Analysis Beveridge - where to from here?

Anja_Nees

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#51
All clubs have injuries but let’s be honest, if you’d said in the preseason we’d be without Libba, Picken, Morris, Dickson, Smith, Wood, Redpath, Adams and Suckling for significant chunks (or all) of the season you’d know we were in for a rough run.

A few others haven’t stepped up like they should which hasn’t helped (although some have). The reality is that the squad available is not the one that won us the flag.

When he had the cattle we won. I would never suggest we shouldn’t ever question what he does (for example I’ve raised his issues dealing with the Talia and Stringer situations and Dalrymple elsewhere) but the guy has actually delivered.

I won’t be judging him too harshly unless he seriously loses the players, which doesn’t appear to be the case now, or until he’s got a side capable of performing and they don’t.
 

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#52
I have heard so many people say what happened to the Bulldogs after 2016 Premiership. Such a young list there should have been a dynasty.
What the Bulldogs did was win a Premiership with none of the proven pillars in place.

If you look at Richmond of last year they had the best key back in the comp and a fantastic key forward, both in their peak years. They also had the premier mid fielder in the comp.

In 2016 we had 3 mid sized all Aust defenders in Morris, Boyd & Wood. Around them were role players who played out of their skins in Hamling, Roberts & Biggs.
Boyd retired, Morris has been injured and Wood has been out of form and injured.

On the forward line we had 4 consistent mid sized players relied on to kick goals, Stringer, Picken, Smith and Dickson. All have been injured or in Stringer's case traded. The 4 were complimented by two youngsters in Dunkley and McLean, both these players now spend more time as onballers.

We didn't have a star ruckman instead we had 2 key position players who played pivotal roles in the finals.

What we did have and still have, barring injuries, was a fantastic mid field. We still have them however injuries have taken a big toll.

I believe as long as we can keep our mid field together we will come back very hard. Maybe not next year but in 2020 or 2021 our key back stocks will be very good and hopefully we have two key forwards at their peak.

We just need to hang tough for 12 to 24 months.
Fair post, however, I think realistically, we need to turn over 10-15 players in the next 3 years, and will possibly be a chance in 3-5 years, not 2
 

VogonProsthetnic

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#53
A
Fair post, however, I think realistically, we need to turn over 10-15 players in the next 3 years, and will possibly be a chance in 3-5 years, not 2
As soon as English develops into a dominant ruck and Naughton becomes the dominant key defender- we will be back. Will take at least 3 years imo.
 

TMoney22

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#54
Being stubborn, single minded, too strong in getting his own way, etc, are things a leader should not be. He needs to change that.
Also innovation and creativity cannot reach its potential with a leader like that.

He does a whole lot of other things right in terms of leadership but the above is a massive problem imo
 

go you pups

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Moderator #56
We still would be shit if the premiership assistants maintained their lines.
We wouldn't leak as many goals out the back and we absolutely would've beaten Sydney and North for example

We'd probably be around Essendon level I'd say

With a better injury record who knows
 

TiAn_

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#58
Re the internal assistant coaching movement, it boggles my mind that so many seem to think the assistant coaches each operate in a silo.

Do people actually believe they don’t talk to each other about their areas? Or the coach?

Just an example, not having a go at you:

We wouldn't leak as many goals out the back and we absolutely would've beaten Sydney and North for example
I would be amazed if another assistant had a way to tighten up our defence and it wasn’t discussed with the line or head coach.

Overall strategy isn’t just the combination of 5 separate strategies devised by each line coach.
 

fpcookie

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#59
Re the internal assistant coaching movement, it boggles my mind that so many seem to think the assistant coaches each operate in a silo.

Do people actually believe they don’t talk to each other about their areas? Or the coach?

Just an example, not having a go at you:



I would be amazed if another assistant had a way to tighten up our defence and it wasn’t discussed with the line or head coach.

Overall strategy isn’t just the combination of 5 separate strategies devised by each line coach.
Agreed. The effect is completely overstated IMO.
 

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Next Waiting

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#64
Many high achievers are perceived as being stubborn but I rather think that they think long and hard about their direction before embarking on the journey and once the directional decision has been made they don't change unless there is overwhelming evidence to suggest they are on the wrong path.

Bevo has a lot of life experience outside of footy and is lateral in his thinking. Personally, I'm happy to trust him to the bitter end and where there is difference everyone else is likely to be in error. And if they're not, the evidence will be overwhelming and Bevo will be pragmatic enough to change and leave ego at the door.

Not even half way through his brownie points
 

Johnny_Dogg4

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#65
not sure what to make of this question.
-on one hand it seems reasonable to suggest bevo is stubborn and only wants it his way since the flag.

-ive seen it happen to coaches in other sports where they seek more control/power and most of the time it doesnt work out.

-grant/gordon might have to intervene here. as someone said the example with buckley and hardwick he needs help and to delegate duties.

-well see what happens next year, because from this years preseason i can say it was a complete joke what bevo did

first and foremost we need a strong defence. our defending is bottom 4 material and considering we have so many defenders in the squad its concerning.
scoring remains an issue also ball movement.
 

dergert

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#66
He would still be our best forward, thats the sad part
Dalrymple couldn't recruit a forward to save himself. That's why I like the appointment of Austin from the tigers. I'd give my left nut to have players like Rioli and Higgins in our forward line.
 

MrChristo

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#67
not sure what to make of this question.
-on one hand it seems reasonable to suggest bevo is stubborn and only wants it his way since the flag.

-ive seen it happen to coaches in other sports where they seek more control/power and most of the time it doesnt work out.

-grant/gordon might have to intervene here. as someone said the example with buckley and hardwick he needs help and to delegate duties.

-well see what happens next year, because from this years preseason i can say it was a complete joke what bevo did

first and foremost we need a strong defence. our defending is bottom 4 material and considering we have so many defenders in the squad its concerning.
scoring remains an issue also ball movement.
We're actually mid-table for scores allowed/I50.
We're 5th worst for I50s allowed...and I suspect a good % of those aren't under a great deal of pressure.
 

boydshow

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#70
I think he is possibly one of the best team-builders and people managers among all current AFL coaches
Yep. Huge rebound in team commitment and motivation moving from Macca to Beveridge. Anything he tried in 2016 seemed to work because the players bought in to it all. Doesn't make him the best tactician though
 
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#71
Beveridge is 100% fine and the talk about bad assistant coaches is nonsense and completely ignorant. The only people who can fairly assess the performance of our assistant coaches are people within the club with a first-hand view of what's going on.

The reality is, sometimes players drop off or pick up a series of injuries. After we won the flag in 2016, Liberatore dropped off badly, Biggs dropped off badly, Wood dropped off badly, M.Boyd dropped of badly before retiring, Stringer was dropping off at a constant rate before leaving the club, and overall, we've been decimated by a high volume of injuries to key players. Our best goalscorers from Beveridge's first 3 years have been Stringer, Picken and Dickson, and in 2018, Stringer's gone, Picken has been completely unavailable and Dickson has only played 5 games due to persistent injuries. Taking all that into account, every single one of our coaches deserve a bit of slack.

What's hurt us more than anything including injuries is the new ruck rule. We haven't had a genuine gun 1v1 ruckman since Will Minson in 2013, and between then and 2016, we relied heavily on third man up. With the rule as it is now, we're seeing just how bad both Roughead and Boyd are at contesting the ruck, and it's hurting us badly at every stoppage. If there's one glaring fault with Beveridge (and this applies to the list management too), it's not bringing in a hardened, AFL-ready ruckman, who can at least compete consistently. A Ben Hudson type player would be perfect for us right now, just like 2007.
 

revo333

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#72
A month ago i was positive that we could rebuild quickly.

After watching Richmond and Collingwood today without them both being in form i am now thinking we could be 3 seasons away...
 

Mutt

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Moderator #73
Beveridge is 100% fine and the talk about bad assistant coaches is nonsense and completely ignorant. The only people who can fairly assess the performance of our assistant coaches are people within the club with a first-hand view of what's going on.

The reality is, sometimes players drop off or pick up a series of injuries. After we won the flag in 2016, Liberatore dropped off badly, Biggs dropped off badly, Wood dropped off badly, M.Boyd dropped of badly before retiring, Stringer was dropping off at a constant rate before leaving the club, and overall, we've been decimated by a high volume of injuries to key players. Our best goalscorers from Beveridge's first 3 years have been Stringer, Picken and Dickson, and in 2018, Stringer's gone, Picken has been completely unavailable and Dickson has only played 5 games due to persistent injuries. Taking all that into account, every single one of our coaches deserve a bit of slack.

What's hurt us more than anything including injuries is the new ruck rule. We haven't had a genuine gun 1v1 ruckman since Will Minson in 2013, and between then and 2016, we relied heavily on third man up. With the rule as it is now, we're seeing just how bad both Roughead and Boyd are at contesting the ruck, and it's hurting us badly at every stoppage. If there's one glaring fault with Beveridge (and this applies to the list management too), it's not bringing in a hardened, AFL-ready ruckman, who can at least compete consistently. A Ben Hudson type player would be perfect for us right now, just like 2007.
My criticism of the Assistant Coaching relates more to Beveridge shifting every single one of them to a new role immediately after the flag. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.

If it ain't broke...don't fix it.
 

dergert

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#75
Its very hard not to feel reactive after such a crappy loss but I think our club needs change to personnel both on and off the field. We need a different approach to things. What that is I don't know. This competition is increasingly becoming more results driven and I really fear for our future if we continue in this downward trajectory.

I would appreciate some correspondence around our troubles from the club. I'd even pay the 5k for the coffee with Beveridge.
 
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