Best Team for Finals - Selection Dilemas

Mad Dog

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Most will know that I've let my Rob Shirley Fan Club membership lapse over the last few years....:eek:

.....but FFS........the man has had one shocker against the best mid-field on the planet ....... and while his concentrations levels yesterday deserve criticism - I don't think it's fair to nail him up on yesterday's performance.

As for the train of thought that suggests The Count is the heir apparent to the taggers role........wash your mouth out.....the Great Man is far more than a tagger. Yes his defensive game is outstanding - but he is destined for far more damaging and creative roles in our midfield.
 

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Crow-mo

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Re: Changes Must Be Made

Kane McGoodwin said:
Good post Crow-Mo.

BTW, with the players returning, who do you see as your best-22 for the finals, including Huddo of course? ;)
seriously?

I don't like to do lineups for the simple reason it is too hard to the knock ons. for example, one choice that is often spoken of: would you rather Roo at FF or Welsh. 1. that is too emotive. 2. personally I am not convinced that Roo is a better FF that Welsh. but most importantly that's not the choice.

the choice is Roo can play elsewhere, Welsh is best from the FF line, whether in the square, leading at angles from the flanks. So it's roo rotating on/off the ball, with Welsh up front. I like that a SH*T load more than roo at FF than Welsh not in the team. injuries and form notwithstanding of course.

but when you do that, the whole lineup shifts to accomodate Roo. the knock can affect almost every line down to half back. not always, but can. the bloke to miss out, might be NVB or torney (say). All because of the change at FF.

some obvious players are instrumental to structure so they stay, and someone else more versatile shifts over.

An in-form Bock for stevens, is an example of a straight 1 for 1 substitution, but very few examples like that exist.

The other thing is that supporters are notoriously poor at understanding matchups - always been true; who is really on who, when, and the changes. That's why the coaching box has the board, to track it all. it's not easy. So with that in mind, we don't know who, relative, to the coaching instructions & role was most delinquent in their responsibilities.

That is absolutely 110% relevant, when you are looking at the bottom of the chain reaction, to see which players omit for the big names. when deciding if say, Bode or Torney makes way for Welsh! you'd think about that, because they need not be the obvious choices, but the cascade could well bring it down to them, and the way they followed instruction. Not to mention who is really carrying a little injury and might benefit for the rest.

these are the things the match committee focus on, whilst many supporters see a poor performance as a chance to flog a dead horse.
 
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Re: Changes Must Be Made

Crow-mo said:
seriously?

I don't like to do lineups for the simple reason it is too hard to the knock ons. for example, one choice that is often spoken of: would you rather Roo at FF or Welsh. 1. that is too emotive. 2. personally I am not convinced that Roo is a better FF that Welsh. but most importantly that's not the choice.

the choice is Roo can play elsewhere, Welsh is best from the FF line, whether in the square, leading at angles from the flanks. So it's roo rotating on/off the ball, with Welsh up front. I like that a SH*T load more than roo at FF than Welsh not in the team. injuries and form notwithstanding of course.

but when you do that, the whole lineup shifts to accomodate Roo. the knock can affect almost every line down to half back. not always, but can. the bloke to miss out, might be NVB or torney (say). All because of the change at FF.

some obvious players are instrumental to structure so they stay, and someone else more versatile shifts over.

An in-form Bock for stevens, is an example of a straight 1 for 1 substitution, but very few examples like that exist.

The other thing is that supporters are notoriously poor at understanding matchups - always been true; who is really on who, when, and the changes. That's why the coaching box has the board, to track it all. it's not easy. So with that in mind, we don't know who, relative, to the coaching instructions & role was most delinquent in their responsibilities.

That is absolutely 110% relevant, when you are looking at the bottom of the chain reaction, to see which players omit for the big names. when deciding if say, Bode or Torney makes way for Welsh! you'd think about that, because they need not be the obvious choices, but the cascade could well bring it down to them, and the way they followed instruction. Not to mention who is really carrying a little injury and might benefit for the rest.

these are the things the match committee focus on, whilst many supporters see a poor performance as a chance to flog a dead horse.
I was being serious. Would be very interested in what you think is our best-22, even if it meant putting options in.

I personally think that Roo will only play cameos in the midfield, given his injury problems ... but still think there is a place for Welsh.

Matchups IMO will only mean minor changes to a team, rather than a major change to a structure.
 

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Re: Changes Must Be Made

Wayne's-World said:
:confused:

On two threads today there have been criticisms of "Shirley".......I have been waiting for the usual defence by his supporters...........nothing!

The sounds of silence :rolleyes:
Mainly because the majority of people don't suffer the same prejudices that you do, and haven't bothered with the petty comments.

We got trashed as a team, not by Rob Shirley letting us down.

You're the expert. Name all the good players who played better than Shirley did on the day. Have you got past 6 yet?

Shirley was no better or no worse than the majority of our players. Neither was McGregor. Neither was Bode.

But away you go!! Whip, whip whip!!

Feeling better? :rolleyes:
 

TheLeftFist8

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Re: AFC Team for Finals - Selection Dilemas

noddy said:
Decisions, Decisions.


B: Johncock. Rutten. Bassett

McLeod. Bock. Hart.

Goodwin. Ricciuto. Mattner.

Thompson. Perrie. Bode.

Hentschel. Welsh. Burton.

1R: Hudson. Shirley. Edwards.

Int: Biglands. Torney. Van Berlo & Doughty.
Despite the reservations re Perrie that i have read from those that have seen his comeback, i live in hope. If he doesnt come up, i guess Kenny remains.

Shirley is not our best option as a defensive style midfielder

Welsh must play to release Roo in short midfield bursts

IMO it is line ball between McGregor and Stevens for the spare tall (if required depending on who we play). At this stage, McGregor is more likely to kick goals up forward though Stevens is now a better rebounding defender than Ken ever was. If the tall not needed, Torney assumes utility role.

Bode's season has been patchy and he is not up to being a good midfielder (unless he can tag but he's probably a little small), so there is no room for him when Edwards and Thompson and Porplyzia/Douglas can do his job.

Therefore my team would be:

B: Bassett. Rutten. Hart.
HB: McLeod. Bock. Johncock
C: Mattner. van Berlo. Doughty
HF: Burton. Perrie. Ricciuto
F: Hentschel. Welsh. Edwards.
1R: Hudson. Goodwin. Thompson
Int: Clarke, Massie, Porplyzia/Douglas, McGregor/Stevens or Torney

Emerg: whoever misses out from above bench, and of course Biglands if a ruckman goes down.
 

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Mad Dog said:
Most will know that I've let my Rob Shirley Fan Club membership lapse over the last few years....:eek:

.....but FFS........the man has had one shocker against the best mid-field on the planet ....... and while his concentrations levels yesterday deserve criticism - I don't think it's fair to nail him up on yesterday's performance.

As for the train of thought that suggests The Count is the heir apparent to the taggers role........wash your mouth out.....the Great Man is far more than a tagger. Yes his defensive game is outstanding - but he is destined for far more damaging and creative roles in our midfield.
I agree Mad Dog, of course VB is far greater than a tagger but we are talking about our best team for now and this years finals series.

If he can take Shirley's role, it releases another position in the team for a better player than Shirley. Also, there are taggers and there are defensive midfielders who are smart enough to counter-attack and get possessions as well (Kane Cornes, Josh Carr in his early days...i hate using PAP examples!). Shirley is unlikely to lift his game to that level consistently whereas VB could be accountable for an opponent and also get 15-20 effective touches.
 

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Re: Changes Must Be Made

Kane McGoodwin said:
I was being serious. Would be very interested in what you think is our best-22, even if it meant putting options in.

I personally think that Roo will only play cameos in the midfield, given his injury problems ... but still think there is a place for Welsh.

Matchups IMO will only mean minor changes to a team, rather than a major change to a structure.
ok, will look at it in a bit.
 

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Re: Changes Must Be Made

TheLeftFist8 said:
It should not be about bias or popularity, name or reputation...it is about getting our best possible side on the park come September, and some games offer more insight about the strengths and weaknesses of certain players (i.e. finals type intensity against quality opposition).

Putting emotion aside...is Rob Shirley (a gutsy player who gives everything every week) our best option as a defensive midfielder. IMO :thumbsdown: . It is time for Nathan van Berlo to step up into the role. He has more ability, more pace, more skill, more composure, more footy smarts, more endurance, and equal levels of courage and intensity. Is there room for Shirley as our 2nd string defensive midfielder. IMO :thumbsdown: . I would be giving Poplyzia greater responsibility in the midfield rotations as he is at least the equal of Shirley. If the Porplyzia experiment fails there is always a Massie or Doughty type who could fulfill the secondary role for periods during a match.

Rob Shirley = great team man, gets everything out of himself, excellent SANFL player.
I totally agree... I love every player that puts on the crow guernsey, but too many supporters are a bit sentimental, sypathetic and soft. Hopefully the coaches have a backbone and are a bit more objective, by selecting our best team.

TheLeftFist8
When you analyse it, like you have so rightly done, it makes perfect sense. VB is equal or better than Rob Shirley in every area. The only edge Shirley has over VB is body mass and experience, but in both these areas VB manages to more than compensate. Our footy club needs to be objective and decisive. I hope they don't just select certain players based on the fact that that is how it has always been done. ie Shirley has always been the number 1 defensive midefielder therefore he shall always be the number 1 defensive midfielder. It's the philosophy "If its not broken don't fix it". I hate that mentality with a passion. Its a premiership on the line damn it!!! The game evoles, so must our team. We can always get better, we can always work on the game plan, we can always compete for spots.

I am certainly not (and I'm sure no one else is) having a direct go at Shirley for preferring VB, or a go at Stevens for preferring Bock, or a go at Bode for preferring Welsh. It is merely the desire to improve and win a PREMIERSHIP...
 

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Re: Changes Must Be Made

birdmanptr said:
Can someone explain this one against the roos Hart plays about 30 minutes and Bock plays all but 30 minutes one gets dropped and one goes to Perth.Great player Benny but yesterday he looked dead set lost and slow.
I thought his first and 3rd quarter was ok.

Admittedly I only saw one end but he slipped through traffic calmly. I think it was the pressure WC used that created some issues.
 

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Re: Changes Must Be Made

TheLeftFist8 said:
. It is time for Nathan van Berlo to step up into the role.
. I would be giving Poplyzia greater responsibility in the midfield rotations as he is at least the equal of Shirley.
I would suggest these moves are already happening ie the VB as tagger, with WC you need to tag about 6 :eek: so a Shirley and VB and another will always have a role. Its getting the match ups that is more important.
 
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