, he's on the shorter side of the ledger.

I've got no issue with him being tagged as a small forward, because that's precisely the way he played.....Potaytoes/Potahtoes

Tall on-baller moved forward late in his career.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Tall on-baller moved forward late in his career.

Tall?.....That's a stretch.....Especially considering his short stubby legs.

Here's a sample of his work....Most of these goals are your typical small forward opportunist goals.

 

[MinerBoy]

Daicos played in an era when players the field over aren't as big as they are now. He's not all that different in height to Dunstall and Ablett Snr.

I wouldn't classify him as a small forward in traditional sense.

 

[TimmeT]

can senior ablett be included as he is only 1cm taller than daicos as well

 

[Procrastinator35]

Daicos played in an era when players the field over aren't as big as they are now. He's not all that different in height to Dunstall and Ablett Snr.

I wouldn't classify him as a small forward in traditional sense.

He was no where near as big or as good over his head as those 2.....Daicos could not in any sense, be classified as a tall marking forward.....He played the role of the small opportunist forward, much as Luke Breust (The same height) does today.

Dunstall & Ablett were also 98 & 97kgs at their respective playing weights, as compared to Daicos' 84kgs....Size, body shape & position played is not all about height....Daicos simply isn't in that conversation.

 

[MinerBoy]

He was no where near as big or as good over his head as those 2.....Daicos could not in any sense, be classified as a tall marking forward.....He played the role of the small opportunist forward, much as Luke Breust (The same height) does today.

Dunstall & Ablett were also 98 & 97kgs at their respective playing weights, as compared to Daicos' 84kgs....Size, body shape & position played is not all about height....Daicos simply isn't in that conversation.

1cm less than Ablett and 4cm shorter than Dunstall. However I never said he was a tall KPP but neither was he a genuine small forward


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[Procrastinator35]

1cm less than Ablett and 4cm shorter than Dunstall. However I never said he was a tall KPP but neither was he a genuine small forward

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As I intimated....Their differing weights & builds made all the difference as to how they played & what role they played.....I saw the entirety of Daicos' career & he played the forward role precisely the same way as the small opportunist forward does.....Ablett & Dunstall were lead out & mark forwards.....He played nothing like them nor a tall forward in the least.....His height proximity to Ablett Snr & Dunstall is utterly irrelevant in this context.

 

[MinerBoy]

As I intimated....Their differing weights & builds made all the difference as to how they played & what role they played.....I saw the entirety of Daicos' career & he played the forward role precisely the same way as the small opportunist forward does.....Ablett & Dunstall were lead out & mark forwards.....He played nothing like them nor a tall forward in the least.....His height proximity to Ablett Snr & Dunstall is utterly irrelevant in this context.

Yeah you're not the only one who has been around longer than 5 minutes. He may not have played as conventionally as others but he also was the key focal point for any number of years. Just because he was one of the best at the dribbly goals that are now common place, doesn't mean he didn't get his share of goals as all forwards did. Most of his snaps were great one on one battles where he outpointed his opponent but not necessarily the front and centre at pace that we see from the small forwards either.

He's what I would call a genuine HFF/medium forward who played key forward at times and on ball at others.

Makes him a super star in his ability to do a bit of everything I guess, but I'm never really coming around to him being considered a small forward.