Streaming Better Call Saul - ** Contains Spoliers! **

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My theories (obviously feel free to disagree, would like a discussion in anticipation of the 2nd part of the final season)

  • Kim gets the vacuum salesman treatment - guilt of Howard's death is too much for her and she leaves Jimmy for good, completing the transition to Saul Goodman
  • Jimmy/Saul/Gene sees Kim at the very end in the final 'flash forward'
  • Howard's death ruled a suicide given his meltdown at HHM
  • Lalo gets outsmarted or unlucky against Gus (remember the gun he hid in the super meth lab) and he gets buried in the lab

Either way, what a great ride. I hope it continues until the very end.
 
I think they'll use vacuum salesman for Kim... but I don't think it will be straight forward.

Something like - Kim decides to use it, tells Jimmy about it and they have a genuine goodbye, but is killed before she gets picked up/during the process somehow. Jimmy thinks that she went off in to the sunset with a new identity but she's dead.

Ends with Kim dying, but Jimmy believing she's alive, hence him not having a full breakdown and eventually fully transitioning to Saul Goodman.
 

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Nostradumbass said:
The vacuum salesman just seems to obvious an ending for Kim.
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Plus the actor that played him has since passed away. She could leave off screen I suppose but I reckon they'd rewrite the scene similar to how they rewrote the start of the season to get most of Mark Margolis (Hector) scenes completed to lower his risk of catching covid on set.
 
Totally forgot about this episode last night until someone at my work was talking about breaking bad and it dawned on me, how could I forget. Doesn't matter I didn't see any spoilers but at least I knew I could watch it straight away when I got home. Wow what an ending wasn't expecting that, starting to think something was going to happen to Lalo but that's for later. I know it's silly but Howard reminds me Frank Grimes off the simpsons maybe it's the voice, his death reminds me of him as well, just a person that sick of being beaten and going loco starts ranting then he's dead.




kickazz said:
Seeds fair opinion to think the Howard sub plot as being a bit silly, but in its defence I recon they've straddled the serious with the comical pretty well here. Remember, Saul is first and foremost a rogueish scallywag and scamming is at the heart of his character.

I dare say this serves as an important turning point in character development too. Of all the theories about "what happens to Kim?" I think we have a new one on the table, potentially a clubhouse leader: guilt driven self destruction/withdrawal.

It's possible she feels so bad now that she needs to move on completely from this, and that includes leaving Jimmy behind.


That, or absconding to avoid heat for Howard's murder / disappearance
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Well the candle almost went out as lalo entered the building, candle in the wind stuff fir Jimmy and Kim, it's not out but it's close.
 
kickazz said:
Seeds fair opinion to think the Howard sub plot as being a bit silly, but in its defence I recon they've straddled the serious with the comical pretty well here. Remember, Saul is first and foremost a rogueish scallywag and scamming is at the heart of his character.

I dare say this serves as an important turning point in character development too. Of all the theories about "what happens to Kim?" I think we have a new one on the table, potentially a clubhouse leader: guilt driven self destruction/withdrawal.

It's possible she feels so bad now that she needs to move on completely from this, and that includes leaving Jimmy behind.


That, or absconding to avoid heat for Howard's murder / disappearance
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I don’t get why Kim or Saul would feel guilty for Howard’s death?

Yes they scammed him, but his death was just chance. He was wrong place at the wrong time. Hell, they had zero reason to suspect he would come to their place, let alone Lalo show up (who Saul at least thought was dead and we don’t know that Kim even believed Mike).

Btw, whilst Howard didn’t deserve to die at all I just don’t see that he was that sympathetic a character. He was still a toffy tool most of the time.
 
Kirby said:
Hell, they had zero reason to suspect he would come to their place, let alone Lalo show up (who Saul at least thought was dead and we don’t know that Kim even believed Mike).
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They were waiting for him to arrive.
 
Kirby said:
I don’t get why Kim or Saul would feel guilty for Howard’s death?

Yes they scammed him, but his death was just chance. He was wrong place at the wrong time.
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Chance or not Howard was only there
because of their scheming, hence the guilt.

Anyway FMD what an ep.
 

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TheGreatBarryB said:
Chance or not Howard was only there
because of their scheming, hence the guilt.

Anyway FMD what an ep.
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Agree the episode was great btw.

I just don’t agree on the guilt bit.
 
Kirby said:
Really? Saul and Kim were waiting for Howard?

I must have missed that.
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I just got that impression when Jimmy said 'you know we don't have to get it.' Kim replied with 'We should probably get this over with.' They knew him visiting that night was a likely outcome.
 
Read a great comment about the parallels between Howard and Chuck’s fates.

Chuck killed himself, but it was swept under the carpet. It’ll be the complete opposite for Howard, his death mistakenly taken as suicide, given the drug scheme set up by Jimmy and Kim.

I guess the head knock on the table as Howard fell was meant to make the comparison more direct.

Oh and the amazing foreshadowing with Howard twisting the can to ‘silence’ the drink, similar to something else in that final scene…
 
Carbine Chaos said:
I just got that impression when Jimmy said 'you know we don't have to get it.' Kim replied with 'We should probably get this over with.' They knew him visiting that night was a likely outcome.
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Hmmmm…..I don’t really buy that.

Thanks for answering though.
 
Cm Perfect said:
Kim doesn't hate Howard, he's the pretext (along with her 'doing pro-bono work' dream) for her to justify to herself enacting the grifts that she loves. Same as Jimmy. Same as Walt 'protecting his family'.
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Kim also viewed Howard as part of Chuck screwing with Jimmy around the time of Chucks death. At Chucks funeral Howard told Jimmy his (correct) theory that Chuck killed himself. When Kim went to pick up Jimmys portion of Chucks estate she viewed it as another screw you from Chuck from beyond the grave as the amount was miniscule but just enough to mean Jimmy couldn't contest it as well as a letter which Kim assumed was gonna be Chuck talking s**t about Jimmy again.

She then goes on from that to say Howard only told Jimmy his theory about Chuck to make Jimmy feel bad and so Howard could absolve his own guilt about Chucks death.

So as part of that she was blaming Chuck (and by extension Howard) for the bad things happening in Jimmys life around that time which blends into his current life when we know that alot of that Jimmy brought on himself.
 
corbies said:
Kim also viewed Howard as part of Chuck screwing with Jimmy around the time of Chucks death. At Chucks funeral Howard told Jimmy his (correct) theory that Chuck killed himself. When Kim went to pick up Jimmys portion of Chucks estate she viewed it as another screw you from Chuck from beyond the grave as the amount was miniscule but just enough to mean Jimmy couldn't contest it as well as a letter which Kim assumed was gonna be Chuck talking s**t about Jimmy again.

So as part of that scene she then says Howard only told Jimmy his theory about Chuck to make Jimmy feel bad and so Howard could absolve his own guilt about Chucks death.

So as part of that she was blaming Chuck (and by extension Howard) for the bad things happening in Jimmys life around that time which blends into his current life when we know that alot of that Jimmy brought on himself.
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Yes certainly that's all valid, but I don't think a reasonable person would enact the all-in career-ruining moves on Howard that J&K pulled simply as a response to those perceived slights (they would have stopped at the throwing bowling balls stuff); it's way over the top.

The show's genius lies in under-cutting your allegiances and sympathies towards the characters. Up till last night we've been led to believe Kim is fundamentally good and the 'conscience of the show' because of her pro-bono work and because we're pre-programmed as viewers to view the young idealistic female lawyer as a 'good' character.

My take away from this last ep is that Kim is just as ****ed up as Walt and Jimmy, and is driven by these malevolent desires for power and manipulation over people (with a sexual kink element thrown in too); 'you people have a piece missing' as Howard says.
 
Cm Perfect said:
Yes certainly that's all valid, but I don't think a reasonable person would enact the all-in career-ruining moves on Howard that J&K pulled simply as a response to those perceived slights (they would have stopped at the throwing bowling balls stuff); it's way over the top.

The show's genius lies in under-cutting your allegiances and sympathies towards the characters. Up till last night we've been led to believe Kim is fundamentally good and the 'conscience of the show' because of her pro-bono work and because we're pre-programmed as viewers to view the young idealistic female lawyer as a 'good' character.

My take away from this last ep is that Kim is just as ducked up as Walt and Jimmy, and is driven by these malevolent desires for power and manipulation over people (with a sexual kink element thrown in too); 'you people have a piece missing' as Howard says.
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Spot on.

The BB/BCS universe is so good because every character is flawed. Some people identify with Character A and can empathise with them, whilst some people don't like them at all from the get go. Skylar is a good example of that.

Up until now I was rooting for Jimmy and Kim. Now I want to know how Kim goes down and don't want her to get away with it. This of course may change again!

It's just really well done.
 
Cm Perfect said:
Yes certainly that's all valid, but I don't think a reasonable person would enact the all-in career-ruining moves on Howard that J&K pulled simply as a response to those perceived slights (they would have stopped at the throwing bowling balls stuff); it's way over the top.
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They weren’t career ruining moves though and they discussed this before enacting the plan. The plan had to be enough to achieve the goal of him stuffing up the Sandpiper deal but they specifically said in my recollection that it was not to be career ending (or words to that effect).

They achieved that as what happened with Howard would not end his career. He’s the Managing Partner, he’d face heat from the partnership but ride it out. The case still made the firm plenty. He didn’t break any laws, just made to look a fool.

Btw, those posters who keep saying Howard is some great guy seem to ignore the fact that he was prolonging the Sandpiper case for his own ends at the expense of his elderly and dying clients.
 
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