Better Duo. Bont & Macrae. Petracca & Oliver.

[go the dogs]

Who is the better duo. Feel like Bont and Petracca are similar players as are Oliver and Macrae.

 

[schmuttt]

Bont > Oliver > McRae = Petracca

 

[X_box_X]

Before I voted Oliver and Petracca had 50% of the votes. Wow!!!

 

[juss]

Could see this one changing year on year depending on who's in better form.

Both elite 1-2 punches.

 

[00Stinger]

After last night the debate is settled

I'll take the two that clearly won the battle on the greatest day of all

And they are younger

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

 

[danster168]

Macrae has no hurt factor compared to the other 3. He's bloody slow and weak.

 

[Pee Tear Griffin]

Obviously a bit of bias here but I think Petracca & Oliver are the better duo because they're more explosive. Speed and power kills.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

The only way we could gauge this if they went head to head in the centre square during an extremely tight third quarter of a grand final. They're so evenly matched it would be a gripping duel. Can't imagine either pair getting on top of the other.

 

[adammania9]

As an outsider, I think Dunkley and Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

most closely share the traits that Petracca and Oliver do, and if I were the Bulldogs I'd be shifting the chess pieces around quite a bit this off-season and building a best inside trio of Smith, Dunkley and Libba - a trio I believe has the potential to be one of the very best going around, and that's without including Bont and Macrae, the two most skilled mids they have (with Treloar and Hunter providing depth). I reckon that would give them a massive chance of having the best midfield group in the comp, and win the flag

 

[Trav 20]

As an outsider, I think Dunkley and Bailey Smith most closely share the traits that Petracca and Oliver do, and if I were the Bulldogs I'd be shifting the chess pieces around quite a bit this off-season and building a best inside trio of Smith, Dunkley and Libba - a trio I believe has the potential to be one of the very best going around, and that's without including Bont and Macrae, the two most skilled mids they have (with Treloar and Hunter providing depth). I reckon that would give them a massive chance of having the best midfield group in the comp, and win the flag

I don't think any team wants Dunkley trying to hit up a target in the F50. He can't kick.

 

[Samdogg]

After last night the debate is settled

Nope.

 

[Blackas87]

Nope.

After Bont and Macrae looked absolutely helpless against Trac and Oliver as they ran riot, would be interested to hear why you think the Dogs pair are superior to the Dees duo instead of just the word nope.

 

[Tulip]

After Bont and Macrae looked absolutely helpless against Trac and Oliver as they ran riot, would be interested to hear why you think the Dogs pair are superior to the Dees duo instead of just the word nope.

Nope.

 

[Samdogg]

After Bont and Macrae looked absolutely helpless against Trac and Oliver as they ran riot, would be interested to hear why you think the Dogs pair are superior to the Dees duo instead of just the word nope.

Because it's just one game. More specifically, one and a half quarters of football.
Petracca and Oliver looked absolutely helpless in the second quarter as Bontempelli ran riot; was Bontempelli certifiably better than both of them based on 15 minutes of football? And what, this entire perception changes based on another 15 minutes of football?
Is Shannon Grant better than the entire Carlton list of 1999 on the basis of being the Norm Smith medalist in a thumping win? Will Shaun Hart go down as a better player than James Hird? Then you have Andrew Embley in 2006, Byron Pickett in 2004, Ryan O'Keefe in 2012, Jason Johannisen in 2016 and I could go on.

One game is one game. It was only a few weeks back that Bontempelli absolutely toweled up Melbourne at the MCG, something he's done several times throughout his career, will no doubt continue to do, and which has no doubt played a part in developing the chips on the shoulder of many Melbourne supporters, who are now more keen than ever to bump threads on this board.

Here's the reality: All four players in this comparison have their strengths, and neither pair is conclusively better than the other. Petracca and Oliver are stronger and more powerful, Bontempelli and Macrae clearly boast the superior skills, especially foot skills.

 

[Blackas87]

Because it's just one game. More specifically, one and a half quarters of football.
Petracca and Oliver looked absolutely helpless in the second quarter as Bontempelli ran riot; was Bontempelli certifiably better than both of them based on 15 minutes of football?
Is Shannon Grant better than the entire Carlton list of 1999 on the basis of being the Norm Smith medalist in a thumping win? Will Shaun Hart go down as a better player than James Hird? Then you have Andrew Embley in 2006, Byron Pickett in 2004, Ryan O'Keefe in 2012, Jason Johannisen in 2016 and I could go on.

One game is one game. It was only a few weeks back that Bontempelli absolutely towelled up Melbourne at the MCG, something he's done several times through out his career, and has no doubt contributed to developing the chips on the shoulder of many Melbourne supporters, who are now more keen than ever to bump threads on this board.

Here's the reality: All four players in this comparison have their strengths, and neither pair is conclusively better than the other. Petracca and Oliver are stronger and more powerful, Bontempelli and Macrae clearly boast the superior skills, especially foot skills.

It wasn’t just one game. It was a Grand Final. Melbourne went 100-7. Bont and Macrae didn’t put Melbourne away.

Oliver literally went to Bontempelli during the 3rd and 4th quarters and nullified him.

Oliver won the coaches award this year, Petracca has had a dominant couple of years, you really competing them to Jason Johannisen? The Melbourne duo were already top 5-10 players in the league, it’s not just one game but in the biggest game of the year their style showed much superiority to the Dogs two.

 

[Samdogg]

It wasn’t just one game.

No matter how desperately you try to dress it up, it's still one game.
Nick Riewoldt played three poor Grand Finals; is his career as a footballer defined entirely by those three games? Such a dumb post.

Oliver won the coaches award this year, Petracca has had a dominant couple of years, you really competing them to Jason Johannisen? The Melbourne duo were already top 5-10 players in the league, it’s not just one game but in the biggest game of the year their style showed much superiority to the Dogs two.

I brought Johannisen up because you're using a Grand Final performance alone to claim two players are conclusively better than another two players. You've followed it up by making a false equivalence.

I know you're desperate (extremely desperate) for validation, especially when comparing Demon players to Bulldogs players, but you don't really have a strong case here. Petracca/Oliver aren't conclusively better than Bontempelli/Macrae based on a Grand Final the same way Tom Boyd isn't a better player than Nick Riewoldt under the same moronic line of reasoning.

 

[Blackas87]

No matter how desperately you try to dress it up, it's still one game.
Nick Riewoldt played three poor Grand Finals; is his career as a footballer defined entirely by those three games? Such a dumb post.


I brought Johannisen up because you're using a Grand Final performance alone to claim two players are conclusively better than another two players. You've followed it up by making a false equivalence.

I know you're desperate (extremely desperate) for validation, especially when comparing Demon players to Bulldogs players, but you don't really have a strong case here. Petracca/Oliver aren't conclusively better than Bontempelli/Macrae based on a Grand Final the same way Tom Boyd isn't a better player than Nick Riewoldt under the same moronic line of reasoning.

False equivalence lol.

Petracca and Oliver were leading this poll before the Grand Final. Then the Grand Final happened.

 

[00Stinger]

After reading some of the quality posts here I have learnt one important thing.

The Grand Final is just another game and winning the Norm Smith is no more important than being BOG in a 150 point win v Gold Coast as they are both just one game.

Which makes me wonder why so many people were celebrating the win on Saturday night

 

[Samdogg]

After reading some of the quality posts here I have learnt one important thing.

The Grand Final is just another game and winning the Norm Smith is no more important than being BOG in a 150 point win v Gold Coast as they are both just one game.

Which makes me wonder why so many people were celebrating the win on Saturday night

Yet another strawman, all because you failed miserably to make a good argument.

 

[Blackas87]

Because it's just one game.

Stats over the 2021 season in favour of the Dees pair. Yes the dogs pair has better disposal efficiency but they don’t take game on as much as the Melbourne duo do.

- Score involvements per game: 15.5 - 14.4 (from lower scoring team)
- Contested possessions per game: 31.4 - 24.6
- Clearances per game: 13.7 - 12.3
- Centre clearances per game: 5.7 - 5.3
- Stoppage clearances per game: 8.0 - 7.0
- Inside 50’s 12.0 - 11.8
- Total goals Goals: 40 - 37 (Dees duo played 25 games each, Dogs pair played 26 games each)

 

[Samdogg]

Stats over the 2021 season in favour of the Dees pair. Yes the dogs pair has better disposal efficiency but they don’t take game on as much as the Melbourne duo do.

- Score involvements per game: 15.5 - 14.4 (from lower scoring team)
- Contested possessions per game: 31.4 - 24.6
- Clearances per game: 13.7 - 12.3
- Centre clearances per game: 5.7 - 5.3
- Stoppage clearances per game: 8.0 - 7.0
- Inside 50’s 12.0 - 11.8
- Total goals Goals: 40 - 37 (Dees duo played 25 games each, Dogs pair played 26 games each)

No, just stats you selectively choose to fit your narrative. Notice you've cited three statistics for clearances; it's almost like players who specialize in stoppages are likely to get more clearances than players with a more rounded game. Is Tom Liberatore better than all four players now?

The fact is, both Bontempelli and Macrae are significantly more damaging by foot than both Oliver and Petracca, and for a midfielder, that counts for a lot. I'm not going to claim that conclusively makes them better players (only stupid people make statements like that), but nevertheless, it clearly illustrates there is room for debate.

 

[Blackas87]

No, just stats you selectively choose to fit your narrative. Notice you've cited three statistics for clearances; it's almost like players who specialize in stoppages are likely to get more clearances than players with a more rounded game. Is Tom Liberatore better than all four players now?

The fact is, both Bontempelli and Macrae are significantly more damaging by foot than both Oliver and Petracca, and for a midfielder, that counts for a lot. I'm not going to claim that conclusively makes them better players (only stupid people make statements like that), but nevertheless, it clearly illustrates there is room for debate.

There is a difference between centre clearances and stoppage clearances, some excel at one and not the other.

Selective stats or import stats? Could of had marks which the Melbourne guys lead as well but didn’t they were as important. Pressure acts are probably important in favour of the Melbourne duo 46.8 - 41.2

You saying Bont and Macrae are Significantly more damaging by foot, that alone is up for debate. They have better disposal efficiency sure but are they more damaging?

The Melbourne pair kick more goals, more inside 50’s, more score involvements, more score launches ect.. at a lower scoring team. They are more direct in where they kick the ball to more damaging spots.

I don’t think what you claim as a fact is a fact.

 

[Samdogg]

There is a difference between centre clearances and stoppage clearances, some excel at one and not the other.

Sure, whatever helps you fuel your agenda. I guess Clayton Oliver must be better than Libba after all because he averages 0.09 more stoppage clearances, although he has a better ruckman to work with too.

Selective stats or import stats? Could of had marks which the Melbourne guys lead as well but didn’t they were as important. Pressure acts are probably important in favour of the Melbourne duo 46.8 - 41.2

Yes, you are being selective. You're citing statistics that would clearly favor inside midfielders like Petracca and Oliver.

You saying Bont and Macrae are Significantly more damaging by foot, that alone is up for debate. They have better disposal efficiency sure but are they more damaging?

LOL

The Melbourne pair kick more goals, more inside 50’s, more score involvements, more score launches ect.. at a lower scoring team. They are more direct in where they kick the ball to more damaging spots.

Score involvements, which include goals resulting from clearance, including centre-clearances with the 6-6-6 rule.
Meanwhile Macrae came 2nd in the direct assist stat, and is widely renown for his damage by foot and ability to hit targets with a high degree of difficulty.

I don’t think what you claim as a fact is a fact.

Of course you don't, you're a one-eyed Melbourne supporter. You insist there be no debate, even though your arguments are terrible.

 

[Mahama]

The Melbourne pair kick more goals, more inside 50’s, more score involvements, more score launches ect.. at a lower scoring team. They are more direct in where they kick the ball to more damaging spots.

You accidentally left out all the stats that Bont and Macrae are ahead in. If you're using stats to make a point about damaging disposals, Kicks, Kicking Efficiency, Kick:Handball Ratio, Metres Gained, Turnovers and Goal Assists are a few more you might like to include.

 

[Blackas87]

Sure, whatever helps you fuel your agenda. I guess Clayton Oliver must be better than Libba after all because he averages 0.09 more stoppage clearances, although he has a better ruckman to work with too.

It’s a fair argument that Libba is a better at winning a clearance.

Yes, you are being selective. You're citing statistics that would clearly favor inside midfielders like Petracca and Oliver.

Goals clearly favour inside mids?

LOL


Score involvements, which include goals resulting from clearance, including centre-clearances with the 6-6-6 rule.
Meanwhile Macrae came 2nd in the direct assist stat, and is widely renown for his damage by foot and ability to hit targets with a high degree of difficulty.

Why do you think being damaging from a clearance doesn’t count as being damaging? This what separates Oliver from Libba, Oliver is far more damaging out of a clearance. Oliver is Melbourne’s number one clearance player but he’s not Melbourne number one score involvement player, Petracca is (also league wide) there is more to the score involvements than clearances.

Of course you don't, you're a one-eyed Melbourne supporter. You insist there be no debate, even though your arguments are terrible.

Of course though you are a one-eyed Bulldogs supporter. You’ll insist there is no debate on which duo is more damaging. You’re argument was “lol”