Best Team for Finals - Selection Dilemas

Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Posts
64,747
Likes
56,345
Location
Baghdad
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
West Adelaide, Baghdad Bombers
#26
Re: Selection Headaches

Roo has proved an adequate FF but when he's gone all the ball spasmodically it's clear that's where his "Heart and Home" is.

As a fulltime forward he can be countered, as a midfielder resting across HF and FF lines WOW he will cause other sides matchup problems.

IMO the crows probably prefer Hentschell as the FF with Perrie and Kenny across HF with Thompson and Roo interchanging......Welsh in one pocket and Bode/Porplyzia in the other.

Gee the Crows continue to push Porplyzia's barrow in all print media....IMO indicates a high level of respect within the club.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
May 21, 2001
Posts
49,522
Likes
38,515
Location
Floating around the Universe
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide Crows
#27
Re: Selection Headaches

F: Hentschel, Ricciuto, Welsh
HF: Burton, McGregor, Perrie
C: Doughty, Goodwin, Reilly
HB: Mattner, Bock, McLeod
B: Bassett, Rutten, Johncock
R: Biglands, Shirley, Edwards

I: Clarke, Thompson, Massie, Hart
E:Torney,Van Berlo,Bode/Porplyzia

We should get by with a tall forward line come the finer weather in the finals.

Roo to become part of the midfield/forward rotations with Goody & Edwards.

Pressure will be on the likes of Doughty, Reilly, Mattner, Thompson & Mattner to keep performing, otherwise plenty of others lining up for their spots!
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Posts
64,747
Likes
56,345
Location
Baghdad
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
West Adelaide, Baghdad Bombers
#28
Re: Selection Headaches

Kane McGoodwin said:
F: Hentschel, Ricciuto, Welsh
HF: Burton, McGregor, Perrie
C: Doughty, Goodwin, Reilly
HB: Mattner, Bock, McLeod
B: Bassett, Rutten, Johncock
R: Biglands, Shirley, Edwards

I: Clarke, Thompson, Massie, Hart
E:Torney,Van Berlo,Bode/Porplyzia

We should get by with a tall forward line come the finer weather in the finals.

Roo to become part of the midfield/forward rotations with Goody & Edwards.

Pressure will be on the likes of Doughty, Reilly, Mattner, Thompson & Mattner to keep performing, otherwise plenty of others lining up for their spots!
I'd like to argue that line up ....but I can't ;)

The argument for a small forward in that lineup IMO could only be argued on the basis of pace eg Douglas

With Bode and Porplyzia their pace is on a par with Welsh so we don't lose anything in pace or crumbing but both Porplyzia and Welsh bring additional marking .....Porplyzia is equal to Bode in tackling, Welsh often tackles high and gives free kicks away.

Bode, Porplyzia, Welsh.....form to dictate.
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Posts
1,792
Likes
183
Location
Watago's
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
The Magnificent AFC
#29
Re: Selection Headaches

Kane McGoodwin said:
F: Hentschel, Ricciuto, Welsh
HF: Burton, McGregor, Perrie
C: Doughty, Goodwin, Reilly
HB: Mattner, Bock, McLeod
B: Bassett, Rutten, Johncock
R: Biglands, Shirley, Edwards

I: Clarke, Thompson, Massie, Hart
E:Torney,Van Berlo,Bode/Porplyzia

We should get by with a tall forward line come the finer weather in the finals.

Roo to become part of the midfield/forward rotations with Goody & Edwards.

Pressure will be on the likes of Doughty, Reilly, Mattner, Thompson & Mattner to keep performing, otherwise plenty of others lining up for their spots!
good effort and pretty much spots on but the fwd line looks a little too tall - noone under 6' 2 :eek:
 

Drummond

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Posts
22,624
Likes
4,824
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Red Wings
#30
Re: Selection Headaches

Wayne's-World said:
Clarke who IS the best tap ruckman in the league and got the team back on track with clearances Friday after weeks of being thrashed by all sides in clearances .....and you say "right off with ya" :rolleyes:
Lets not get carried away now. :rolleyes:

I'm one of his harshest critics and yes he was great in the second half on Friday night. However in reality the Kangaroos have one of the weakest ruck divisions in the league. David Hale, their leading ruckman, is averaging 11 hitouts a game, pretty pathetic really. Their backup ruckman for the night, McIntosh, averages just 7 a game. Before you claim he's the best tap ruckman in the league I want to see him up against White, or Simmonds for example.
 

beagle2

Team Captain
Joined
Oct 8, 2004
Posts
351
Likes
44
Location
West Lakes
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
ADELAIDE
#32
Re: Selection Headaches

The Crows Truth said:
good effort and pretty much spots on but the fwd line looks a little too tall - noone under 6' 2 :eek:
Using a non elastic tape measure Roo, Burton and Welsh are all under 6' 2"
 

Eggzoi

Club Legend
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Posts
1,999
Likes
3
Location
Radelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Sam Hill, Nathan Rennie
#33
Re: Selection Headaches

The Crows Truth said:
good effort and pretty much spots on but the fwd line looks a little too tall - noone under 6' 2 :eek:
Should make that 2 under 6'2", Roo and the Birdman.

EDIT: Or someone else could post between me opening the thread and posting.
 
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Posts
1,792
Likes
183
Location
Watago's
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
The Magnificent AFC
#34
Re: Selection Headaches

beagle2 said:
Using a non elastic tape measure Roo, Burton and Welsh are all under 6' 2"
:thumbsu: i stand corrected. my (ill-researched) point was the lack of real crumbers in kanes fwd line - roo and bird ar e more marking targets
 

FCAGJAT

Team Captain
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Posts
509
Likes
0
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Adelaide
#35
Re: Selection Headaches

I wonder with our current position on the ladder is it worth it to experiment with our injured players for a couple of games. Even throw in some of the rookies in douglas and even Meesen? or is that just flirting dangerously with form given our current crop are doing a damn good job at the moment.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
39,739
Likes
19,789
Location
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
#36
Re: Selection Headaches

Wayne's-World said:
Out of sight out of mind Vader? In the early part of the year we were all saying how important he was to the side and how well he was playing .....now there is no spot for him anymore :rolleyes:
Indeed he was and I never said that he wasn't.

As we have all seen, our forward line functions best with two tall forwards. At present, those two are Hentschel and McGregor. There just isn't room for Perrie.

At no stage this year have we played a 3-man tall forward line. One of our tall forwards (frequently McGregor) was usually required to play at CHB, covering the absence of Bock. With Bock now back in the side, this is no longer a viable option.

I disagree VERY strongly with those who propose having Perrie, McGregor, Welsh and Hentschel all playing in the forward line, along with Roo & Burton. To me that forward line is far too top heavy and cannot compete at ground level anywhere near as well as our current structure.

For me, there is no place for Welsh in this side while Roo remains in the forward line. Perrie's presence is optional, but in my view non-preferred for the reasons stated above.

Wayne's-World said:
Clarke who IS the best tap ruckman in the league and got the team back on track with clearances Friday after weeks of being thrashed by all sides in clearances .....and you say "right off with ya" :rolleyes:
Hudson offers so much more than Clarke. If he can prove that he is capable of performing at the same level as he was in 2005, then he is an automatic selection. Clarke is a great tap ruckman, I've never said otherwise, but he is completely useless around the ground.

In contrast, Hudson was so good around the ground that he actually led our centre square clearances.

However, Hudson is no certainty. We are all waiting to see how he has recovered from his knee op. The big question is not over whether he is physically recovered, but whether his confidence has recovered also.

Wayne's-World said:
Sorry I can't follow your logic in any of your statements other than your emotional preferences
Maybe my explanations above might help?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

marvin

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 24, 2000
Posts
3,698
Likes
2,069
Location
Tired old hack in Melb
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide
#37
Re: Selection Headaches

Kane McGoodwin said:
F: Hentschel, Ricciuto, Welsh
HF: Burton, McGregor, Perrie

We should get by with a tall forward line come the finer weather in the finals.
Kane -

That line up is just too top heavy. Sure, we've got 6 marking targets, but if the ball hits the ground, we're history.

The lesson to be learnt from the Richmond debacle is that we need some chasing forwards if the opposition decide to chip it around in the back 50. West Coast, Sydney, Collingwood and Melbourne are all capable of playing this style if needs be.

We had the right mix on Friday night, with Bode bringing his A-game, Burton and Thompson all pressuring the ball as North tried to flick it around in their own 50. Kenny and Perrie might work hard but they can't be applying the kind of rotating pressure that needs to go on. Welsh is capable of applying pressure but is unlikely to be fit enough to do so, Hentschel is not a renowned defensive player (though that aspect is starting to improve), leaving just Roo and Burton to apply decent defensive pressure.
 

Crow-mo

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Posts
24,569
Likes
50
Location
Mo Mansions LA
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
adelaide
#38
Re: Selection Headaches

beartoo said:
I know Craig said that earlier in the season, but when he was being interviewed last week or the week before and was asked who would come into the side, he replied that he didn't have a 'best 22' in mind and that it would depend upon form.
he kicked 60 goals last year, he is our only natural forward - he'll play.
 

Crow-mo

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Posts
24,569
Likes
50
Location
Mo Mansions LA
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
adelaide
#39
Re: Selection Headaches

Drummond said:
Before you claim he's the best tap ruckman in the league I want to see him up against White, or Simmonds for example.
He's been a better tap ruckman than both of these guys for 10 years+

what's changed? ;)
 
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Posts
64,747
Likes
56,345
Location
Baghdad
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
West Adelaide, Baghdad Bombers
#41
Re: Selection Headaches

Vader said:
I disagree VERY strongly with those who propose having Perrie, McGregor, Welsh and Hentschel all playing in the forward line, along with Roo & Burton. To me that forward line is far too top heavy and cannot compete at ground level anywhere near as well as our current structure.

For me, there is no place for Welsh in this side while Roo remains in the forward line. Perrie's presence is optional, but in my view non-preferred for the reasons stated above.
agree about this year but last year it worked OK and the argument about being top heavy IMO only works if you have a speedy player like a Matera, Stiffy Johncock or Milne
Our smalls in Bode, Vince, and Porplyzia do not offer that speed that the above players have, therefore Welsh, Burton ect offer the same ground level ability, pace but with additional marking power....and marking power is what you need in finals when balls are scambled forward in the pressure games.

Hudson offers so much more than Clarke.....yes but that's history in 05 If he can prove that he is capable of performing at the same level as he was in 2005, then he is an automatic selection. Clarke is a great tap ruckman, I've never said otherwise, but he is completely useless around the ground.

In contrast, Hudson was so good around the ground that he actually led our centre square clearances.

However, Hudson is no certainty. We are all waiting to see how he has recovered from his knee op. The big question is not over whether he is physically recovered, but whether his confidence has recovered also.
I would love the 2005 Hudson to be back but given our thrashings around the stoppages and ruck contests I still think the Crows want the "tap" power of Clarke.
 

Mad Dog

Yoda's life coach
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Posts
14,672
Likes
140
Location
Inside 50
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
The van Berlos
#42
Re: Selection Headaches

Kane McGoodwin said:
F: Hentschel, Ricciuto, Welsh
HF: Burton, McGregor, Perrie
C: Doughty, Goodwin, Reilly
HB: Mattner, Bock, McLeod
B: Bassett, Rutten, Johncock
R: Biglands, Shirley, Edwards

I: Clarke, Thompson, Massie, Hart
E:Torney,Van Berlo,Bode/Porplyzia
thats my 22....:thumbsu:...........with Huddo to replace Clarke if fit and firing
 
Joined
May 21, 2001
Posts
49,522
Likes
38,515
Location
Floating around the Universe
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide Crows
#43
Re: Selection Headaches

marvin said:
Kane -

That line up is just too top heavy. Sure, we've got 6 marking targets, but if the ball hits the ground, we're history.

The lesson to be learnt from the Richmond debacle is that we need some chasing forwards if the opposition decide to chip it around in the back 50. West Coast, Sydney, Collingwood and Melbourne are all capable of playing this style if needs be.

We had the right mix on Friday night, with Bode bringing his A-game, Burton and Thompson all pressuring the ball as North tried to flick it around in their own 50. Kenny and Perrie might work hard but they can't be applying the kind of rotating pressure that needs to go on. Welsh is capable of applying pressure but is unlikely to be fit enough to do so, Hentschel is not a renowned defensive player (though that aspect is starting to improve), leaving just Roo and Burton to apply decent defensive pressure.
I don't think height is an issue (particularly when dry) - it is more an issue of mobility. Most of our tall forwards, with exception of McGregor are mobile. Both Sarge & Welsh are great at harrassing, tackling & pressurising opposition backmen - Roo & Burton the same. With Roo returning to full fitness, I would see Thompson, Edwards & Goodwin also rotating forward. If on a given day we are top heavy, there are smaller options off the bench.

PS. I'm with Wayne's World, that Bode offers no quicker option than Welsh or even Perrie for that matter. He is no Aaron Davey.
 

jc67

Club Legend
Joined
Oct 22, 2003
Posts
2,438
Likes
9
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Crows
#44
Re: Selection Headaches

progressive votes thread said:
Best Team Man
13 Bode
11 Rutten
9 Doughty
8 Bassett
8 Mattner (+1)
7 Van Berlo
5 Johncock (+2)
4 Reilly
3 McGregor (+3)
3 Edwards
3 Massie
3 Shirley
3 Clarke
3 Perrie
2 Biglands
1 Hart
1 Stevens
Whats with all the Bode bashing?
He's doing fine, in fact his flat spot only lasted a few weeks. and he played well on the weekend.
He will extend his BTM lead after this week is finalized.
If Neil is picking the team on form then Crusty's not going anywhere.
 

Crow-mo

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Posts
24,569
Likes
50
Location
Mo Mansions LA
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
adelaide
#45
Re: Selection Headaches

jc67 said:
Whats with all the Bode bashing?
He's doing fine, in fact his flat spot only lasted a few weeks. and he played well on the weekend.
He will extend his BTM lead after this week is finalized.
If Neil is picking the team on form then Crusty's not going anywhere.
stop talking sense! damn you :D
 

Mad Dog

Yoda's life coach
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Posts
14,672
Likes
140
Location
Inside 50
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
The van Berlos
#46
Re: Selection Headaches

jc67 said:
Whats with all the Bode bashing?
He's doing fine, in fact his flat spot only lasted a few weeks. and he played well on the weekend.
He will extend his BTM lead after this week is finalized.
If Neil is picking the team on form then Crusty's not going anywhere.
Bodey is probably having the best season of his career but given the players to come back and the strength of the squad, might end up being one of the very unlucky ones to make way.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
39,739
Likes
19,789
Location
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
#47
Re: Selection Headaches

I personally think that we are now very close to our best 22.

Taking our R16 lineup as the baseline, my changes would be:

IN: Hentschel
OUT: Stevens

IN: Hudson
OUT: Clarke

*** This assumes that Hudson is able to recapture the form he showed in 2005. Given that it normally takes around 1 year of footy for a ruckman to do that, Clarke is likely to remain in the side (though I would prefer Maric personally).

IN: Van Berlo
OUT: Torney

This is the hardest one to decide. VB has to come in, IMHO and Torney is desperately unlucky to be the one who has to make way.

I can't find room for Perrie or Welsh.

Our forward line is working far better this year with a multi-faceted attack. Last year it was too one dimensional, being dependent upon us having four tall forwards and our opponents having only three tall defenders. We were too top heavy and the ball rebounded out of the forward line every time it hit the ground. The current attack has so much variety that it is almost impossible to shut down completely - if it's not Hentschel kicking goals it's Roo, if it's not Roo it's Burton, if it's not Burton it's McGregor.

Perrie is unlucky. He may find a way back in as a 1-for-1 swap with McGregor, but it's hard to see McGregor being dropped. Yes, he was a fundamental part of our attack early this season, but that was when one of our tall forwards was usually required to play at CHB (thus leaving us with the status quo of 2 tall forwards).

Welsh is a victim of Roo's move to FF. Both fill the same role and Roo does it better. There simply isn't room for both in the side.

Welsh may be our three time highest goal kicker, but he is also incredibly inconsistent. One week he'll kick eight goals, the next week he will struggle to have three disposals for the game. This counts against him, IMHO, when it comes to deciding upon a best 22 for the finals.

As for the Bode/Porps vs Welsh debate, Bode & Porps may not be speedsters like Davey, but they are more than adequate crumbers. They fill a role that Welsh cannot. It is a role which we were unable to fill in 2005, to the detriment of the team.
 

marvin

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 24, 2000
Posts
3,698
Likes
2,069
Location
Tired old hack in Melb
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide
#48
Re: Selection Headaches

Kane McGoodwin said:
I don't think height is an issue (particularly when dry) - it is more an issue of mobility. Most of our tall forwards, with exception of McGregor are mobile. Both Sarge & Welsh are great at harrassing, tackling & pressurising opposition backmen - Roo & Burton the same. With Roo returning to full fitness, I would see Thompson, Edwards & Goodwin also rotating forward. If on a given day we are top heavy, there are smaller options off the bench.

PS. I'm with Wayne's World, that Bode offers no quicker option than Welsh or even Perrie for that matter. He is no Aaron Davey.
Sarge and Welsh are mobile when compared to guys their size. However, we'd struggle in the mobility stakes against most of the backlines we'd come up against.

For arguments sake, match

McGregor, Perrie, Hentschel, Welsh, Ricciuto and Burton

with

Glass, Hunter, Nicoski, Wirrpanda, Banfield and Waters
or Barry, Roberts-Thompson, Craig Bolton, Kennelly, Matthews and Bevan
or Carroll, Holland, Rivers, Whelan, Wheatley, and Ward
or Hudghton, Fisher, Fisher, Goddard, Gram and Peckett

(or for that matter, Rutten, Bock, Bassett, McLeod, Johncock and Torney)

We would get smashed several times over in mobility.

Historically, September is not a big man time, despite the weather. 70% of finals will be played at night, bringing the dew into play.

And while I take your point that Bode doesn't have the raw speed of a Davey, he gets to far more contests, because he maintains a high speed for longer. That's why he's got 70 tackles this year to Davey's 50 in 1 less game.
 

- PC -

Hall of Famer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Posts
30,268
Likes
23
Location
Where No Birds Fly
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide/Sturt/Wingfield
Thread starter #49
Re: Selection Headaches

Kane McGoodwin said:
F: Hentschel, Ricciuto, Welsh
HF: Burton, McGregor, Perrie
C: Doughty, Goodwin, Reilly
HB: Mattner, Bock, McLeod
B: Bassett, Rutten, Johncock
R: Biglands, Shirley, Edwards

I: Clarke, Thompson, Massie, Hart
E:Torney,Van Berlo,Bode/Porplyzia
I would have either Bode/Porplyzia as my small forward over Welsh.

VB did his shoulder at the wrong time, but he would be first cab off the rank if any of the backline faltered.
 
Joined
May 21, 2001
Posts
49,522
Likes
38,515
Location
Floating around the Universe
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Adelaide Crows
#50
Re: Selection Headaches

PerthCrow said:
I would have either Bode/Porplyzia as my small forward over Welsh.

VB did his shoulder at the wrong time, but he would be first cab off the rank if any of the backline faltered.
If it is decided that we can't fit all out medium/tall forwards in (for team balance), then Welsh would be the most likely to miss - given Burton & Roo offer similar benefits to the forward line.

Sarge is a must IMO - fit would be picked ahead of McGregor.
 
Top Bottom