Analysis Beveridge - where to from here?

[Braybrook Son]

One thing we need to remember is that there wouldn’t be a coach in the comp that isn’t involved in recruitment to some degree. With some being involved more than others ie Clarko.
I just find it a little ridiculous that we’d think Bev is pretty much in charge of ours and doesn’t let the recruiters do their job.

Your comment in regards to this, Ringa, is it on the back of what posters have said in here or do you know for a fact that Bev has control over recruiting ?

He jumped in when it came to Gowers!

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Thought this was relevant

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Ex Hawthorn players
And yes maybe l read too much big footy
But Daymple is at the Swans now and shouldn't be.
He recruited us a premiership.

Definitely a connection with the ex Hawks players. Could be a stretch to suggest he’s solely responsible for bringing in Suckling and Duryea though.

Coaches, football directors, list managers and head recruiters have regular meetings throughout the year to discuss list issues so yes, Bevo would be involved in some way in most of if not all list management and recruitment decisions.

As for Dalrymple, he was outstanding st bringing in talent and absolutely had a hand in bringing together a premiership group of draftees. He also had a strong hand in us having a bit of an unbalanced team, positional wise.

From what I’ve heard, he wanted the full role that Sam Power now has, the club didn’t think he was up to the job, he got an opportunity at Sydney, so took it.
We didn’t just get rid of Dalrymple. We made the decision to not promote someone who wasn’t up to the job, and so due to that, we lost him to another club.
Do you think that’s a reasonable business decision made by a major professional sporting club ?
Or are you more leaning towards promoting someone purely to keep him at the club regardless of him not being up to the job ?

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Thought this was relevant

Fair wack to his ex teammates and coaches.
What was his excuse for being a bog ordinary player for every year other than the premiership year ?

 

[ringa5]

Definitely a connection with the ex Hawks players. Could be a stretch to suggest he’s solely responsible for bringing in Suckling and Duryea though.

Coaches, football directors, list managers and head recruiters have regular meetings throughout the year to discuss list issues so yes, Bevo would be involved in some way in most of if not all list management and recruitment decisions.

As for Dalrymple, he was outstanding st bringing in talent and absolutely had a hand in bringing together a premiership group of draftees. He also had a strong hand in us having a bit of an unbalanced team, positional wise.

From what I’ve heard, he wanted the full role that Sam Power now has, the club didn’t think he was up to the job, he got an opportunity at Sydney, so took it.
We didn’t just get rid of Dalrymple. We made the decision to not promote someone who wasn’t up to the job, and so due to that, we lost him to another club.
Do you think that’s a reasonable business decision made by a major professional sporting club ?
Or are you more leaning towards promoting someone purely to keep him at the club regardless of him not being up to the job ?

Not at all l'm just voicing my opinions of what could have gone wrong in the last 3 seasons.As hopefully criticism to make us better.You make good points.And discussion is great.l am not right nor wrong
Just like to make the club accountable and better.
But IMO l would have given Dalrymple the
Promotion.But hindsight means nothing.
Just build on where we are now.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Not at all l'm just voicing my opinions of what could have gone wrong in the last 3 seasons.As hopefully criticism to make us better.You make good points.And discussion is great.l am not right nor wrong
Just like to make the club accountable and better.
But IMO l would have given Dalrymple the
Promotion.But hindsight means nothing.
Just build on where we are now.

Yeah, fair enough.

I guess we need to wait a few years before we know if the non promotion was a good idea or not.
Hopefully it was.

 

[footyfan000001]

Thought this was relevant

Decent whack! Bit stiff..

 

[dogwatch]

Thought this was relevant

Sad.

 

[dogwatch]

Fair wack to his ex teammates and coaches.
What was his excuse for being a bog ordinary player for every year other than the premiership year ?

Chicken and egg.
You're saying he was bog-ordinary. He's saying you can't play to your best if your coaches and teammates don't believe in you.

The truth might be a bit of both but the fact remains he's playing a useful role for Collingwood in an area we are struggling in this year.
It might help that his body is holding up better than it has for a couple of years.

 

[mackem]

Chicken and egg.
You're saying he was bog-ordinary. He's saying you can't play to your best if your coaches and teammates don't believe in you.

The truth might be a bit of both but the fact remains he's playing a useful role for Collingwood in an area we are struggling in this year.
It might help that his body is holding up better than it has for a couple of years.

Is there something wrong with our medical/fitness regime? As it seems that players who were always having injury problems with us now seem to be injury free at other clubs.

 

[footyfan000001]

Is there something wrong with our medical/fitness regime? As it seems that players who were always having injury problems with us now seem to be injury free at other clubs.

Roughead and Higgins yes.

Adams same as always.

 

[Braybrook Son]

Today’s result proves we made Eagles look better than they are!

 

[ScragCity]

I'd you guys lose to carlton next week does he come under pressure? 66% of their wins would have come from you if that happens

Nah. We give our coaches a fair run rather than making them scapegoats for our poorly run club and sacking them every couple years.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Frankly I think our biggest issue is the age of our side and until it matures a bit it’ll be badly up and down.

If we could execute what Bevo wanted us to, which we often do for a stretch but not long enough, we’d probably be fine. That’s probably why he’s so stubborn.

That said, the coaching lineup probably is a little stale and could do with rejuvenation. We don’t get the benefit of a fresh perspective.

I don’t mind Johnson’s comments at all but you can’t accurately comment on what’s going on without acknowledging the forced retirements and rapid, unavoidable changes to the list. To the extent that’s a list management issue, McCartney and Dal are gone.

Sheahan is just whipping up drama because the media got its girst few targets early.

Your comments about age are spot on but in my opinion it will be a continual thing when the coaching group can’t get the best out of guys like Dahlhaus and Roughead who can go on and do it elsewhere. Losing guys 26 and 28 and replacing them with kids will never work. Someone smarter than me will be able to post it but the quotes from Roughead in the paper today are pretty damning towards Beveridge. Saying we need to get older is one thing but when we have turfed out mature players who can still play or created an environment where mature players don’t feel like they can get the best out of themselves, a lot of that sits with the coach who is responsible for the culture

 

[dogwatch]

Your comments about age are spot on but in my opinion it will be a continual thing when the coaching group can’t get the best out of guys like Dahlhaus and Roughead who can go on and do it elsewhere. Losing guys 26 and 28 and replacing them with kids will never work. Someone smarter than me will be able to post it but the quotes from Roughead in the paper today are pretty damning towards Beveridge. Saying we need to get older is one thing but when we have turfed out mature players who can still play or created an environment where mature players don’t feel like they can get the best out of themselves, a lot of that sits with the coach who is responsible for the culture

Yes, the Roughead article was an uncomfortable read. And I take your point about needing to hang onto players who have put in 5 or more years to become our experienced core.

However to cover players like Roughy and Dahl leaving we have brought in players of similar age and/or experience in Lloyd, Trengove, Duryea, Crozier. Isn't that pretty much like for like?

Trengove is performing about the level Roughead did if not better and the same could be said of Lloyd and Dahlhaus (Dahl as in 2018, not his sudden new found love of the game in 2019).

 

[Munnez]

Thought this was relevant

A lot easier to play a role within your limitations in a top side. Injuries have played there part too, Lynden Dunne doesn't do his knee Roughy is still scratching in the VFL.
Good Luck to him glad he is having a good year. Change has worked for him not the first player that it has worked for. Crozier has been rejuvenated since he came across to us, right opportunity at the right time

 

[Hobdog]

A lot easier to play a role within your limitations in a top side. Injuries have played there part too, Lynden Dunne doesn't do his knee Roughy is still scratching in the VFL.
Good Luck to him glad he is having a good year. Change has worked for him not the first player that it has worked for. Crozier has been rejuvenated since he came across to us, right opportunity at the right time

I posted in the media thread that I think there’s probably sone issues down at the club but they probably fall in the middle of chaotic doom and the nothing to see here. I also think we’d be no different to any other club. Spot on with Croz. He’s seemingly thriving in our environment.


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[Charlie Bucket]

Chicken and egg.
You're saying he was bog-ordinary. He's saying you can't play to your best if your coaches and teammates don't believe in you.

The truth might be a bit of both but the fact remains he's playing a useful role for Collingwood in an area we are struggling in this year.
It might help that his body is holding up better than it has for a couple of years.

It just feels like a cop out blaming his teammates and coaches.

60% of his career at the dogs was very ordinary. Tried as a defender, tried as a fwd. Both delivered donuts.
20% he was probably injured.
20% was pretty good as a ruck/fwd. not outstanding, as his stats weren’t too crash hot, but he did hit enough form over 15/16 to have a hand in our flag.

The thing that shits me is that his good form was sandwiched between multiple years of bad form. Wouldn’t that suggest that at some point, probably 15/16, the team and the coaches backed his form in enough for him to play good enough footy to become a premiership player ?
Who’s responsibility is it then to continue growing as a better player ?
It should be Roughies, but instead he’s blaming others at the club for his bad form in the later years.

He also mentions he wanted to prove to others he could still play, yet he didn’t want to fight for his spot and prove it in our line up. He wanted to bail and prove it elsewhere while having a crack at ex teammates and coaches blaming them for his pretty shitty effort at becoming a good footballer for more than 20% of his career.

I was one of Roughies biggest fans, even after he left, but he blaming others for not carving out a better career with us is poor form imo.

 

[The Inbetweener]

Yes, the Roughead article was an uncomfortable read. And I take your point about needing to hang onto players who have put in 5 or more years to become our experienced core.

However to cover players like Roughy and Dahl leaving we have brought in players of similar age and/or experience in Lloyd, Trengove, Duryea, Crozier. Isn't that pretty much like for like?

Trengove is performing about the level Roughead did if not better and the same could be said of Lloyd and Dahlhaus (Dahl as in 2018, not his sudden new found love of the game in 2019).

Thanks for the reply. Always good to have a genuine argument rather than scream and shout!

The big difference from my point of view is that none of those guys other than Crozier were best 22 at their clubs.

Dahl certainly was for us, Roughead should have been and even Adams was if not injured.

Replacing mature best 22 guys with older guys who weren’t best 22 creates a cycle where we will remain young but not really have improvement.

If we keep losing guys 26+ and only able to replace them with other 26+ guys who aren’t as good, it’s a concern.

Adding these other mature guys while keeping our own would at least see us have genuine competition for spots.

It’s not a one way street as the players have some responsibility, but the coach builds culture and from the outside given the players who have left and the others who have stagnated, the culture doesn’t look great.

We desperately need to sort this out before guys like Bont and Macrae start wondering if the grass is greener

 

[ScragCity]

Thanks for the reply. Always good to have a genuine argument rather than scream and shout!

The big difference from my point of view is that none of those guys other than Crozier were best 22 at their clubs.

Dahl certainly was for us, Roughead should have been and even Adams was if not injured.

Replacing mature best 22 guys with older guys who weren’t best 22 creates a cycle where we will remain young but not really have improvement.

If we keep losing guys 26+ and only able to replace them with other 26+ guys who aren’t as good, it’s a concern.

Adding these other mature guys while keeping our own would at least see us have genuine competition for spots.

It’s not a one way street as the players have some responsibility, but the coach builds culture and from the outside given the players who have left and the others who have stagnated, the culture doesn’t look great.

We desperately need to sort this out before guys like Bont and Macrae start wondering if the grass is greener

If our culture is so awful I wonder why guys like Macrae, McLean, Hunter and Naughton signed long term deals recently.

You do realise that players moving to a new club and experiencing a spike in form is a well documented phenomenon right? They call it the honeymoon period. Doesn't indicate that the previous club has issues. If you're going to judge us on the players who have left then you also have to take into account the ones we have retained, which is a much bigger and more impressive list.

 

[Braybrook Son]

If our culture is so awful I wonder why guys like Macrae, McLean, Hunter and Naughton signed long term deals recently.

You do realise that players moving to a new club and experiencing a spike in form is a well documented phenomenon right? They call it the honeymoon period. Doesn't indicate that the previous club has issues. If you're going to judge us on the players who have left then you also have to take into account the ones we have retained, which is a much bigger and more impressive list.

Our culture is awful. Every few years we make a final or two, it has to change. The only bloke who wanted to change our culture was Eade. Look at Geelong, Sydney, Hawks, nearly every year they make finals. We should strive for more, not mediocrity

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Our culture is awful. Every few years we make a final or two, it has to change. The only bloke who wanted to change our culture was Eade. Look at Geelong, Sydney, Hawks, nearly every year they make finals. We should strive for more, not mediocrity

we accepted it when we got a cooked cloke. sums it all up imo

 

[Martyn_30_]

I think people have this idea of Roughead being unable to play in defence at the bulldogs due to being thrown to the wolves back when the team was getting smashed under McCartney. The last time he played consistently in the backline was in 2015 and did a good job, he was then was moved into the ruck and at times forward from then on. I’ve posted in the past that I was thought his best role was a defender second ruck.

Having two players in their prime at two of the best clubs is clearly a coaching issue, given they sight a lack of enjoyment as the key reason for wanting to leave. In the article Roughead states the advantage of having new voices and ideas from the new coaches, but the bulldogs clearly think the same coaches every year is the way to go.


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[Braybrook Son]

Everyone getting their noses out of joint about Roughead, he was done at our club last two years. Struggled to get on the park and continually was getting smashed in the ruck most weeks. He’s gone to Collingwood and is playing a role in a very good defensive unit. He is only one injury from the end imo

 

[dergert]

Everyone getting their noses out of joint about Roughead, he was done at our club last two years. Struggled to get on the park and continually was getting smashed in the ruck most weeks. He’s gone to Collingwood and is playing a role in a very good defensive unit. He is only one injury from the end imo

While i appreciate what you're saying, i think Rough's undertone about beveridge and the club is majorly concerning.

I did not think we would be going through these issues again, 5 years ago.