Best young KPF moving forward?

[JayJ20]

Hogan was much more AFL ready than Daniher was (body-wise). Daniher was always going to take longer to develop.

Daniher played 5 games in his first year. Hogan played 20 games.

I don't think Daniher is much better than Jesse Hogan, but Daniher is ahead at the moment. No arguments there

 

[Trav 20]

No I'm not, I'm right.

A fact that is very uncomfortable to you because it fatally damages the belief that some people had with Hogan that they were dealing with a generational superstar - something he is not.

Yeah you're deluded.

I just showed you that Daniher's 2017 stats are only marginally different to Hogan's career averages.

Btw, Daniher is averaging 1.5 contested marks per game in 2017, which is 25% below Hogan's career average of 2.1.

Do you dispute Hogan is a better contested mark ?

Hogan will be a superstar. His output at 20/21 stacks up with most of the games greats.

 

[Jade]

Hogan will be a superstar.

And there it is again.

You consistently refer to what Hogan WILL do. You do this because you know that previous performance simply does not stack up to what Daniher is currently outputting.

That you don't seem to understand what it is that you're doing is, well, kind of deluded - the very thing you're attempting to accuse me of.

 

[Ambrosia]

Can we stop pretending 0.7 goals per game difference isn't a massive gap.

Using the same logic 2016 Mitch McGovern, Rory Lobb and Sicily had similar years Hogan.

 

[Trav 20]

And there it is again.

You consistently refer to what Hogan WILL do. You do this because you know that previous performance simply does not stack up to what Daniher is currently outputting.

That you don't seem to understand what it is that you're doing is, well, kind of deluded - the very thing you're attempting to accuse me of.

I say it because it's true. His level of play at 20/21 stacks up with nearly all the great modern key forwards. I see no reason he won't continue to develop and become one of the gun key forwards in the competition. His level of play suggests it's more likely than less. Mooney and Barry Hall have said his level of forward play took them 6-7 years to learn. They were gobsmacked how well he was doing it in his first year.

Btw, he's a better contested mark than Daniher. Daniher in 2017 doesn't even match Hogan's career average. Do you concede Hogan is a better contested mark ?

Your bias is puerile.

 

[Jade]

I say it because it's true. His level of play at 20/21 stacks up with nearly all the great modern key forwards.

You have absolutely lost the plot mate.

Hogan, at 20/21 stacks up with the great key forwards.

I ask this question once and only once - do you want to back away, very quickly from that statement? Or is s**t about to get real messy?

 

[Jade]

And I might add, by making the claim (which by now I think you realise is going to get you in a world of hurt), you're AGAIN proving that your entire opinion on what you think Hogan is as a player is based in what you think he will be - not what he actually is...

Which is why the fact that Daniher is a better player is causing a 'does not compute' in your mind.

Because mate - no one with any semblance of sense actually thinks Hogan is a better player than Daniher - mainly because he isn't.

 

[chickentendies]

Looking at it purely from a statistical perspective at same ages I would take Jesse Hogan over Joe Daniher. I think overall, Hogan will be the better player.
At this very moment currently, Daniher is definitely playing better.

 

[Jade]

Looking at it purely from a statistical perspective at same ages I would take Jesse Hogan over Joe Daniher. I think overall, Hogan will be the better player.
At this very moment currently, Daniher is definitely playing better.

Now you see, not an unreasonable statement, because:

- Hogan was definitely better 'at the same age', don't think I've seen anyone dispute this
- You'd take Hogan. I disagree, but hey, each to their own
- You think Hogan will be better. No worries, I don't think so, but its possible
- Daniher is the better player. Honestly you're out of your mind if you think otherwise, he clearly is

 

[Trav 20]

You have absolutely lost the plot mate.

Hogan, at 20/21 stacks up with the great key forwards.

I ask this question once and only once - do you want to back away, very quickly from that statement? Or is s**t about to get real messy?

Of course he does, fool.

Try matching his first 45 games against most of the great key forwards of the modern era, i.e. 1990. Clearly there's the odd freak like Buddy, who kicked 100 goals aged 21 in his 4th season.

Match his disposals, marks, contested marks, and goals.

I look forward to your homework.

Btw, for the third time do you agree Hogan is a better contested mark than Daniher ?

 

[Dez!]

After recent events I think Jesse will come back to footy in a much better head space than the start of the year, I definitely think that we'll be seeing a completely different young man take the field from here on out.

It might take him a while to get his footy touch back but I've got no doubt that being on the field with his mates again is really going to push him even higher.

Watch him go.

 

[Jade]

Of course he does, fool.

Try matching his first 45 games against most of the great key forwards of the modern era, i.e. 1990.

Not what you said though, was it?

I'll quote you again, because I'm a nice guy:

His level of play at 20/21 stacks up with nearly all the great modern key forwards.

So 20-21 eh?

You really should have just admitted you were wrong friend, this won't be pretty...

Matthew Lloyd

By the time his 21yo season had ended, Matthew Lloyd had already kicked 245 goals. Was also already a two time All-Australian, and had put together three seasons of 60+ goals in a row. He'd kicked 5 or more goals on 22, TWENTY ******* TWO, occasions. He'd already smashed 13 goals in a game. At 21. What the * even is that? How the * even is that?

Lance Franklin

By the time his 21yo season had ended, Buddy had 238 goals. TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY EIGHT GOALS. * me. At 21, this son of a bitch kicked 113 goals in a single ******* season. He was a Coleman medalist, an All-Australian, a premiership player, and just an all around level of s**t hot that - let's be fair, hasn't really left him since.

Matthew Richardson

By the end of his 21yo season, this sooky son of a bitch was an All-Australian, and had put through 205 of the sexiest goals you're likely to see. 17 times, seventeen ******* times, he'd smashed 5 goals or more, and the bloke had already achieved double figures in the Brownlow. And he's a Richmond player.

But of course, you meant the other modern day greats, right?

 

[Trav 20]

Not what you said though, was it?

I'll quote you again, because I'm a nice guy:



So 20-21 eh?

You really should have just admitted you were wrong friend, this won't be pretty...

Matthew Lloyd

By the time his 21yo season had ended, Matthew Lloyd had already kicked 245 goals. Was also already a two time All-Australian, and had put together three seasons of 60+ goals in a row. He'd kicked 5 or more goals on 22, TWENTY ******* TWO, occasions. He'd already smashed 13 goals in a game. At 21. What the **** even is that? How the **** even is that?

Lance Franklin

By the time his 21yo season had ended, Buddy had 238 goals. TWO HUNDRED AND THIRTY EIGHT GOALS. **** me. At 21, this son of a bitch kicked 113 goals in a single ******* season. He was a Coleman medalist, an All-Australian, a premiership player, and just an all around level of s**t hot that - let's be fair, hasn't really left him since.

Matthew Richardson

By the end of his 21yo season, this sooky son of a bitch was an All-Australian, and had put through 205 of the sexiest goals you're likely to see. 17 times, seventeen ******* times, he'd smashed 5 goals or more, and the bloke had already achieved double figures in the Brownlow. And he's a Richmond player.

But of course, you meant the other modern day greats, right?

Three ?

I'd already given you Franklin.

But yes, I meant 45 games, as opposed to age.

But well done you.

I suppose it really only highlights how slow Joe has been developing. At 23 he needed a move on didn't he ?

 

[Trav 20]

Which is why the fact that Daniher is a better player is causing a 'does not compute' in your mind.

Who's the better contested mark out of Daniher and Hogan ?

 

[Ambrosia]

Yeah you're deluded.

I just showed you that Daniher's 2017 stats are only marginally different to Hogan's career averages.

Btw, Daniher is averaging 1.5 contested marks per game in 2017, which is 25% below Hogan's career average of 2.1.

Do you dispute Hogan is a better contested mark ?

I do. Daniher's CM per game has dropped this year due to him now playing as a high CHF. When he was played as a predominantly deep forward (the role Hogan plays for the Demons) in 2016 he averaged 2.4 CM per game

 

[Trav 20]

I do. Daniher's CM per game has dropped this year due to him now playing as a high CHF. When he was played as a predominantly deep forward (the role Hogan plays for the Demons) in 2016 he averaged 2.4 CM per game

Clearly he's not and it can't be argued.

Career Joe 1.7, career Hogan 2.1.

Hogan averaged 2.4 contested marks per game in 2015, his first year. Daniher did it in 2016, his 4th year.

Hogan is clearly the superior contested mark.

 

[00Stinger]

but surely that's all you can go on.

On one hand you have potential and on the other you have performance. (I'm not trying to suggest Hogan is nothing but potential here, by the way - I'm talking about relative to Daniher's performance only.)

You may think, with good reason, that Hogan may be better, but until he actually is better he isn't better, does that make sense?

Although, I guess technically the OP title is "best moving forward" so I suppose potential has to be taken into account

No. My point is this is the first time Daniher has had a 10 week period where he has outperformed Hogan. It coincides with Hogan no playing due to cancer.

Im not saying Hogan will be better or worse than Daniher though. I was simply replying to a poster who said there can be NO argument than Hogan will be better than Daniher.



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[windyhill]

This is funny

 

[Lance Uppercut]

No. My point is this is the first time Daniher has had a 10 week period where he has outperformed Hogan. It coincides with Hogan no playing due to cancer.

Im not saying Hogan will be better or worse than Daniher though. I was simply replying to a poster who said there can be NO argument than Hogan will be better than Daniher.



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Sorry I'm a bit confused. Why is it a 10 week period?

Are you saying Hogan has been better than Daniher for 5 weeks of this year?

I've had a think and surely there's only one game that Hogan has outperformed Daniher this year when both played?

 

[00Stinger]

Sorry I'm a bit confused. Why is it a 10 week period?

Are you saying Hogan has been better than Daniher for 5 weeks of this year?

No just saying there was no massive difference either way in the first 5 rounds. Until he got for injured there wasn't much in it. Had a ripping 1st game v Saints With 21 & 3, 21 touches v Carlton & kicked 3 v Richmond. Then got cancer.

Tbf I dont think we should even be arguing. I agree Daniher has been better this year and you have agreed it could go either way long term. My arguement was with Jade saying there is NO arguement that Hogan could ever be better than Daniher and i am simply arguing that is nonsense



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[Lance Uppercut]

No just saying there was no massive difference either way in the first 5 rounds. Until he got for injured there wasn't much in it. Had a ripping 1st game v Saints With 21 & 3, 21 touches v Carlton & kicked 3 v Richmond. Then got cancer.

Tbf I dont think we should even be arguing. I agree Daniher has been better this year and you have agreed it could go either way long term. My arguement was with Jade saying there is NO arguement that Hogan could ever be better than Daniher and i am simply arguing that is nonsense



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Yeah that's fair enough. I think you know how highly I rate Hogan and personally I'm ******* thrilled he's back this week and it's one of the best footy stories this year. I hope he doesn't miss a beat for the next 18 months and we can compare them properly

 

[00Stinger]

Yeah that's fair enough. I think you know how highly I rate Hogan and personally I'm ******* thrilled he's back this week and it's one of the best footy stories this year. I hope he doesn't miss a beat for the next 18 months and we can compare them properly

Good to hear, we are on the same level. Both are the standout young kpfs imo. Funny considering they are so different in playing styles.

I think Daniher is a ripper too and it could go either way long term. Kid just needs to learn kick a bit straighter lol, but then again both have a few things to iron out long term

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[Ambrosia]

Clearly he's not and it can't be argued.

Career Joe 1.7, career Hogan 2.1.

Hogan averaged 2.4 contested marks per game in 2015, his first year. Daniher did it in 2016, his 4th year.

Hogan is clearly the superior contested mark.

Clearly he is. In their most recent full seasons Daniher averaged 2.4 CM to Hogan's 2.0 with both players having a similar role in their side.

Also your view of what constitutes a clear difference seems to change depending on what side you're trying to argue.

Here you say there is only a marginal difference between Hogan's career stats and Daniher's 2017 stats.

Even if we take Daniher's best year in 2017 and compare his stats with Hogan's career average there isn't a significant difference.

Disposals for Daniher in 2017: 15.8 Hogan's career average 14.2 (Difference of 1.6)
Marks for Daniher in 2017: 7 Hogan's career average 6.8 (Difference of 0.2)
Goals Daniher 2.7 Hogan career average 2.1 (Difference of 0.6)

The above stats show Daniher's 2017 is barely better than Hogan's career averages. The goal differences are minimal and Hogan will eat those up throughout 2018.

Yet when your boy Hogan averages 0.4 more contested marks per game he's the "clearly superior" mark.

Besides not all contested marks are equal and even you wouldn't try to argue against Daniher being the superior pack mark.

 

[Trav 20]

Clearly he is. In their most recent full seasons Daniher averaged 2.4 CM to Hogan's 2.0 with both players having a similar role in their side.

Also your view of what constitutes a clear difference seems to change depending on what side you're trying to argue.

Here you say there is only a marginal difference between Hogan's career stats and Daniher's 2017 stats.



Yet when your boy Hogan averages 0.4 more contested marks per game he's the "clearly superior" mark.

Besides not all contested marks are equal and even you wouldn't try to argue against Daniher being the superior pack mark.

I can't believe you're clutching at these straws.

Daniher is averaging 1.5 contested marks a game in his best season - 2017.

Hogan averages 2.1 over his career. Daniher 1.7.

Hogan dropped off last year as he weighed up his future and was dealing with a Father who had cancer, but still finished equal 9th in contested marks.

Hogan averaged 2.4 marks as a 20 year old.

So in Hogan's two completed seasons he's finished equal 9th and third.

In 2014 Daniher played 21 games and finished 22nd. He finished equal 14th in 2015 and 4 in 2016. This year Daniher is coming 21st.

Clearly, Hogan is a better and more consistent mark than Daniher. It's irrefutable.

 

[ManOfClay]

I love a good shitfight but Daniher is clearly better. Better attitude, can kick goals from more than 35m out, is 100x more agile and competitive