Analysis Beveridge - where to from here?

[Dogs_r_barking]

And yet so many of the players have come out and said that Bevo backs then to play to their strengths.

 

[cecil]

There were others who were in similarly poor form at the time who weren't dropped e.g. Webb, Dale, Smith and Williams.

You say that Libba shouldn't have been dropped after round 8 ahead of those players, yet:
Williams - didn't even come into the team until round 6, and picked up 23 touches from half back in round 7.
Dale - Played a total of two games before Libba was dropped.
Webb - Played one game before Libba was dropped, and only 4 for the year.
Smith - Started the year outside of the AFL, only playing 4 games before Libba was dropped. Kicked 4 goals in one of those games.

Doesn't add up.

 

[Proffessor]

And yet so many of the players have come out and said that Bevo backs then to play to their strengths.

I don't doubt that is still his instruction.

The problem is the behaviour displayed by the playing group shows that they are not as convinced and committed by his message as they used to be.

I am suggesting this is because his actions have diverged from his rhetoric.

It's far from a lost cause but he has a bit work to do to rebuild trust.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Do we really need another one of these 'Bev is great, but...' threads.

 

[Proffessor]

Do we really need another one of these 'Bev is great, but...' threads.

Not sure about the others but that is not this thread's intention.

I'm interested in discussing how Bev can back on track from here, which inevitably involves some discussion about where we have gone wrong from a coaching perspective.

The rest of the forum has plenty of discussions revolving around blaming player attitudes, talent level, and injuries for our dramatic fall. I think the coach's role in the fall has been far greater than the general narrative suggests. Happy to discuss/debate that.

Some people have inside knowledge about what has gone on behind the scenes during the last couple of years that could also be interesting to hear.

 

[WallyStringhaus]

Contrast his treatment of Libba ( a club champion and premiership hero), dropped after a few low possession games despite attracting major defensive attention from opposition teams, with that of rookie Lewis Young who in the same season retained his spot despite arguably being the worst player on the ground in each of the last 5 rounds, including key losses which dropped us out of finals contention.

I think you will find a consistency in Bev's methods when it comes to younger players. He tends to give most of them a decent chunk of footy first up.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Bevo will get us another flag in 2020 and it will be his crowing glory.

 

[Proffessor]

I think you will find a consistency in Bev's methods when it comes to younger players. He tends to give most of them a decent chunk of footy first up.

Is that always a good thing?

Having Young in the team after his confidence was smashed wasn't good for him or the team.

 

[BEaston]

You say that Libba shouldn't have been dropped after round 8 ahead of those players, yet:
Williams - didn't even come into the team until round 6, and picked up 23 touches from half back in round 7.
Dale - Played a total of two games before Libba was dropped.
Webb - Played one game before Libba was dropped, and only 4 for the year.
Smith - Started the year outside of the AFL, only playing 4 games before Libba was dropped. Kicked 4 goals in one of those games.

Doesn't add up.

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good rant.

 

[_Mike_]

Its threads like these which resonate why the club went without success for long periods of time. Let's keep playing underperforming players because "they're club favorites". Stringer and Dahlhaus can * off, both started out very promising but became lazy players by their own doing.

Beveridge isn't the only selector on the table, the MC is responsible for the team sheet week in, week out. Look to the club for the problems with changing the assistant coaching roles because a few decided to throw the toys out of the cot, and the list managers/recruiters.

 

[Proffessor]

You say that Libba shouldn't have been dropped after round 8 ahead of those players, yet:
Williams - didn't even come into the team until round 6, and picked up 23 touches from half back in round 7.
Dale - Played a total of two games before Libba was dropped.
Webb - Played one game before Libba was dropped, and only 4 for the year.
Smith - Started the year outside of the AFL, only playing 4 games before Libba was dropped. Kicked 4 goals in one of those games.

Doesn't add up.

What didn't add up in 2017 was prioritising giving 2-3-5 games in a row to young/fringe players at the time over fielding your best team and missing the finals as a result.

Matthew Boyd was banished to the VFL for most of the year but was our best player in his farewell match in the last game of the season, clearly demonstrating that he could have made a bigger contribution during the season.

Why did we prioritise development so strongly during a premiership defence?

 

[maddog37]

What didn't add up in 2017 was prioritising giving 2-3-5 games in a row to young/fringe players at the time over fielding your best team and missing the finals as a result.

Matthew Boyd was banished to the VFL for most of the year but was our best player in his farewell match in the last game of the season, clearly demonstrating that he could have made a bigger contribution during the season.

Why did we prioritise development so strongly during a premiership defence?

I think Bev saw the truth of our position a lot quicker than anyone else and decided to move on accordingly.

 

[WallyStringhaus]

Is that always a good thing?

Having Young in the team after his confidence was smashed wasn't good for him or the team.

You have the benefit of hindsight to strengthen your viewpoint.

Young was superb in his first fortnight, week 3 was not so good. Could he have been dropped then? Possibly, but the team was on a four game winning streak and continuity is important. Adams was injured and Roberts/Collins were hardly banging the door down to replace him.

The GWS game was a complete nightmare for him and would have no doubt shaken his confidence (i think it was a friday night game also). At this point Bevo and the MC have a critical decision to make. Do they drop the kid and dent his confidence further or back him in, build him up during the week and see what he is made of?

They chose the latter and he didn't respond...and that's ok. It is a brutal industry and he will either learn from it and become a better player or not make it.

Brad Lynch was an example from this year. He had a very solid start followed by an ordinary few weeks. He quite easily could have been dropped but the MC kept the faith and he played a good game to finish off the year which will give him confidence going into next year.

 

[_Mike_]

Matthew Boyd was banished to the VFL for most of the year but was our best player in his farewell match in the last game of the season, clearly demonstrating that he could have made a bigger contribution during the season.

You might have missed the fact that he had his ear nearly torn off before the season started, then was dogged by a shoulder injury for most of the season. But hey, lets not let see fact drown out the hyperbole.

 

[maddog37]

You might have missed the fact that he had his ear nearly torn off before the season started, then was dogged by a shoulder injury for most of the season. But hey, lets not let see fact drown out the hyperbole.

You sound defensive mike. I’m not in agreement with professor but he is just shooting the breeze imho.

 

[_Mike_]

You sound defensive mike. I’m not in agreement with professor but he is just shooting the breeze imho.

Its easy though to come out with a statement = player X played good in one game, therefore logic says that he should have played more, with no reference to why he wasn't playing more games in the senior team.

 

[Proffessor]

Its threads like these which resonate why the club went without success for long periods of time. Let's keep playing underperforming players because "they're club favorites". Stringer and Dahlhaus can **** off, both started out very promising but became lazy players by their own doing.

Beveridge isn't the only selector on the table, the MC is responsible for the team sheet week in, week out. Look to the club for the problems with changing the assistant coaching roles because a few decided to throw the toys out of the cot, and the list managers/recruiters.

I have no problem with dropping players out of form.

The problem is that we have one set of rules for young players and another for older players which is not only unfair but also counterproductive.

If we had shown a bit more faith in our older players and a bit less in the young guys I think we would certainly have made finals in 2017 and potentially even scraped in in 2018.

I think we would also have had less players wanting to leave the club.

 

[Proffessor]

You have the benefit of hindsight to strengthen your viewpoint.

Young was superb in his first fortnight, week 3 was not so good. Could he have been dropped then? Possibly, but the team was on a four game winning streak and continuity is important. Adams was injured and Roberts/Collins were hardly banging the door down to replace him.

The GWS game was a complete nightmare for him and would have no doubt shaken his confidence (i think it was a friday night game also). At this point Bevo and the MC have a critical decision to make. Do they drop the kid and dent his confidence further or back him in, build him up during the week and see what he is made of?

They chose the latter and he didn't respond...and that's ok. It is a brutal industry and he will either learn from it and become a better player or not make it.

Brad Lynch was an example from this year. He had a very solid start followed by an ordinary few weeks. He quite easily could have been dropped but the MC kept the faith and he played a good game to finish off the year which will give him confidence going into next year.

Young had a great debut match, the second wasn't great but not as horrendous as those that followed.

After the GWS disaster it was completely inappropriate to keep him in the side whilst alternatives such as Roberts were available.

If we were down the bottom and not still with a chance of making finals then there may have been a stronger argument for giving him an extra chance but under the circumstances it was a terrible MC call that cost us finals as much as Stringer's hamstring injury, which ultimately saw him shown the door from the club.

 

[_Mike_]

I think we would also have had less players wanting to leave the club.

Stringer and Dahlhaus aside for the discussion about players leaving

- Roughead is a FA, was being shopped by WCE but nothing has come about. No other club AFAIK have approached Roughead either. He has been ordinary the last 2 years and has recurring shoulder problems.

- Biggs (personal reasons), Smith & Redpath (persistent knee problems) retired. Biggs was a depth player, Smith was a "what could have been", yet gave every inch of himself when he could. Red was just unlucky but not what I would have considered as regular starting 22.

- Adams had been making it known at some stage he may want to return to WA - there was no subterfuge and is staying out his contract rather than throwing the toys out of the cot demanding a trade.

Who else wants to leave?

 

[maddog37]

I have no problem with dropping players out of form.

The problem is that we have one set of rules for young players and another for older players which is not only unfair but also counterproductive.

If we had shown a bit more faith in our older players and a bit less in the young guys I think we would certainly have made finals in 2017 and potentially even scraped in in 2018.

I think we would also have had less players wanting to leave the club.

You are looking at it wrong. It’s not players wanting to leave but the club pushing players out.

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Not sure about the others but that is not this thread's intention.

I'm interested in discussing how Bev can back on track from here, which inevitably involves some discussion about where we have gone wrong from a coaching perspective.

The rest of the forum has plenty of discussions revolving around blaming player attitudes, talent level, and injuries for our dramatic fall. I think the coach's role in the fall has been far greater than the general narrative suggests. Happy to discuss/debate that.

Some people have inside knowledge about what has gone on behind the scenes during the last couple of years that could also be interesting to hear.

I think the coaches have been blamed more than you must be reading on here. Its been done and then done again. There are about 5 threads on here with the title 'Bevo' or 'Luke Beveridge' that outline a similar line of thinking. There are threads on Gia and our assistants and the coaching restructure.

I think your earlier post in regards to the WCE game is wrong and disrespectful to a man that delivered us our second flag.

"Your past deeds for me count for very little, and if you aren't in my preferential treatment group, I'm happy to use you as a scape goat for a loss.

Key message: I don't have your back if you have even a single bad game."

Seriously?

 

[Proffessor]

Any good players wanting to leave is a bad thing and often indicative of a less than desirable environment.

People don't like change as a rule and will regularly put up with a lot of crap before they pack up their things and make a risky move.

Adams might have indicated his desire to move back to WA in the past but he recently nominated Brisbane as his preferred new home. That suggests it isn't a home sickness issue anymore.

 

[Proffessor]

I think the coaches have been blamed more than you must be reading on here. Its been done and then done again. There are about 5 threads on here with the title 'Bevo' or 'Luke Beveridge' that outline a similar line of thinking. There are threads on Gia and our assistants and the coaching restructure.

I think your earlier post in regards to the WCE game is wrong and disrespectful to a man that delivered us our second flag.

"Your past deeds for me count for very little, and if you aren't in my preferential treatment group, I'm happy to use you as a scape goat for a loss.

Key message: I don't have your back if you have even a single bad game."

Seriously?

How has our form line looked like from that point onwards?

 

[Anja_Nees]

Just because your a premiership player doesn't mean you get immunity for selection. Libba had 7 touches in round 8, 5 in round 6, 10 in round 4 and 8 in round 1. Him being dropped was the correct call.

Roberts and Cordy both didn't get over 15 touches from (fletchs had 10 at most) from rounds 1-8.

And I remember Mclean was stiff to be dropped but he also when he got back into the side was our of the most improved for 2017.

So the narrative of "I don't have your back if you have even a single bad game" Is just bs. All those players had bad games before round 8 and them being dropped was justified.

The WC loss was on a six day turnaround from a narrow win over Richmond. I bumped into Libba at a bar at 3am after the Richmond game and he wasn’t leaving any time soon. The worst performance of his career followed and he had to be dropped.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Any good players wanting to leave is a bad thing and often indicative of a less than desirable environment.

People don't like change as a rule and will regularly put up with a lot of crap before they pack up their things and make a risky move.

Adams might have indicated his desire to move back to WA in the past but he recently nominated Brisbane as his preferred new home. That suggests it isn't a home sickness issue anymore.

True but the solid citizens like Bont, Macrae and Wallis still love the joint. Have heard Adams may not be the easiest character to get along with so may be other factors.