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Rod Stroker said:
What I'm most curious about after that ep is:
1) what was in the backpack
2) what ultimately causes Kim to leave the show / Jimmy's life
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I'm guessing the bloke with the bag was doing similar sorts of pick ups to what Mike and Jesse did in BB and this was his means of handover.

Could be off the mark but I'd say at this point in time Gus' dealings aren't nearly as streamlined and industrial as they are in the BB timeline so a hiding in plain sight handover of cash may have been how they did it.
 

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PhatBoy said:
I'm guessing the bloke with the bag was doing similar sorts of pick ups to what Mike and Jesse did in BB and this was his means of handover.

Could be off the mark but I'd say at this point in time Gus' dealings aren't nearly as streamlined and industrial as they are in the BB timeline so a hiding in plain sight handover of cash may have been how they did it.
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Cept they know Mike is onto them.
 
Rod Stroker said:
What I'm most curious about after that ep is:
1) what was in the backpack
2) what ultimately causes Kim to leave the show / Jimmy's life
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What makes people think she does leave his life?

Sure, they aren't in business together anymore, but just because Kim wasn't shown in BB doesn't mean she isn't around. Saul is only incidental in that show.

Be interesting to see where they go with it
 
Jimmy_the_Gent said:
And the logo on the office wall being "a little bit crooked", suggesting that Jimmy wont be legit lawyer forever.
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That to me was the line of the ep, when Francesca says that Jimmy's side was "a little bit crooked". Contrasted with Kim's side which wasn't crooked at all.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
What makes people think she does leave his life?

Sure, they aren't in business together anymore, but just because Kim wasn't shown in BB doesn't mean she isn't around. Saul is only incidental in that show.

Be interesting to see where they go with it
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She is a key character in the show and his life in BCS. Pretty evident that she leaves at some point given she wasn't in BB at all. Not even mentioned.
 
Rod Stroker said:
She is a key character in the show and his life in BCS. Pretty evident that she leaves at some point given she wasn't in BB at all. Not even mentioned.
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quite probably and that's the automatic assumption. But it's certainly not evident. In BB Saul only appeared in the context of, and in relation to, Walter and Jesse etc. There was absolutely zero focus on his private life. Therefore, in reality, there was no reason to show Kim. None whatsoever. She had nothing to do with the BB story, unlike Saul.

Look, clearly Kim is a very moral person, and it seems kind of logical that she is the angel on his shoulder in many ways, and thus once he's full blown Saul then maybe that's because she's no longer balancing him in that way. Or her departure for whatever reason is the catalyst for him finally becoming Saul. Or conversely, maybe his behaviour as Saul is what drives her away. All very likely.

But in the same way that she condoned Jimmy committing fraud to win back Mesa Verde despite her morality; and in the same way that Francesca clearly undergoes an enormous personality change, but no doubt incrementally, over the journey; there's any number of ways Kim can remain involved, so who's to say any of the above assumptions are actually right? [Edit: forgot the fact that Kim actually gets right into running scams with Jimmy. Like, she loves it...]

It's a bit like the assumptions that the grey footage of Gene is the end. Well I think E1 of this season demonstrated that it's not. That within Gene there's still Saul - and remember the SG initials he carved from the start of last season.

Gilligan and co are geniuses, and it wouldn't even remotely surprise me to see the show evolve in ways no-one expects - in fact you'd be crazy to think it wouldn't. I am certain that BCS will at some point get to where Saul runs and becomes Gene, and it will then continue on in Saul's life as to what happens next. The Saul Goodman comeback story might be on. Or something totally different may happen, but I very much doubt there's the closed ending most people think there is.

Kim is an amazing character, and I for one find it pretty hard to believe they are going to kill her off one way or another simply because she wasn't part of the BB story. And her not being part of that story is in no way even remotely conclusive proof that she disappears at some point.
 
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I like that viewed in isolation many scenes would appear quite dull and insignificant but each one conveys another layer of insight and there's subtleties that can be missed if you're not paying attention. I missed the crooked sign bit for example

The interview with Francesca was great. Jimmy was all impatient and bored with the tedium of it all as he rocked in his chair. No interest in her qualifications just how she would treat the old people. Kim much more methodical and wanting to stay with the process.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
quite probably and that's the automatic assumption. But it's certainly not evident. In BB Saul only appeared in the context of, and in relation to, Walter and Jesse etc. There was absolutely zero focus on his private life. Therefore, in reality, there was no reason to show Kim. None whatsoever. She had nothing to do with the BB story, unlike Saul.

Look, clearly Kim is a very moral person, and it seems kind of logical that she is the angel on his shoulder in many ways, and thus once he's full blown Saul then maybe that's because she's no longer balancing him in that way. Or her departure for whatever reason is the catalyst for him finally becoming Saul. Or conversely, maybe his behaviour as Saul is what drives her away. All very likely.

But in the same way that she condoned Jimmy committing fraud to win back Mesa Verde despite her morality; and in the same way that Francesca clearly undergoes an enormous personality change, but no doubt incrementally, over the journey; there's any number of ways Kim can remain involved, so who's to say any of the above assumptions are actually right? [Edit: forgot the fact that Kim actually gets right into running scams with Jimmy. Like, she loves it...]

It's a bit like the assumptions that the grey footage of Gene is the end. Well I think E1 of this season demonstrated that it's not. That within Gene there's still Saul - and remember the SG initials he carved from the start of last season.

Gilligan and co are geniuses, and it wouldn't even remotely surprise me to see the show evolve in ways no-one expects - in fact you'd be crazy to think it wouldn't. I am certain that BCS will at some point get to where Saul runs and becomes Gene, and it will then continue on in Saul's life as to what happens next. The Saul Goodman comeback story might be on. Or something totally different may happen, but I very much doubt there's the closed ending most people think there is.

Kim is an amazing character, and I for one find it pretty hard to believe they are going to kill her off one way or another simply because she wasn't part of the BB story. And her not being part of that story is in no way even remotely conclusive proof that she disappears at some point.
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If I was a betting man, I'd say that it gets to a point that Kim no longer wants Jimmy in her life. Or worse, he does something that gets her killed. We know the shady path that Jimmy/Saul ends up going down. I think she decides that it's not for her, and cuts him loose. But I could be wrong.
 
Rod Stroker said:
If I was a betting man, I'd say that it gets to a point that Kim no longer wants Jimmy in her life. Or worse, he does something that gets her killed. We know the shady path that Jimmy/Saul ends up going down. I think she decides that it's not for her, and cuts him loose. But I could be wrong.
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it's most certainly a strong possibility. It wouldn't surprise in any way that Kim's absence, one way or another, is instrumental in him becoming Saul. * that would be dark, if it turned out that he killed her somehow.

My rationale for thinking it may be otherwise is clearly only a guess, but it's based on the fact that Jimmy is already somewhat on the path to becoming Saul (the car, the shirts when he tried to get fired from HHM - such a good moment that!), and there's already a clear trigger for the accelerated trajectory, in Chuck and the way he's ****ed him - ie the orange jumpsuit coming up - and the significance of the brother betrayal to Saul.

So there's already sufficient ingredients for the Saul metamorphosis, and given I tend to think it will happen sooner rather than later (based on him going to jail, the appearance of Gus, which indicates the time periods are close to starting to overlap), I simply can't believe they would write Kim out so soon. Let's say, BCS goes for 8 seasons, and we're now in S3, and let's say he is full blown Saul by next season - that's fully half the series without one of the absolute stars and everyone's favourite, including Gilligan etc.

And honestly, I think they've given us enough clues to suggest that, as moral as Kim is, that she will probably change too. They are, imo:
  • The fact that she loved running scams with Jimmy - it clearly made her feel alive
  • That she condones his fraudulent behaviour re Mesa Verde, even if unhappily
  • That they have just shown us Francesca - but crucially a totally different Francesca, with a personality that makes it obvious she is going to change enormously
A recurring theme of BCS seems to me to be personal change, and Jimmy changes those he's in contact with (except Mike!). Kim would likely never be a crook - only Jimmy is a bit crooked, not her - but the love of the scam and the change of Francesca are very telling imo.

And frankly, the writers clearly adore her if you read any interviews. And they hate being obvious. If I was a betting man I'd bet she's a part of his journey ongoing into BB territory. Can't wait to see hey!
 
I can see Gene reaching out to find Kim if they take BCS into post BB territory - to me it's more likely that Kim and Jimmy have a falling out and part ways than Kim dying
 

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Rod Stroker said:
If I was a betting man, I'd say that it gets to a point that Kim no longer wants Jimmy in her life. Or worse, he does something that gets her killed. We know the shady path that Jimmy/Saul ends up going down. I think she decides that it's not for her, and cuts him loose. But I could be wrong.
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Same. I think she becomes collateral damage somehow ...somewhere.
 
I'm assuming Chuck will die and Kim will live but simply leave Jimmy.

Both will destroy him in different ways. In fact in a lot of ways Kim leaving of her own volition would be worse for Jimmy than her being killed.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
how good was the foreshadowing with the street signs. Dead End and Speed Hump Ahead. Genius.

I also love how you could see Gus in the background, as Jimmy made is super obvious how suss he was, and then Fring cancelled the meet as a result. And how good to see non-jaded Francesca??? Hilarious! "That one really didn't want to talk about Cracker Biscuit!"
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and then Fring cancelled the meet as a result
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You'd think a relatively successful conman/grifter like Jimmy would be as inconspicuous as possible in a simple stake out. How 'amateurishly' he behaved in that scene was too out of character for me, even Blind Freddy would've noticed how blatantly shifty he was acting.

I also find it hard to believe that it didn't cross Jimmy's mind that the person he was supposed to be watching could be involved in some deep criminal activity for Mike to rope him into it hence being casual and cool was of utmost importance for not getting his cover blown. Mike should've at least made it very clear that getting busted was not an option.

I guess the writers needed Jimmy to be sprung for Fring to call off the drop off and hoped fans of the show would just accept that a suave conman would be that daft and clumsy.
 
Connoisseur said:
You'd think a relatively successful conman/grifter like Jimmy would be as inconspicuous as possible in a simple stake out. How 'amateurishly' he behaved in that scene was too out of character for me, even Blind Freddy would've noticed how blatantly shifty he was acting.

I also find it hard to believe that it didn't cross Jimmy's mind that the person he was supposed to be watching could be involved in some deep criminal activity for Mike to rope him into it hence being casual and cool was of utmost importance for not getting his cover blown. Mike should've at least made it very clear that getting busted was not an option.

I guess the writers needed Jimmy to be sprung for Fring to call off the drop off and hoped fans of the show would just accept that a suave conman would be that daft and clumsy.
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Well no, because the whole genius about a chicken shop owner bring a meth king us that no one would ever think of it.

You're actually bringing your own knowledge to bear and then complaining that Jimmy doesn't have it too.

In reality Jimmy thought that the chicken shop was an anonymous meet venue and the only people he had to worry about was the mark and whoever he was meeting, which normally would have been obvious.

He had no possible reason to suspect staff there and it's ridiculous you think he should have
 
Lance Uppercut said:
Well no, because the whole genius about a chicken shop owner bring a meth king us that no one would ever think of it.

You're actually bringing your own knowledge to bear and then complaining that Jimmy doesn't have it too.

In reality Jimmy thought that the chicken shop was an anonymous meet venue and the only people he had to worry about was the mark and whoever he was meeting, which normally would have been obvious.

He had no possible reason to suspect staff there and it's ridiculous you think he should have
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You're actually bringing your own knowledge to bear and then complaining that Jimmy doesn't have it too.
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I actually put most of the blame on Mike for failing to inform Jimmy on just how seriously he had to approach the surveillance 'job' favour he was asking of him. Never-the-less I still felt Jimmy wasn't his usual cool, calm, collected self. He came across as a jittery first timer who had no idea how to blend in to a crowd. Like I said very out of character for a smooth conman such as Jimmy.



In reality Jimmy thought that the chicken shop was an anonymous meet venue and the only people he had to worry about was the mark and whoever he was meeting, which normally would have been obvious.

He had no possible reason to suspect staff there and it's ridiculous you think he should have
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The expensive high tech tracking device, the sophisticated secret delivery routes, etc.... all pointed to the involvement of a well organized criminal group.

A guy as smart as Mike is supposed to be should have concluded that there would be other people on the look out for suspicious individuals around the drop off area.

It's unlikely that they were merely smuggling illegal fireworks for the 4th of July celebrations so I'm baffled as to why he didn't sternly warn Jimmy about giving himself away that easily.

Personally I never thought Jimmy was the man for the job in the first place. So it came off to me as a contrived plot device to segue Fring into the story. It was a bit jarring it's all saying because it made both main characters (in particular Mike) dumber than they are portrayed to be, at least IMO.
 
Mike probably thought the more Jimmy knew the more likely he'd be to * it up.
 
Connoisseur said:
I actually put most of the blame on Mike for failing to inform Jimmy on just how seriously he had to approach the surveillance 'job' favour he was asking of him. Never-the-less I still felt Jimmy wasn't his usual cool, calm, collected self. He came across as a jittery first timer who had no idea how to blend in to a crowd. Like I said very out of character for a smooth conman such as Jimmy.





The expensive high tech tracking device, the sophisticated secret delivery routes, etc.... all pointed to the involvement of a well organized criminal group.

A guy as smart as Mike is supposed to be should have concluded that there would be other people on the look out for suspicious individuals around the drop off area.

It's unlikely that they were merely smuggling illegal fireworks for the 4th of July celebrations so I'm baffled as to why he didn't sternly warn Jimmy about giving himself away that easily.

Personally I never thought Jimmy was the man for the job in the first place. So it came off to me as a contrived plot device to segue Fring into the story. It was a bit jarring it's all saying because it made both main characters (in particular Mike) dumber than they are portrayed to be, at least IMO.
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who else would Mike have used, though?
 
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