Bevan & NOG

[Tedeski]

Luke Ablett should be left alone. I'm sure I read somewhere that he had a pretty severe virus over the summer & was unable to train for most of it. Buchanan should be kept on the list as well because this group of players represent the next level of players that will take us to the next successful era. It's hard to get 'hardnuts' into a club. Not many of our youngsters can be classfied as hardnuts with perhaps Bird looking the most likely.

More then any other year under Roos, we seem to have a fitness problem, as we are not running out many games after being in winning positions in many of them.
Here is a list of games where we looked like winning after getting to the lead.
Rd 5 Freo. Rd 11 Haw. Rd 12 Collingwood. Rd 13 Adelaide. Rd 16 Carlton.
In these games we actually were on top of our opponents. they just kicked easy goals in a succession which normally means a team has dropped their intensity. That's us!!

Even against Geelong & the Bulldogs, we showed that we can mix it for a fair portion of the match. This means we have the gameplan to be successfull again but we just need the youngsters to have it drummed into them. Just like in 2003 & 2004!
It has taken Ross Lyon 3 years to get a similar gameplan drummed into his players heads, though with a much more talented list.
So we mustn't lose sight of what Roos can achieve here with this next group. we must give he & his assitants every chance to get us back to the required level to challenge for the flag again!
2010 won't be as bad as the 'experts' may think.
Even this year, as bad as we may have played & with the amounts of injuries not enabling us to have a settled lineup, we are still sitting only 2 games from the 8! should we manage wins against Melbourne & Richmond in the next 3 weeks, that will have us with 8 wins with 3 to play. Hardly a bad year if you compare it to those teams below us ATM.
How bad Freo...........West Coast...............Melbourne..........Richmond!

Even North! But excuses are for some reason always made for some of these teams by the media. Perhaps this is because of the high standard we have recently set for ourselves as a club!

Anyway..............just a few of my thoughts looking forward!
Cheers!

 

[BIGBEZ]

I agree with this. The problem is, we have too many defensive bullockers. Kirk, Bolton, Jack, even O'Keefe all play this role (just have a look at O'Keefe's contested possession, clearance and tackle counts this year). Even McVeigh still sometimes plays as an offensively-minded tagger. Ablett doesn't fit into the side anymore, at least not in his traditional role. He has been tried as an extractor, with little success. He has been tried up forward, also with little success. At his best, he is like a wrecking ball, breaking things up and forcing a contest whenever the opposition look like taking possession, even if he's not the one who wins the stat in the end, but there's no room for him in that role any more. What he needs is a trade to a side that DOES need that sort of player.

Ok ill resort to a stats comparison with Bolts for arguments sake on saturday, Bolts had only 3 more possies than Ablett, those were during the time Ablett was looking good early but left the field after a head clash to get stitches on the inside of his mouth and came straight back on to fight, Bolts had '5' more 'UN contested possies than Ablett, Ablett also kicked a goal! Seriously, he is a valuable contributer and I really dont understand the hate!

 

[CAS79]

Ok ill resort to a stats comparison with Bolts for arguments sake on saturday, Bolts had only 3 more possies than Ablett, those were during the time Ablett was looking good early but left the field after a head clash to get stitches on the inside of his mouth and came straight back on to fight, Bolts had '5' more 'UN contested possies than Ablett, Ablett also kicked a goal! Seriously, he is a valuable contributer and I really dont understand the hate!

Agree with Bez on Ablett.

It's not his year but it went wrong right at the start. The pre season was all but a right off add injuries and other issues where his mind wasn’t on the game.

Ablett adds something to our games out wide, he is struggling for a full gallop atm, he's no champion either but contributes. Tried hard on Saturday but he did run out of legs. Im reluctant to give up a good horse in need of a gallop before he brings it all toghether.

 

[disgruntled goat]

Abletts defensive and bullocking work is great and very valuable to our team as is Judes, and im very surprised at comments in this thread, obviously pimple nosed dreamteamers and supercoaches that go by stats and dont understand good old fashioned in and under football!

There needs to be more to a player than just "in and under" and the fact you're not recognising that renders your comments as ignorant as any "pimple nosed dreamteamer".

 

[bedford]

I have always defended Nogy but i think his time is up. His bullocking work has been his best feature and covered up his poor disposal, even in the warm ups on Saturday he was missing targets and shots AT goal. I have watched him from his days at Port and thought he would actually be a better player than what he has been.
Bevan i have also put up with because of his hardness, but he cost us two goals early against Carlton and made mistakes that my u/12 team would make.

 

[disgruntled goat]

I have always defended Nogy but i think his time is up. His bullocking work has been his best feature and covered up his poor disposal, even in the warm ups on Saturday he was missing targets and shots AT goal. I have watched him from his days at Port and thought he would actually be a better player than what he has been.
Bevan i have also put up with because of his hardness, but he cost us two goals early against Carlton and made mistakes that my u/12 team would make.

You play in an under-12s team? That's hardly fair.

 

[BIGBEZ]

There needs to be more to a player than just "in and under" and the fact you're not recognising that renders your comments as ignorant as any "pimple nosed dreamteamer".

my 'pimple faced dreamteamer' crack was just light hearted but youve taken me out of context if you think im ignorent, there is much more to Ablett than 'just' his in and under skills and as been said many times, there have been 'genuine' reasons for his off games, I believe he can get back to his best if not better, thats just my opinion, at the very least im sure it rubs off on the kids..

 

[disgruntled goat]

my 'pimple faced dreamteamer' crack was just light hearted but youve taken me out of context if you think im ignorent, there is much more to Ablett than 'just' his in and under skills and as been said many times, there have been 'genuine' reasons for his off games, I believe he can get back to his best if not better, thats just my opinion, at the very least im sure it rubs off on the kids..

Not out of context at all.

 

[BIGBEZ]

Not out of context at all.

ok out grammar me all you want, but my point is I didnt say that was his 'only' attribute which you imply by calling me ignorant..

 

[bungee]

Luke Ablett should be left alone. I'm sure I read somewhere that he had a pretty severe virus over the summer & was unable to train for most of it. Buchanan should be kept on the list as well because this group of players represent the next level of players that will take us to the next successful era. It's hard to get 'hardnuts' into a club. Not many of our youngsters can be classfied as hardnuts with perhaps Bird looking the most likely.

More then any other year under Roos, we seem to have a fitness problem, as we are not running out many games after being in winning positions in many of them.
Here is a list of games where we looked like winning after getting to the lead.
Rd 5 Freo. Rd 11 Haw. Rd 12 Collingwood. Rd 13 Adelaide. Rd 16 Carlton.
In these games we actually were on top of our opponents. they just kicked easy goals in a succession which normally means a team has dropped their intensity. That's us!!

Even against Geelong & the Bulldogs, we showed that we can mix it for a fair portion of the match. This means we have the gameplan to be successfull again but we just need the youngsters to have it drummed into them. Just like in 2003 & 2004!
It has taken Ross Lyon 3 years to get a similar gameplan drummed into his players heads, though with a much more talented list.
So we mustn't lose sight of what Roos can achieve here with this next group. we must give he & his assitants every chance to get us back to the required level to challenge for the flag again!
2010 won't be as bad as the 'experts' may think.
Even this year, as bad as we may have played & with the amounts of injuries not enabling us to have a settled lineup, we are still sitting only 2 games from the 8! should we manage wins against Melbourne & Richmond in the next 3 weeks, that will have us with 8 wins with 3 to play. Hardly a bad year if you compare it to those teams below us ATM.
How bad Freo...........West Coast...............Melbourne..........Richmond!

Even North! But excuses are for some reason always made for some of these teams by the media. Perhaps this is because of the high standard we have recently set for ourselves as a club!

Anyway..............just a few of my thoughts looking forward!
Cheers!

Well said. Saints had the same problems until they nicked our fitness guru, Now we are the ones who can't get our best 22 on the field. NOG & Monty both have had fitness/injury clouds over their seasons this year. Both are young enough to improve given a good run, both are invaluable IMO for an injection of hardness into a young team. Monty's forward 50 pressure alone is exceptional. He may not kick so many goals but that's the kind of thing that gives others a second chance. Remember it was Buchanan's excellent and determined run and chase that gave Jack a chance to win by a kick. He may not be the fastest but he has a big tank and he gives it all. And no, putting enough pressure on to cause a turnover is not a stat.

It's not favourship by Roos that keeps these guys in the team. His leadership group would be pretty quick to demand that any unserviceable players are dropped. Obviously they see the value of these players.

Look, generational change is happening, in a controlled fashion. Let's not demand the babies be thrown out with the bath water.

 

[Dangas]

Think Ablett's career stats say alot about him

Career Highs
Career Highs
Disposals 28 v Essendon, 5th Aug 2006
Kicks 20 v Essendon, 5th Aug 2006
Handballs 13 v Port Adelaide, 24th May 2009
Marks 8 v Brisbane, 9th Apr 2005
Goals 2 v Port Adelaide, 20th May 2007 *
Tackles 9 v Fremantle, 25th Apr 2009
Hitouts 5 v Geelong, 30th Jun 2007

Despite being a permanent onballer has never had 30 dsiposals in a game, nor has he offered anything offensively with a career high of 2 goals

Before anyone chips in with a comment about his bullocking and defensive work, I point them in the direction of Jude Bolton who plays a similar role yet manages to offer alot more offensively than Ablett ever has

Must be the luckiest bloke on an AFL list regularly getting a game

CAREER LOW:

Nearly costing us the game in the 2005 Grand Final when he took a great one-handed mark in defence during the final term, but then kicked across the face of goal and turning the ball over into Ben Cousins' hands for a goal. Very lucky man!

 

[bedford]

CAREER LOW:

Nearly costing us the game in the 2005 Grand Final when he took a great one-handed mark in defence during the final term, but then kicked across the face of goal and turning the ball over into Ben Cousins' hands for a goal. Very lucky man!

Turn it up , going back to that one. every player makes mistakes and to bring that up i not on. He deserved his spot in that team and up to this year has deserved his spot, but at the moment he is struggling badly. But i would rather a player of his commmitment than a chunky 5ft 10 slow, miss easy shots AT goal player like Moore.

 

[Dangas]

Turn it up , going back to that one. every player makes mistakes and to bring that up i not on. He deserved his spot in that team and up to this year has deserved his spot, but at the moment he is struggling badly. But i would rather a player of his commmitment than a chunky 5ft 10 slow, miss easy shots AT goal player like Moore.

What has NoG done in the past couple of games to keep his spot in the team ahead of the likes of MoD, Laidlaw, Brabazon, Thornton, etc?

 

[bedford]

Have a look back at post 30# in this thread and then come back to me Danny boy.

 

[Dangas]

Have a look back at post 30# in this thread and then come back to me Danny boy.

Alright, fair call

 

[Caj]

Ok ill resort to a stats comparison with Bolts for arguments sake on saturday, Bolts had only 3 more possies than Ablett, those were during the time Ablett was looking good early but left the field after a head clash to get stitches on the inside of his mouth and came straight back on to fight, Bolts had '5' more 'UN contested possies than Ablett, Ablett also kicked a goal! Seriously, he is a valuable contributer and I really dont understand the hate!

Hey Bigbez how did you rate Ablett v Bolton this weekend?

25 possessions v 10
B1 kicks the matchwinner

I think it was a fair reflection of the difference between the 2

 

[BIGBEZ]

Hey Bigbez how did you rate Ablett v Bolton this weekend?

25 possessions v 10
B1 kicks the matchwinner

I think it was a fair reflection of the difference between the 2

firstly I wasnt trying to compare them against each other as players in general, just pointing out the stats for one particular game to people that were calling for Abletts head.
secondly if Ablett didnt play alongside Bolts, would he have still got 25 possies? mabee but its not always accurate to judge stat counts but Bolts was very impressive against Melbourne, whod they both play on out of interest, and what was their instructed roles?
anyway, I think Ablett will play this week, the Saints are a very tough team that will smash our 'kids', and at least Ablett will keep em honest and be giving it back, his hardness will be needed against the saints if we are gonna give a fight.

 

[Jeffers]

Some people are saying that we are playing NOG to up his trade value at the end of the year, however i think by playing him it's making his trade value get worse.

 

[Bonz]

Some people are saying that we are playing NOG to up his trade value at the end of the year, however i think by playing him it's making his trade value get worse.

Not necessary if he can do his job week in and week out...

And if he isn't played in the forward line...

His a decent tagger if we are going to play him then FFS play him in his proper position...

Either way we are probably going to drop him this Weekend...

 

[MF]

Was he that bad on the weekend? I thought he was okay.

 

[Dangas]

Some people are saying that we are playing NOG to up his trade value at the end of the year, however i think by playing him it's making his trade value get worse.

It sure does, but yes seriously who'd pick NoG up, Fremantle?

 

[vonn]

yer freo sucks at tradin its somethin they'd do.

 

[BIGBEZ]

Was he that bad on the weekend? I thought he was okay.

1stq he looks ok, just watched him get a hard ball, spin and hit White lace out in front of his face but White spilt it, should have been a goal assist in stat terms..

 

[TheMase]

Too many inexperienced small bodied players in our forward line (team) at the mo, need the likes of Ablett to create a physical presence as well as defensive pressure on the way out.

 

[Spicy Swan]

^^^ Sounds good but most other teams have gone for very small but very , very quick players to put the pressure on........Rioli , Davey and his bro at Essendon .
More chance to get to contests with speed.