Analysis Beveridge - where to from here?

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My criticism of the Assistant Coaching relates more to Beveridge shifting every single one of them to a new role immediately after the flag. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.

If it ain't broke...don't fix it.
You plageurising my posts?

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Pugz89

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A month ago i was positive that we could rebuild quickly.

After watching Richmond and Collingwood today without them both being in form i am now thinking we could be 3 seasons away...
Same thing was said in 2014 and 24 months later we were the reigning premiers. Football turns quickly, timeframe predictions are hardly accurate for a large percentage. Keep the faith. :)
 
Same thing was said in 2014 and 24 months later we were the reigning premiers. Football turns quickly, timeframe predictions are hardly accurate for a large percentage. Keep the faith. :)
Exactly. Any predictions of a club's prospects beyond about 12 months out can generally be disregarded. No-one really knows and not too many guess it right.

The only safe bets are those who are cosseted by AFL policy and structure, like GWS and Sydney. Sydney have become semi-permanent finalists since their dark days of the 80s and early 90s scared the s**t out of the AFL. Expect GWS to be there for a long time too. It's a commercial necessity.
 
Apr 8, 2005
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Beveridge is 100% fine and the talk about bad assistant coaches is nonsense and completely ignorant. The only people who can fairly assess the performance of our assistant coaches are people within the club with a first-hand view of what's going on.

The reality is, sometimes players drop off or pick up a series of injuries. After we won the flag in 2016, Liberatore dropped off badly, Biggs dropped off badly, Wood dropped off badly, M.Boyd dropped of badly before retiring, Stringer was dropping off at a constant rate before leaving the club, and overall, we've been decimated by a high volume of injuries to key players. Our best goalscorers from Beveridge's first 3 years have been Stringer, Picken and Dickson, and in 2018, Stringer's gone, Picken has been completely unavailable and Dickson has only played 5 games due to persistent injuries. Taking all that into account, every single one of our coaches deserve a bit of slack.

What's hurt us more than anything including injuries is the new ruck rule. We haven't had a genuine gun 1v1 ruckman since Will Minson in 2013, and between then and 2016, we relied heavily on third man up. With the rule as it is now, we're seeing just how bad both Roughead and Boyd are at contesting the ruck, and it's hurting us badly at every stoppage. If there's one glaring fault with Beveridge (and this applies to the list management too), it's not bringing in a hardened, AFL-ready ruckman, who can at least compete consistently. A Ben Hudson type player would be perfect for us right now, just like 2007.
If our coaching team cannot adapt to a rule change 2 seasons on, that is a huge issue and it sits squarely with the coaches
 

Unorth

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If our coaching team cannot adapt to a rule change 2 seasons on, that is a huge issue and it sits squarely with the coaches

But we drafted English. Outside of recruiting a superstar ruck (Not exactly many available anyway), using a first round pick on one was about all we could do, and now we just have to wait. We were just unlucky with us deliberately not emphasising ruck work (thus not having any quality rucks on the list) while the AFL went hard and fast in the opposite direction. We're going to get killed in the ruck most weeks until English is ready, but there's no point investing significant coin in recruiting a ruck now.
 
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But we drafted English. Outside of recruiting a superstar ruck (Not exactly many available anyway), using a first round pick on one was about all we could do, and now we just have to wait. We were just unlucky with us deliberately not emphasising ruck work (thus not having any quality rucks on the list) while the AFL went hard and fast in the opposite direction. We're going to get killed in the ruck most weeks until English is ready, but there's no point investing significant coin in recruiting a ruck now.
So they can't implement any strategies to stop the bleeding in the short term?
We hardly had to recruit a superstar ruck either, there are serviceable players that can be found.
Hell, he could even try out Tom Campbell
 
So they can't implement any strategies to stop the bleeding in the short term?
We hardly had to recruit a superstar ruck either, there are serviceable players that can be found.
Hell, he could even try out Tom Campbell
Toby Nankervis is a perfect example of just such a player: two lacklustre seasons with Sydney and then a premiership with Richmond in his first year - great trading for pick 46.
 

Proffessor

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After a miraculous start to his AFL coaching career delivered the Bulldogs their long awaited 2nd VFL/AFL Premiership, Bev's last couple of seasons have been seriously disappointing.

Inexplicable team selections, numerous disgruntled player and staff departures, plus bizarre Best and Fairest voting results have combined to rapidly eat away at the enormous amount of credits that Bev banked in his first couple of years.

Clearly the man has outstanding coaching ability, but similarly some thing has gone seriously amiss after 2016.

Interested to hear people's views on where things have gone wrong behind the scenes and how the club can wake up Bev and get back on track.

My own personal view is that his biggest mistake was to not show sufficient loyalty and support to the players who won the flag for him and too much faith in the new players he has bought into the club since then.

Loyalty is a 2 way street. Coaches and clubs often forget this and that's when accidents happen.
 

Draft Pick

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[QUOTE="Proffessor, post: 58470072, member: 139594]

My own personal view is that his biggest mistake was to not show sufficient loyalty and support to the players who won the flag for him and too much faith in the new players he has bought into the club since then.[/QUOTE]
Which players hasn’t he shown loyalty to ?

Stringer ? Dahlhaus ? Roberts ?
 

Proffessor

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Those 3 are a good start, plus there would be a few more that would have felt pretty hard done by in terms of selection and B and F voting.

Why are so many previously loyal players looking to exit?
 
Those 3 are a good start, plus there would be a few more that would have felt pretty hard done by in terms of selection and B and F voting.

Why are so many previously loyal players looking to exit?

Bev is clearing out players that he doesn’t want. It’s pretty clear.
 
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To be honest, on reflection I'm not too down on him. If our mature core (Picken, Dicko, Suckling, Wood, Morris, Libba, Adams) had been available most games we would have given a better account of ourselves. 8 wins is not acceptable but given that we fielded the youngest team 20 of 22 games it's probably not awful.

I agree to some extent re loyalty to premiership players. From the outside looking in all of Stringer, Libba, Dahl and Roberts could claim to have been treated shabbily. That said, Stringer lost the plot and Dahl and Libba have both been quite openly...relaxing a bit too much for professional athletes. You get away with it if you perform but neither was anywhere near 2016 form when available. Roberts is clearly just not rated.

We have a giant wave of players coming through or already established who are between 19 and 23. All in that bracket can and should improve, possibly quite dramatically. My view is we need to give them the opportunity to do that and that Bevo is the bloke to take them there.
 

Freshwater

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He will always love those players for winning us the flag. But the CLUB won the flag, not just the 22 who were out there on the day. In a professional footy club you always have to be a step ahead of the pack. He will make mistakes, he’s human, but he can’t live in the past. For some of the 22 on Grand Final day the game went past them quicker than they or we would have liked. Some were dickheads, and some just relaxed a tiny bit and that’s too much in this even, even competition. Every important role in the whole club must be accountable, enjoy their role and be a part of the next tilt. We are not that far off being a contender again.
 

Mattdougie

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There were so many reasons 2017 was a failure but imo the club tried to scape goat a small number of players and it fractured the club.

It hasn’t finished and I believe will take another year to stabilise.

We now must consider 2016 the anomaly and reassess our expectations on this list and coaching staff. Opinions greatly vary from bottom 2 all the way to top 4 in 2019. Time will tell
 

cecil

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From our premiership players I can only really see the argument being relevant for:
Stringer wasn't showing up for rehab and broke down in 3 games in his last year with us, so I am totally okay with him getting the turf.
Dahl I think there is a case for your argument. He was down, but still best 22.
Roberts was a bit part player in 2016, and has been overtaken by Naughton.
Roughy's body keeps failing him, and was offered a contract for next year still.
Libba I feel is hard to judge from the outside. For no other club to make him a decent offer probably shows where he is at.
Biggs took his eyes off the ball, and was nowhere near best 22 by the end of the year.

If Picken, Morris, Dickson, Libba, Wood, Suckling and Adams all had have played the full year I think we would have definitely been thereabouts to make finals and we wouldn't really be having this conversation. The big IF is we probably need decent years from at least half of those next year if we're going to make finals. I have my doubts on Picken, Morris, Dickson and Adams. It means 4-5 of Dale, Daniel, Williams, Crozier, Schache, Boyd, Lynch, Lipinski etc are going to have to become consistently good contributing best 22 players.
 

WallyStringhaus

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Stringer can count himself very lucky to be a Premiership player imo. He was horrendous in the back half of '16, duly dropped pre finals and did nothing to warrant the reprieve he got.

You're right, loyalty is a two way street and Stringer should have been loyal to the bloke that coached him into an All Australian and Premiership player by getting the most out of his ridiculously talented body...
 
Jun 19, 2016
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After a miraculous start to his AFL coaching career delivered the Bulldogs their long awaited 2nd VFL/AFL Premiership, Bev's last couple of seasons have been seriously disappointing.

Inexplicable team selections, numerous disgruntled player and staff departures, plus bizarre Best and Fairest voting results have combined to rapidly eat away at the enormous amount of credits that Bev banked in his first couple of years.

Clearly the man has outstanding coaching ability, but similarly some thing has gone seriously amiss after 2016.

Interested to hear people's views on where things have gone wrong behind the scenes and how the club can wake up Bev and get back on track.

My own personal view is that his biggest mistake was to not show sufficient loyalty and support to the players who won the flag for him and too much faith in the new players he has bought into the club since then.

Loyalty is a 2 way street. Coaches and clubs often forget this and that's when accidents happen.
To be honest I think he maybe showed too much loyalty/trust to some and sadly some abused it. I suspect Bevo feels let down by a few.
 

Yojimbo

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Richmond had a better home and away season in 2018 and yet did not repeat the flag performance from 2017
it would be easy to say playing Martin and Astbury were two huge errors in the prelim. In reality flags are
very hard to win and the unity required to peak at the right time can be there one minute and gone the next.
2016 was random no one has won from seventh place on the ladder except us this year there were many
pretenders in the top eight Sydney, Geelong, Hawthorn, GWS and Melbourne only the other three could win
the flag for a variety of reasons. It's hard to win and has little to do with the coach although the intangible
vibe or belief or message can be coach driven, but only for so long.
 

Proffessor

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I think one of the big turning points for the team and the club came after the 2017 Round 8 loss to West Coast, by 8 points in WA.

Playing the Eagles in WA is never an easy assignment, they were sitting 4th on the ladder going into the match, and third after their victory.

Going into Round 9 we were still in the eight and only one game and percentage off top spot. Naturally as reigning premier we were also dealing with a tough draw

The outs from the team that week were:
M.Boyd (shoulder), T.Liberatore, F.Roberts, Z.Cordy, T.McLean.

Four premiership players dropped, one nominally left out due to injury, most of them capable of mounting an argument of better overall early season form than others selected ahead of them in the side for the following week's match against Geelong which we duly lost by 23 points.

I think Bev was trying to prove he was a tough task master who wasn't swayed by names and reputations.

This may have worked with the media. Unfortunately the players are much better informed, and they aren't so easily fooled because they all have a pretty good handle on how each other is going on a week to week basis, and would have been seriously shocked with the selection decisions.

Bev sent a message that week alright but it wasn't the one he intended.
I think the message that most of the playing group would have heard would have been more the along the following lines:
Your past deeds for me count for very little, and if you aren't in my preferential treatment group, I'm happy to use you as a scape goat for a loss.

Key message: I don't have your back if you have even a single bad game.

For a team whose whole game plan was built on taking risks, such a message was as corrosive as acid.
 

Chadley

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I think one of the big turning points for the team and the club came after the 2017 Round 8 loss to West Coast, by 8 points in WA.

Playing the Eagles in WA is never an easy assignment, they were sitting 4th on the ladder going into the match, and third after their victory.

Going into Round 9 we were still in the eight and only one game and percentage off top spot. Naturally as reigning premier we were also dealing with a tough draw

The outs from the team that week were:
M.Boyd (shoulder), T.Liberatore, F.Roberts, Z.Cordy, T.McLean.

Four premiership players dropped, one nominally left out due to injury, most of them capable of mounting an argument of better overall early season form than others selected ahead of them in the side for the following week's match against Geelong which we duly lost by 23 points.

I think Bev was trying to prove he was a tough task master who wasn't swayed by names and reputations.

This may have worked with the media. Unfortunately the players are much better informed, and they aren't so easily fooled because they all have a pretty good handle on how each other is going on a week to week basis, and would have been seriously shocked with the selection decisions.

Bev sent a message that week alright but it wasn't the one he intended.
I think the message that most of the playing group would have heard would have been more the along the following lines:
Your past deeds for me count for very little, and if you aren't in my preferential treatment group, I'm happy to use you as a scape goat for a loss.

Key message: I don't have your back if you have even a single bad game.

For a team whose whole game plan was built on taking risks, such a message was as corrosive as acid.

Just because your a premiership player doesn't mean you get immunity for selection. Libba had 7 touches in round 8, 5 in round 6, 10 in round 4 and 8 in round 1. Him being dropped was the correct call.

Roberts and Cordy both didn't get over 15 touches from (fletchs had 10 at most) from rounds 1-8.

And I remember Mclean was stiff to be dropped but he also when he got back into the side was our of the most improved for 2017.

So the narrative of "I don't have your back if you have even a single bad game" Is just bs. All those players had bad games before round 8 and them being dropped was justified.
 

Proffessor

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There were so many reasons 2017 was a failure but imo the club tried to scape goat a small number of players and it fractured the club.

It hasn’t finished and I believe will take another year to stabilise.

We now must consider 2016 the anomaly and reassess our expectations on this list and coaching staff. Opinions greatly vary from bottom 2 all the way to top 4 in 2019. Time will tell

MD I agree strongly with the first part of your post, but I think we can stabilise immediately and rebound quickly if we recognise the bad behaviour and stop it.

Zaine Cordy is still only 21 and carried the backline at times this year, he took on tough jobs and was still willing to sacrifice his own game to help out team mates and take attacking risks.
He didn't finish in the top 10 in the B&F.

Aaron Naughton finished 4th in the B&F with very similar (but slightly inferior, in terms of disposals, disposal efficiency, meters gained, 1%ers, etc.) stats to Zaine, who also played in similar positions.

This shows that the MC still have a very skewed view of what constitutes fair treatment.
 

BevoRambo

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Bevo conjured a flag from a group he largely inherited. Literally created a certain magic that got a bunch that was going nowhere in the years preceding, to gel and play committed footy.

Now stop and re-read the first sentence again, out loud.

It’s an amazing feat.

Believe he’s now sculpting the team and group he wants. And like all good leaders he’s had to make tough decisions.

He’s getting this list into shape for a sustained tilt at glory. Where the magic won’t necessarily be required because the personnel, structure and game plans will be of the right quality to succeed.

Game on in 2019 and beyond.

We’re coming.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

Proffessor

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Just because your a premiership player doesn't mean you get immunity for selection. Libba had 7 touches in round 8, 5 in round 6, 10 in round 4 and 8 in round 1. Him being dropped was the correct call.

Roberts and Cordy both didn't get over 15 touches from (fletchs had 10 at most) from rounds 1-8.

And I remember Mclean was stiff to be dropped but he also when he got back into the side was our of the most improved for 2017.

So the narrative of "I don't have your back if you have even a single bad game" Is just bs. All those players had bad games before round 8 and them being dropped was justified.

There were others who were in similarly poor form at the time who weren't dropped e.g. Webb, Dale, Smith and Williams.

Sometimes players need to be dropped to help them return to form.

Sometimes players need the coach to hold fast and show them faith to help them return to form.

It is a coach's job to judge which option to take.

Bev made the wrong call on this occasion, and many others in 2017 and 2018, and I think these misjudgements largely led to us missing the finals in both years.

Contrast his treatment of Libba ( a club champion and premiership hero), dropped after a few low possession games despite attracting major defensive attention from opposition teams, with that of rookie Lewis Young who in the same season retained his spot despite arguably being the worst player on the ground in each of the last 5 rounds, including key losses which dropped us out of finals contention.
 
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