Best Team for Finals - Selection Dilemas

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Thread starter #1
I know we still have injuries etc but I want to know at what stage we finalise our side for the finals?

I guess this is also directed at those of us who call for every player on our list to get a game. I think it is too late for Meesen to play a game, no matter the urgency in bribing him to stay.

I am a believer in getting a majority of the squad playing together at least 4 weeks before finals , I think Perrie and Van Berlo and Hart would be front runners to come back into the side.

I wonder if Bock and Welsh and Hudson should get a game. If I were to choose 1 of those 3 it would be Hudson but only for the shock value.. :eek:

(have I missed anyone?)
 

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James23

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#2
Re: When Do We Finalise Our Side For Finals?

it will be finalised on form.. if ur good enough to earn and keep your spot you wont be dropped

big decisions coming up -

stevens and bock

hart and torney

van berlo / knights / porplyzia

perrie / welsh who can make way for these???
 

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#3
Re: When Do We Finalise Our Side For Finals?

I think we need to have as much of the side we plan to take into finals playing from Round 20 onwards. Round 20 is our only game at the MCG for the year so the boys need a good trot on that because naturally we have realistic aspirations to be there on the last day in September. That gives them three games of the season to play together + finals.

Injury can still make more spots available but I hope that's not the case.
In the event that we have no more injuries and these players perform at the standard we would expect from them in the SANFL then my 22 would be:

Bassett Rutten Hart
McLeod Bock Johncock
Burton Reilly Mattner
Edwards Perrie Hentschel
Bode Ricciuto Thompson
Biglands Shirley Goodwin
Bench: Van Berlo Doughty Clarke Torney/Massie
EMG: McGregor/Welsh Torney/Massie Porplyzia

Man, that was REALLY tough. I can't really split Torney and Massie and it was hard leaving one of them out. I had a hard time leaving Welsh and Stevens out of the 25 and I think Perrie adds more to the team than McGregor. Both have good work ethic and create contests but Perrie is better IMO.

Clarke over Maric for mine. Maric is only just holding up well right now but come finals you've gotta do better than that. Tough call on the kid though.
Hudson and Welsh could be our big trump cards come finals though. Hard to tell with Huddo and I don't expect him to play, but if Welsh can get on the track and get a few good games under his belt then I could see him being very important.
 

kimirocks

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#4
Re: When Do We Finalise Our Side For Finals?

Vic Crow said:
I think we need to have as much of the side we plan to take into finals playing from Round 20 onwards. Round 20 is our only game at the MCG for the year so the boys need a good trot on that because naturally we have realistic aspirations to be there on the last day in September. That gives them three games of the season to play together + finals.

Injury can still make more spots available but I hope that's not the case.
In the event that we have no more injuries and these players perform at the standard we would expect from them in the SANFL then my 22 would be:

Bassett Rutten Hart
McLeod Bock Johncock
Burton Reilly Mattner
Edwards Perrie Hentschel
Bode Ricciuto Thompson
Biglands Shirley Goodwin
Bench: Van Berlo Doughty Clarke Torney/Massie
EMG: McGregor/Welsh Torney/Massie Porplyzia

Man, that was REALLY tough. I can't really split Torney and Massie and it was hard leaving one of them out. I had a hard time leaving Welsh and Stevens out of the 25 and I think Perrie adds more to the team than McGregor. Both have good work ethic and create contests but Perrie is better IMO.

Clarke over Maric for mine. Maric is only just holding up well right now but come finals you've gotta do better than that. Tough call on the kid though.
Hudson and Welsh could be our big trump cards come finals though. Hard to tell with Huddo and I don't expect him to play, but if Welsh can get on the track and get a few good games under his belt then I could see him being very important.
This is exactly what i have been thinking. At the moment I can't see Massie dropping out, which would leave Torney as an emergency, which just seams wrong. But Perrie, in my mind, is definately our CHF, and Stevens is unlucky, he has played well, but in finals, I am still not confident in him 100%. Bock will need to work hard to keep this spot from him, as if he, Harty, Fred or Truck pick up an injury he would come straight back. McGregor I think needs a few weeks in the SANFL, so I would take the Sarge over to Perth against WC, providing he goes alright this week. Welsh in the finals could be great, coming in for a late injury on GF eve (if we get that far) could easily kick 5 or 6, I guess its a great position to be in. Good job V.C.
 

crowmyzone

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#6
Re: When Do We Finalise Our Side For Finals?

The thursday before the first final....it will come down to that!
Id leave it that late anyway.

Those playing at present that should be put aside in any case IMHO include

Bode, Stevens, Skipworth and Maric. Not theyve done too much wrong I just think that Porps, Bock, Hart and Clarke will usurp them.

Id like to fit Perrie in there and who knows he may demand a spot with his form; but I doubt it.

Van Berlo, Knights and Torney will miss.
 

beartoo

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#7
Re: When Do We Finalise Our Side For Finals?

Saw Craig interviewed last night and he said he didn't have a best 22 in his mind. Think it depends on form.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Clark in for Maric this week.
Any player in the side going around at present that misses the finals will be stiff. Hard job being a selector right now.
I reckon Van Berlo will be in the finals side. His form before he was injured was too good for him not to be there.
 

RoosterLad

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#8
Re: When Do We Finalise Our Side For Finals?

It depends how our injured/coming back from injury players perform and how long it takes for them to get back to a reasonable level of fitness. Blokes like Welsh and Perrie, VB, Huddo, cant see a problem with Hart as he will slot straight back in and look like he hasnt missed a game.

beartoo its a geat position to be in eh
 

marvin

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#9
Re: When Do We Finalise Our Side For Finals?

I don't think it's too late to experiment or to re-shuffle.

Chris Knights came in for Rounds 15 and 16 last year.
Stiffy only re-appeared after his broken leg in Round 18.
Nathan Van Berlo had a bunch of matches between Rounds 14-18 last year, then R22 and the first final.

In successful years gone by:
Ben Marsh debuted in Round 14
Aaron Keating re-appeared in a Preliminary Final
Kane Johnson (1998) played 3 times after Round 12 - in R22, the PF and the GF.
Andrew McLeod (1998) didn't really come back from his knee injury till round 19.
Shane Ellen (1997) played Rounds 12-14, then Round 20 onwards.
Tyson Edwards (1997) was out of the side from Round 13 till round 21
Simon Goodwin (1997) played Round 1, Rounds 14-18 then all the finals.
Chad Rintoul (1997) played Rounds 1-4, Round 17, and then Round 21 onwards
Clay Sampson (1997) played from Round 17 onwards.

All went on to be in the best 22 (or 21) by the time the Grand Final came around.

At the same time:
Ian Perrie played Rounds 13, 15 and 17 in 1998.
Tony Modra re-appeared in Round 16, 1998.
Matt Collins played Rounds 15-20 in 1997.
Linden Stevens debuted in Round 22, and played the first final in 1998.

None of their inclusions were destabilising.
 
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#10
Re: When Do We Finalise Our Side For Finals?

There is no rush to finalise our best side, as there is plenty of time. Better off having the players coming back from long term injury gaining match fitness via SANFL & forcing their way back in with decent form.
 

Crow-mo

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#11
Re: When Do We Finalise Our Side For Finals?

marvin said:
I don't think it's too late to experiment or to re-shuffle.

Chris Knights came in for Rounds 15 and 16 last year.
Stiffy only re-appeared after his broken leg in Round 18.
Nathan Van Berlo had a bunch of matches between Rounds 14-18 last year, then R22 and the first final.

In successful years gone by:
Ben Marsh debuted in Round 14
Aaron Keating re-appeared in a Preliminary Final
Kane Johnson (1998) played 3 times after Round 12 - in R22, the PF and the GF.
Andrew McLeod (1998) didn't really come back from his knee injury till round 19.
Shane Ellen (1997) played Rounds 12-14, then Round 20 onwards.
Tyson Edwards (1997) was out of the side from Round 13 till round 21
Simon Goodwin (1997) played Round 1, Rounds 14-18 then all the finals.
Chad Rintoul (1997) played Rounds 1-4, Round 17, and then Round 21 onwards
Clay Sampson (1997) played from Round 17 onwards.

All went on to be in the best 22 (or 21) by the time the Grand Final came around.

At the same time:
Ian Perrie played Rounds 13, 15 and 17 in 1998.
Tony Modra re-appeared in Round 16, 1998.
Matt Collins played Rounds 15-20 in 1997.
Linden Stevens debuted in Round 22, and played the first final in 1998.

None of their inclusions were destabilising.
fairly compelling that :thumbsu:
 

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-VC-

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#12
Re: When Do We Finalise Our Side For Finals?

marvin said:
I don't think it's too late to experiment or to re-shuffle.

Chris Knights came in for Rounds 15 and 16 last year.
Stiffy only re-appeared after his broken leg in Round 18.
Nathan Van Berlo had a bunch of matches between Rounds 14-18 last year, then R22 and the first final.

In successful years gone by:
Ben Marsh debuted in Round 14
Aaron Keating re-appeared in a Preliminary Final
Kane Johnson (1998) played 3 times after Round 12 - in R22, the PF and the GF.
Andrew McLeod (1998) didn't really come back from his knee injury till round 19.
Shane Ellen (1997) played Rounds 12-14, then Round 20 onwards.
Tyson Edwards (1997) was out of the side from Round 13 till round 21
Simon Goodwin (1997) played Round 1, Rounds 14-18 then all the finals.
Chad Rintoul (1997) played Rounds 1-4, Round 17, and then Round 21 onwards
Clay Sampson (1997) played from Round 17 onwards.

All went on to be in the best 22 (or 21) by the time the Grand Final came around.

At the same time:
Ian Perrie played Rounds 13, 15 and 17 in 1998.
Tony Modra re-appeared in Round 16, 1998.
Matt Collins played Rounds 15-20 in 1997.
Linden Stevens debuted in Round 22, and played the first final in 1998.

None of their inclusions were destabilising.
I don't know if Neil Craig is as eccentric as Malcolm Blight though. Sure, all of those moves look good because we know how it turned out but can you picture Neil Craig suddenly debuting someone right now? Meesen would be the closest but even then I don't see him being a part of our finals team.
Love the list though. Great work marvin.
 

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#13
Re: When Do We Finalise Our Side For Finals?

marvin said:
Linden Stevens debuted in Round 22, and played the first final in 1998.

None of their inclusions were destabilising.
Maybe not destabilising but not a great success either.

Linden Stevens only ever played those 2 games, got 4 kicks, 0 marks and 3 handballs in total and then disappeared, and we lost that final to Melbourne.
 

Drummond

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#14
Selection Headaches

How are we going to fit these players, especially the first 4, into the side? :confused:

Ian Perrie- Led the Crows in marks in 2005 (146), second in contested marks (28).

Scott Welsh- Led the Crows in goals (58).

Ben Hudson- No.1 ruckman in 2005 and led the Crows in hard ball gets (73).

Nathan Van Berlo- Future leader of the club who had cemented his spot in the side prior to injury.

Jason Porplyzia- 30 possessions, 6 marks, 3 goals in a best a field effort for West on the weekend.


Now this would be my forward set up for the Finals:

FF: Bode Welsh Ricciuto
CHF: McGregor Hentschel Burton

Where does that leave Perrie? Does Thompson go into the middle, does McGregor go down back instead?
 
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Moderator #15
Re: Selection Headaches

Personally I wouldn't play Perrie. I think we are a better team with McGregor at CHF.

I wouldn't play Welsh either, as we are a better team with Ricciuto at FF and it doesn't look like Roo will be heading into the midfield.

If Hudson shows some form in the SANFL that is an easy one, he comes in for Clarke.

Porplyzia is in only if Bode's form wanes. At this stage I'd still go with Bode though.

Van Berlo is a tough one. Goodbye Massie? Tough call but I'd rather have VB in a final, even though I admit Massie has been in great form.
 

Alex99

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#16
Re: Selection Headaches

Drummond said:
How are we going to fit these players, especially the first 4, into the side? :confused:

Ian Perrie- Led the Crows in marks in 2005 (146), second in contested marks (28).

Scott Welsh- Led the Crows in goals (58).

Ben Hudson- No.1 ruckman in 2005 and led the Crows in hard ball gets (73).

Nathan Van Berlo- Future leader of the club who had cemented his spot in the side prior to injury.

Jason Porplyzia- 30 possessions, 6 marks, 3 goals in a best a field effort for West on the weekend.


Now this would be my forward set up for the Finals:

FF: Bode Welsh Ricciuto
CHF: McGregor Hentschel Burton

Where does that leave Perrie? Does Thompson go into the middle, does McGregor go down back instead?

If Mark Ricciuto can prove his fit enough to go on ball then Scott Welsh can play out of the square at full forward. If Mark Ricciuto only has full forward in his bag of tricks this season then Scott Welsh will miss out and Ian Perrie will play CHF with Trent Hentschel moving to the forward pocket.
 

marvin

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#17
Re: Selection Headaches

It's getting harder to make a case for getting Welsh into the side.

Welsh in 2005 - 58 goals / 23 games 2.52 goals per game
Roo in 2006 - 42 goals / 14 games 3.00 goals per game

While the midfield is arguably stronger with Roo in the guts, who goes out? Massie, maybe, but IMHO he's more value to the side than Welsh is right at the moment - Welsh is a forward and a forward only, but Massie can play on a taller or midsized forward as well as being a useful defensive midfielder.

My preferred forward line is:

Bode Ricciuto Hentschel
Burton McGregor Thompson

It's been the best forward line in the league for 16 weeks.

We're averaging 3 goals per game more than last year (when Welsh and Perrie were fixtures).

Why tinker?
 

NikkiNoo

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#18
Re: Selection Headaches

Have you guys been watching the games the past couple of weeks?

Riccuito has been going into the middle for most of the last two quarters for the past three weeks - swapping with Goodwin. I know that the tv commentators haven't been able to pick up on this swap and still think that Roo is playing in the forward line when you see him line up in the centre for the bounces.... :rolleyes:

I think that Welsh Riccuito Hentschel would be a nightmare of a full forward line for most teams to attempt to cover. Roo and Welshy would both require the same sort of backman to cover each of them and most teams don't have two of those to cover our players. Of our two boys would be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of the 'lesser' backman lining up on them.

Plus Craig has said that Welsh is in his best 22 and who are we to question the great man? ;)
 

Vader

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#19
Re: Selection Headaches

Perrie: Not sure if there is a place for him any more. His best hope is injury to McGregor or Hentschel. The forward line is functioning better with two talls than it ever did with four last year.

Welsh: I simply can't see the case for bringing him into the side, for the reasons outlined by Marvin.

Hudson: Drop Clarke. Problem solved.

Van Berlo: Goodbye Jason Torney.

Porplyzia: Fighting for one position with Bode. Will depend upon the form of the incumbent.

It's really nice having so much depth to call upon if we lose a player through injury.
 

rayven

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#20
Re: Selection Headaches

My observations have been since Trent started playing consistently well Ricciuto stopped being the cheif goal kicker and started playing a Perrie type role but from ff/fp, where Perrie was more up the ground when he played.

If the captain is fit I would play him in the middle,it had an immeadite impact during the 3rd quarter against Hawthorn.

If Porps learns from why he was dropped I think he is potentially more damaging than bode.

Would like to see Welsh up on the HF line where he got his premiership medallion rather than the key forward he had to take on the last few years.

My Forward line.

Porps Hentschel Perrie

Welsh Mcgregor (Rotate midfielders)
 

jo172

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#21
Re: Selection Headaches

NikkiNoo said:
I think that Welsh Riccuito Hentschel would be a nightmare of a full forward line for most teams to attempt to cover. Roo and Welshy would both require the same sort of backman to cover each of them and most teams don't have two of those to cover our players. Of our two boys would be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of the 'lesser' backman lining up on them.
Great Call. Take the Eagles for example, they have Daniel Chick who is a fairly good match up for Roo or Welsh however if both were to play on the same team you would probably end up seeing Welsh on Chick and Ricciuto being manned up by Drew Banfield! Barring injury Welsh will play in the finals.

My Forward Line

FF: Ricciuto Welsh Hentshel
HF: Perrie McGregor Thompson

with Bode and Burton spending time there swapping with Thommo and the Roo.
 

Drummond

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#22
Re: Selection Headaches

If Perrie comes back into the side, he won't get "in the way" of the other forwards. He will simply lead up towards the middle of the ground, and present an option for the defenders bursting out of defence.

As Nikki said, I think having Ricciuto and Welsh as the leading forwards would present a major headache for opposition defenders. You would then just leave Hentschel in the square not coming out further than about 40 metres.

Craig has implied that Van Berlo will come back in, as he should, so Torney and Massie seem the players most likely to make way, and even though Torney has been improving he may miss out.
 
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Moderator #23
Re: Selection Headaches

Even if Perrie does lead up the ground, having Ricciuto, Welsh, Hentschel and McGregor all working in the forward 50 won't work. That's too many marking options in such a small space. The balance is off.

Even though Roo and Welsh are fairly mobile and are ok at ground level, they kick the majority of their goals from marks.
 

beartoo

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#24
Re: Selection Headaches

NikkiNoo said:
Plus Craig has said that Welsh is in his best 22 and who are we to question the great man? ;)
I know Craig said that earlier in the season, but when he was being interviewed last week or the week before and was asked who would come into the side, he replied that he didn't have a 'best 22' in mind and that it would depend upon form.
 
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#25
Re: Selection Headaches

Vader said:
Perrie: Not sure if there is a place for him any more. His best hope is injury to McGregor or Hentschel. The forward line is functioning better with two talls than it ever did with four last year.

Welsh: I simply can't see the case for bringing him into the side, for the reasons outlined by Marvin.

Hudson: Drop Clarke. Problem solved.

Van Berlo: Goodbye Jason Torney.

Porplyzia: Fighting for one position with Bode. Will depend upon the form of the incumbent.

It's really nice having so much depth to call upon if we lose a player through injury.
Out of sight out of mind Vader? In the early part of the year we were all saying how important he was to the side and how well he was playing .....now there is no spot for him anymore :rolleyes:

Clarke who IS the best tap ruckman in the league and got the team back on track with clearances Friday after weeks of being thrashed by all sides in clearances .....and you say "right off with ya" :rolleyes:

Sorry I can't follow your logic in any of your statements other than your emotional preferences
 
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