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Bevo out

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mambavino said:
Even though Bevo said it with a smile on his face, the fact that the third-man up rule change even popped into his head in order to answer the question about ruck deficiencies is very concerning. Bevo, we get it, the rule change screwed with a tactic that was working well for us, but move on for chr**ts sake.

He spoke a little bit about the potential of recruiting a new backup ruckman, but then made excuses as to why that would be too hard. Essentially finished off by saying that the rest of the team, including those who are coming to the prime of their careers, will just have to wait, hope and pray that Tim English comes good in the next few years. All our eggs are in the Tim English basket. Bevo is prepared for the team to live and die on the strength of one players development.

I understand backing your man, but is he not putting way too much pressure on young shoulders?
Click to expand...
I’m having a hard time thinking...did English play every game this year?

Clearly I don’t wish injury on the lad but it would have been interesting to see what Bevo would have done. I honestly think he’d just tell Dunkley to deal with it.

I’d just love Bevo to be forced into watching us play with a competent ruckman. Im sure it would be such a resounding success that he couldn’t possibly go back.
 
mambavino said:
Even though Bevo said it with a smile on his face, the fact that the third-man up rule change even popped into his head in order to answer the question about ruck deficiencies is very concerning. Bevo, we get it, the rule change screwed with a tactic that was working well for us, but move on for chr**ts sake.

He spoke a little bit about the potential of recruiting a new backup ruckman, but then made excuses as to why that would be too hard. Essentially finished off by saying that the rest of the team, including those who are coming to the prime of their careers, will just have to wait, hope and pray that Tim English comes good in the next few years. All our eggs are in the Tim English basket. Bevo is prepared for the team to live and die on the strength of one players development.

I understand backing your man, but is he not putting way too much pressure on young shoulders?
Click to expand...

I can see his point of view. Players are wanting to leave there clubs because they want to be number 1 in that position. Say we bring in a number 1 ruckman for a couple of seasons whose to say that Tim won't want to leave so he can be the number 1 ruck.

I have seen it happen in Victorian baseball player leaving division 2 clubs because they want to play in the higher division.
 
Doggy Dan said:
Thing I’d love to ask Bevo directly is what it is he is so proud of with our playing group. He keeps harping on about how well they’ve held up to the adversity of the season.

Luke aside from the fact that every other team was in the same predicament so you not please for a second see the forest from the trees. The entirety of the world is going through adversity, your team were living in luxury, not out laying a cent, getting paid incredibly well to play a game the love in front of nobody in a comp running at a significant loss meaning fans will be paying for your “struggles” for years to come.

Not one mention of the bulldog fan base in his presser a vast majority of which have been literally locked up for a majority of the season and given up all of their freedoms to a point where the team can come back to Victoria with significantly reduced restrictions.

Everyone has been marooned from loved ones, many people have lost their jobs, stop making it out like the team are martyrs........please.
Click to expand...
It is hard to know what he would be proud of when you are watching the games from a box thousands of kms away. You would probably need to be around the side to have a greater insight. Tell me, can you provide me the link where Beveridge compares the adversity of a football season to the adversities that many are experiencing now? I am trying to make some kind of sense of your drivel.
 
gordo2016 said:
It is hard to know what he would be proud of when you are watching the games from a box thousands of kms away. You would probably need to be around the side to have a greater insight. Tell me, can you provide me the link where Beveridge compares the adversity of a football season to the adversities that many are experiencing now? I am trying to make some kind of sense of your drivel.
Click to expand...

It reeks of self entitlement doesn’t it.
 

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mackem said:
I can see his point of view. Players are wanting to leave there clubs because they want to be number 1 in that position. Say we bring in a number 1 ruckman for a couple of seasons whose to say that Tim won't want to leave so he can be the number 1 ruck.

I have seen it happen in Victorian baseball player leaving division 2 clubs because they want to play in the higher division.
Click to expand...
Don't think they would care if they were 1st or 2nd ruck as long as they knew they were best 22 and were consistently getting games.
The problem arises when one of them is stuck in the reserves.
 
Sharkey66 said:
Don't think they would care if they were 1st or 2nd ruck as long as they knew they were best 22 and were consistently getting games.
The problem arises when one of them is stuck in the reserves.
Click to expand...
Exactly. The main thing that would worry any rucks looking for a new home about signing for the Bulldogs would be Bevo’s apparent contempt for the ruck position in general. You’d have to seriously wonder if you could sign with the Dogs and never see a minute of senior action.
 
gordo2016 said:
It is hard to know what he would be proud of when you are watching the games from a box thousands of kms away. You would probably need to be around the side to have a greater insight. Tell me, can you provide me the link where Beveridge compares the adversity of a football season to the adversities that many are experiencing now? I am trying to make some kind of sense of your drivel.
Click to expand...

That is exactly my point that he is not comparing the struggles. Telling a bleeding heart story with no sense of the audience he’s telling it too. Read the room Bev!
 
We could play a game here and see how many rucks we can name around the comp who Bevo would play if he had them on our list.

My list is three players (NicNat, Gawn and Grundy), I genuinely don’t think he would play any others even if trade cost and salary were no object. If you don’t respect the position you’re not going to value any players except the genuinely elite ones.

Trengove has played hardly any games in two years, and Sweet isn’t getting a look in - even just to see what he could do, but no. How is a mature ruck going to a) get paid enough, and b) feel like they’ll get a fair crack at the selection table?

Forwards are the same. We’ve got multiple small forwards watching on while McLean, Lipinski, Roarke Smith(!), Suckling (!!) and now Crozier are played there. It’s complete negligence.

Maybe we can blame the mids for poor entries and the half back line for not supporting more when Caleb is isolated or opposition players are streaming out the back. Or maybe they’re just ****ing exhausted from carrying the entire load for the footy club for the past 3-4 years.
 
Not wanting to open a can of worms by bouncing this thread, but it's the first Bevo thread I could find (tbh I didn't look that hard!).

Anyway, I can't see him going anywhere, and with no change to assistants, it seems unlikely our game plan/structures/etc will drastically change either. So just to focus on some career stats for young Luke:

- if this had been a full season, he'd have passed Malthouse to be all-time 5th for games coached at our club;
- as it stands, he will pass Malthouse and Wallace next year, to move to 4th;
- assuming he coaches into 2022, he will get to outright second, passing Eade and Sutton;
- EJ is currently 94 games ahead, but with 4 good seasons, at least 1-2 finals in each (hopefully 3 one year and at least one flag!), Bevo could be outright leader by the end of the 2024 season. (Then he's less than 500 behind Malthouse overall, and a Jock McHale-like tenure after multiple flags would be on the cards.)
 
Glaeken Oracle said:
Not wanting to open a can of worms by bouncing this thread, but it's the first Bevo thread I could find (tbh I didn't look that hard!).

Anyway, I can't see him going anywhere, and with no change to assistants, it seems unlikely our game plan/structures/etc will drastically change either. So just to focus on some career stats for young Luke:

- if this had been a full season, he'd have passed Malthouse to be all-time 5th for games coached at our club;
- as it stands, he will pass Malthouse and Wallace next year, to move to 4th;
- assuming he coaches into 2022, he will get to outright second, passing Eade and Sutton;
- EJ is currently 94 games ahead, but with 4 good seasons, at least 1-2 finals in each (hopefully 3 one year and at least one flag!), Bevo could be outright leader by the end of the 2024 season. (Then he's less than 500 behind Malthouse overall, and a Jock McHale-like tenure after multiple flags would be on the cards.)
Click to expand...


I like your high hopes

1603022665103.png


o_O:):D
 
Glaeken Oracle said:
Not wanting to open a can of worms by bouncing this thread, but it's the first Bevo thread I could find (tbh I didn't look that hard!).

Anyway, I can't see him going anywhere, and with no change to assistants, it seems unlikely our game plan/structures/etc will drastically change either. So just to focus on some career stats for young Luke:

- if this had been a full season, he'd have passed Malthouse to be all-time 5th for games coached at our club;
- as it stands, he will pass Malthouse and Wallace next year, to move to 4th;
- assuming he coaches into 2022, he will get to outright second, passing Eade and Sutton;
- EJ is currently 94 games ahead, but with 4 good seasons, at least 1-2 finals in each (hopefully 3 one year and at least one flag!), Bevo could be outright leader by the end of the 2024 season. (Then he's less than 500 behind Malthouse overall, and a Jock McHale-like tenure after multiple flags would be on the cards.)
Click to expand...
No change of assistants? That would be negligent from our board if the same coaching panel were to continue. Our onfield problems are so obvious that no one on here even argues that English needs help for a start. That Caleb is caught out as our deepest defender too much. That selection is woeful often. This is why we need new voices around Bevo at the least.
 
Freshwater said:
No change of assistants? That would be negligent from our board if the same coaching panel were to continue. Our onfield problems are so obvious that no one on here even argues that English needs help for a start. That Caleb is caught out as our deepest defender too much. That selection is woeful often. This is why we need new voices around Bevo at the least.
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly, but going on the fact that most/all clubs seemed to have finalised their coaching panels for next year, and we have retained all the assistants that were not 'let go' a few months back, it seems we will have no change. I would be happily surprised if there were some new faces with fresh ideas brought in - but think that is a long shot now.
 

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The year is 2014. Ryan Griffen has requested a trade. The senior coach has resigned just 2 days later. Brownlow medalist Adam Cooney requests a trade whilst Shaun Higgins leaves for North Melbourne. Our CEO resigns.

Put yourself in this situation. Go back, remember what it was like.

Now. You're going to hire a coach who will instantly boost the club to finals. After an extremely close game you will lose to Adelaide, but don't worry. Because in 2016 you're going to win a flag, and sure, you'll then have to go through 2 painful years of not making finals but we'll be back again in 2019 and 2020.

But sure, let's sack the coach.
 
ThePhreshOne said:
The year is 2014. Ryan Griffen has requested a trade. The senior coach has resigned just 2 days later. Brownlow medalist Adam Cooney requests a trade whilst Shaun Higgins leaves for North Melbourne. Our CEO resigns.

Put yourself in this situation. Go back, remember what it was like.

Now. You're going to hire a coach who will instantly boost the club to finals. After an extremely close game you will lose to Adelaide, but don't worry. Because in 2016 you're going to win a flag, and sure, you'll then have to go through 2 painful years of not making finals but we'll be back again in 2019 and 2020.

But sure, let's sack the coach.
Click to expand...
Yep.

People have taken being making-finals-competitive granted for six years that they've forgotten what it's like to have no hope and be out of the finals race.

I hate fake-manufactured "hope". Creating a narrative of your youngsters, winning trades, because that has to fill the hole of winning about half or more of your games.

I want youngster's reserves form to be an afterthought, not something that we hang our hats on. I want our third-round draftees to be considered how they can be a role player, not how they can be the remotest of remote chance a saviour.

Bevo's taken a team that was all of that and given us a 55% win rate over 6 years.

Oh, and a flag.
 
Mutt said:
We are not rebuilding.
Click to expand...
In reality, after having another crack with the majority of our 2016 team in 2017, the rebuild started in 2018 - it has been a full ground up rebuild in the space of 2 and a half years, with two finals finishes in the process. That such a significant transition has gone so smoothly is probably why you think there hasn't been one.

We've turned over almost 70% of our list and 60%-65% of our top 22 since the premiership.

Compare that to the stable lists of the upcoming Grand Finalists who've simply added a few pieces to existing top 4 sides.

Look at Richmond's 2017 GF team and see how many of those guys have carried over into 2020 to get an idea of the stability they've enjoyed over the last 4 years:

AFL Tables - Adelaide v Richmond - Sat, 30-Sep-2017 2:30 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

An excellent analysis of the "continuity factor" was done by WallyStringhaus:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/reasons-to-be-excited-about-the-future.1200716/

Unlike Richmond which has had that continuity after that flag, in 2016 we were relying on a number of guys who were about to retire, exacerbated by some sh1t luck (Picken, T Boyd, Hamling, Clay Smith), some 50/50 calls that people will argue the merits of (Stringer, Dahlhaus) and poor decisions (Roughead).

Our poor recruiting and trades/recycled pick ups for barely any return (Sherman, Djerkurra, Vezpremi, Crameri, Young, Lower), in the mid-late 00s/early 2010s and Gold Coast/GWS having almost exclusive access to the best of a few drafts meant that our list didn't have the ready to go, battle hardened 23-27 year olds to replace the dozen outs from our starting 22 after the premiership. Instead those 12-14 outs from the premiership 22 were largely replaced by 17-21 year olds.

Inserting and relying on a dozen 17-22 years olds in such a short space of time is a rebuild in anyone's language.
Mutt said:
We are not particularly young.
Click to expand...
One of the youngest teams to *ever* make the finals last year - the numbers are barely believable (look at the attachment below). It's undoubtedly gone up this season with the addition of Keath and Bruce, but I very much doubt we would be among the top 6 oldest/most experienced in the 8.

And compared to the Grand Finalists, we are incredibly young. As an example, Geelong have 6-8 more 27+ year olds on their list/in their top 22 than we do.

We are reliant on a 20 year old key forward, a ruckman who's 2 years from his best, as well a number of other 19-22 year olds who are quite inconsistent.

Yes, you can blame Bevo/our list management team for going in with such a young list, but when the alternatives are but when the alternatives are trading our first and second rounders (Bailey Smith, Tim English, Naughton, Vandermeer) to have gotten older, I'd prefer our approach.
Mutt said:
We are just not good enough.
Click to expand...
I agree, for now.

Add a couple of good trade targets and another 20-40 games of experience to the youngest 15 players in this group and they will be good enough to challenge. IMO we'll win a couple of flags by 2026 - it won't be because Bevo magically became a better coach than he was this year.
Mutt said:
We haven't won a final in the four years since our flag. We have a 50/50 win-loss record since the Premiership. The bottom line is that we unexpectedly won a flag against all odds and then immediately became a bog ordinary team.
Click to expand...
I can think of a couple of dozen alternative coaches whose performances with this squad would have been much, much worse, if not catastrophic.

Which coach that was feasibly *available* do you think would have done a better job over the last four years, and what do you think would they have achieved?

Leon Cameron?

Ken Hinkley? Done exceptionaly well this year, but otherwise made finals once for one elimination loss since 2014.

Hardwick? Had a worse record than Bevo his first 6 years, with Cotchin, Martin, Rance, Reiwoldt and a dozen other future premiership players at his disposal.

Goodwin? Rhys Shaw? Nicks? Ross Lyon? Mark Williams? Brendan McCartney? It's all very easy to take pot shots, maybe put something on the line and tell us who we could feasibly been attainable and would have done a lot better with one of the youngest lists/top 22s in the comp across the last three seasons.

And this is a genuine question - you were one of the biggest defenders of McCartney on here, even after 3 years when he had a 30% win record (and at times won one in 20 games), you backed him to the hilt, yet the guy with a premiership record who makes finals twice out of three years during a rebuild has been up for constant criticism - how do these two views marry up? You can argue the list McCartney had was poorer, but the second guy turned a list that was probably destined to be bottom 6 under McCartney in 2015 into a premiership list within 22 months without too much tinkering.
 

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Guido said:
In reality, after having another crack with the majority of our 2016 team in 2017, the rebuild started in 2018 - it has been a full ground up rebuild in the space of 2 and a half years, with two finals finishes in the process. That such a significant transition has gone so smoothly is probably why you think there hasn't been one.

We've turned over almost 70% of our list and 60%-65% of our top 22 since the premiership.

Compare that to the stable lists of the upcoming Grand Finalists who've simply added a few pieces to existing top 4 sides.

Look at Richmond's 2017 GF team and see how many of those guys have carried over into 2020 to get an idea of the stability they've enjoyed over the last 4 years:

AFL Tables - Adelaide v Richmond - Sat, 30-Sep-2017 2:30 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

An excellent analysis of the "continuity factor" was done by WallyStringhaus:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/reasons-to-be-excited-about-the-future.1200716/

Unlike Richmond which has had that continuity after that flag, in 2016 we were relying on a number of guys who were about to retire, exacerbated by some sh1t luck (Picken, T Boyd, Hamling, Clay Smith), some 50/50 calls that people will argue the merits of (Stringer, Dahlhaus) and poor decisions (Roughead).

Our poor recruiting and trades/recycled pick ups for barely any return (Sherman, Djerkurra, Vezpremi, Crameri, Young, Lower), in the mid-late 00s/early 2010s and Gold Coast/GWS having almost exclusive access to the best of a few drafts meant that our list didn't have the ready to go, battle hardened 23-27 year olds to replace the dozen outs from our starting 22 after the premiership. Instead those 12-14 outs from the premiership 22 were largely replaced by 17-21 year olds.

Inserting and relying on a dozen 17-22 years olds in such a short space of time is a rebuild in anyone's language.

One of the youngest teams to *ever* make the finals last year - the numbers are barely believable (look at the attachment below). It's undoubtedly gone up this season with the addition of Keath and Bruce, but I very much doubt we would be among the top 6 oldest/most experienced in the 8.

And compared to the Grand Finalists, we are incredibly young. As an example, Geelong have 6-8 more 27+ year olds on their list/in their top 22 than we do.

We are reliant on a 20 year old key forward, a ruckman who's 2 years from his best, as well a number of other 19-22 year olds who are quite inconsistent.

Yes, you can blame Bevo/our list management team for going in with such a young list, but when the alternatives are but when the alternatives are trading our first and second rounders (Bailey Smith, Tim English, Naughton, Vandermeer) to have gotten older, I'd prefer our approach.

I agree, for now.

Add a couple of good trade targets and another 20-40 games of experience to the youngest 15 players in this group and they will be good enough to challenge. IMO we'll win a couple of flags by 2026 - it won't be because Bevo magically became a better coach than he was this year.

I can think of a couple of dozen alternative coaches whose performances with this squad would have been much, much worse, if not catastrophic.

Which coach that was feasibly *available* do you think would have done a better job over the last four years, and what do you think would they have achieved?

Leon Cameron?

Ken Hinkley? Done exceptionaly well this year, but otherwise made finals once for one elimination loss since 2014.

Hardwick? Had a worse record than Bevo his first 6 years, with Cotchin, Martin, Rance, Reiwoldt and a dozen other future premiership players at his disposal.

Goodwin? Rhys Shaw? Nicks? Ross Lyon? Mark Williams? Brendan McCartney? It's all very easy to take pot shots, maybe put something on the line and tell us who we could feasibly been attainable and would have done a lot better with one of the youngest lists/top 22s in the comp across the last three seasons.

And this is a genuine question - you were one of the biggest defenders of McCartney on here, even after 3 years when he had a 30% win record (and at times won one in 20 games), you backed him to the hilt, yet the guy with a premiership record who makes finals twice out of three years during a rebuild has been up for constant criticism - how do these two views marry up? You can argue the list McCartney had was poorer, but the second guy turned a list that was probably destined to be bottom 6 under McCartney in 2015 into a premiership list within 22 months without too much tinkering.
Click to expand...
You mistake me for someone who wants Beveridge sacked.

In my view I was not one of McCartney's biggest supporters.

I have never had blind faith in any Western Bulldogs coach...including McCartney and Beveridge. I could and still do see the relative strengths and weaknesses of them both. There is no perfect Coach. I am not perfect at my job. You probably aren't either. Beveridge is not perfect. So we are discussing matters of degree here. I get the impression that you are a very strong supporter of Beveridge who thinks he is exceptional. My view is that he has significant deficits that are not helping us to achieve with this list all that we should be. It's not a train wreck by any means...but it's not a completely satisfactory set of results for us over the past four seasons.

You think there are many mitigating circumstances as to why we have a less than stellar set of outcomes since winning the flag. I think most of the circumstances used to defend Beveridge are self-inflicted by the club to some degree.

You and I will probably never agree on much when it comes to football it seems. I'm not interested in a prolonged argument with you. I'm happy to agree to disagree.
 

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ThePhreshOne said:
The year is 2014. Ryan Griffen has requested a trade. The senior coach has resigned just 2 days later. Brownlow medalist Adam Cooney requests a trade whilst Shaun Higgins leaves for North Melbourne. Our CEO resigns.

Put yourself in this situation. Go back, remember what it was like.

Now. You're going to hire a coach who will instantly boost the club to finals. After an extremely close game you will lose to Adelaide, but don't worry. Because in 2016 you're going to win a flag, and sure, you'll then have to go through 2 painful years of not making finals but we'll be back again in 2019 and 2020.

But sure, let's sack the coach.
Click to expand...
And the best and fairest does his knee in the pre-season
 
Guido said:
In reality, after having another crack with the majority of our 2016 team in 2017, the rebuild started in 2018 - it has been a full ground up rebuild in the space of 2 and a half years, with two finals finishes in the process. That such a significant transition has gone so smoothly is probably why you think there hasn't been one.

We've turned over almost 70% of our list and 60%-65% of our top 22 since the premiership.

Compare that to the stable lists of the upcoming Grand Finalists who've simply added a few pieces to existing top 4 sides.

Look at Richmond's 2017 GF team and see how many of those guys have carried over into 2020 to get an idea of the stability they've enjoyed over the last 4 years:

AFL Tables - Adelaide v Richmond - Sat, 30-Sep-2017 2:30 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

An excellent analysis of the "continuity factor" was done by WallyStringhaus:

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/reasons-to-be-excited-about-the-future.1200716/

Unlike Richmond which has had that continuity after that flag, in 2016 we were relying on a number of guys who were about to retire, exacerbated by some sh1t luck (Picken, T Boyd, Hamling, Clay Smith), some 50/50 calls that people will argue the merits of (Stringer, Dahlhaus) and poor decisions (Roughead).

Our poor recruiting and trades/recycled pick ups for barely any return (Sherman, Djerkurra, Vezpremi, Crameri, Young, Lower), in the mid-late 00s/early 2010s and Gold Coast/GWS having almost exclusive access to the best of a few drafts meant that our list didn't have the ready to go, battle hardened 23-27 year olds to replace the dozen outs from our starting 22 after the premiership. Instead those 12-14 outs from the premiership 22 were largely replaced by 17-21 year olds.

Inserting and relying on a dozen 17-22 years olds in such a short space of time is a rebuild in anyone's language.

One of the youngest teams to *ever* make the finals last year - the numbers are barely believable (look at the attachment below). It's undoubtedly gone up this season with the addition of Keath and Bruce, but I very much doubt we would be among the top 6 oldest/most experienced in the 8.

And compared to the Grand Finalists, we are incredibly young. As an example, Geelong have 6-8 more 27+ year olds on their list/in their top 22 than we do.

We are reliant on a 20 year old key forward, a ruckman who's 2 years from his best, as well a number of other 19-22 year olds who are quite inconsistent.

Yes, you can blame Bevo/our list management team for going in with such a young list, but when the alternatives are but when the alternatives are trading our first and second rounders (Bailey Smith, Tim English, Naughton, Vandermeer) to have gotten older, I'd prefer our approach.

I agree, for now.

Add a couple of good trade targets and another 20-40 games of experience to the youngest 15 players in this group and they will be good enough to challenge. IMO we'll win a couple of flags by 2026 - it won't be because Bevo magically became a better coach than he was this year.

I can think of a couple of dozen alternative coaches whose performances with this squad would have been much, much worse, if not catastrophic.

Which coach that was feasibly *available* do you think would have done a better job over the last four years, and what do you think would they have achieved?

Leon Cameron?

Ken Hinkley? Done exceptionaly well this year, but otherwise made finals once for one elimination loss since 2014.

Hardwick? Had a worse record than Bevo his first 6 years, with Cotchin, Martin, Rance, Reiwoldt and a dozen other future premiership players at his disposal.

Goodwin? Rhys Shaw? Nicks? Ross Lyon? Mark Williams? Brendan McCartney? It's all very easy to take pot shots, maybe put something on the line and tell us who we could feasibly been attainable and would have done a lot better with one of the youngest lists/top 22s in the comp across the last three seasons.

And this is a genuine question - you were one of the biggest defenders of McCartney on here, even after 3 years when he had a 30% win record (and at times won one in 20 games), you backed him to the hilt, yet the guy with a premiership record who makes finals twice out of three years during a rebuild has been up for constant criticism - how do these two views marry up? You can argue the list McCartney had was poorer, but the second guy turned a list that was probably destined to be bottom 6 under McCartney in 2015 into a premiership list within 22 months without too much tinkering.
Click to expand...
F#cking love it! well said
 
Some of this is veering towards a conversation akin to American politics (I think part of the problem is the title of the thread - if it said “coaching issues/concerns” or similar maybe it would be better).

If someone says “I have concerns about our coaching set up, maybe Bevo needs different voices around him and imo he has a blind spot around something (ruck, defensive structures or whatever)” that does not mean that person wants Bevo sacked. So to attack that poster as if they want Bevo sacked doesn’t seem like it’s constructive.

I’m in the camp that opines he needs some fresh ideas, he’s a bit stubborn and has blind spots relating to the ruck and team selection more broadly. I also think he should remain our coach for the foreseeable future. Is it ok to have those opinions? Are they contradictory?

My guess is there are at least some people who think similarly, and another group who are more pro-Bevo but realise there might be one or two small issues to resolve. Then there will be a very small minority who think he should be sacked and he’s rubbish, and an equally small group who think he’s never made a poor team selection or coaching decision in his career. I’m not sure why some people feel the need to treat posters in the first two groups as if they’re in one of the last two.
 
hutchy31 said:
Some of this is veering towards a conversation akin to American politics (I think part of the problem is the title of the thread - if it said “coaching issues/concerns” or similar maybe it would be better).

If someone says “I have concerns about our coaching set up, maybe Bevo needs different voices around him and imo he has a blind spot around something (ruck, defensive structures or whatever)” that does not mean that person wants Bevo sacked. So to attack that poster as if they want Bevo sacked doesn’t seem like it’s constructive.

I’m in the camp that opines he needs some fresh ideas, he’s a bit stubborn and has blind spots relating to the ruck and team selection more broadly. I also think he should remain our coach for the foreseeable future. Is it ok to have those opinions? Are they contradictory?

My guess is there are at least some people who think similarly, and another group who are more pro-Bevo but realise there might be one or two small issues to resolve. Then there will be a very small minority who think he should be sacked and he’s rubbish, and an equally small group who think he’s never made a poor team selection or coaching decision in his career. I’m not sure why some people feel the need to treat posters in the first two groups as if they’re in one of the last two.
Click to expand...
There's another thread about coaching changes. Similar posts. The Coach is reputed to be a dictator and the assistant coaches a bunch of wimpy yes-men. Where does that come from ? What evidence is there ? Just because an accusation is oft repeated, that doesn't make it fact.
 
D Mitchell said:
There's another thread about coaching changes. Similar posts. The Coach is reputed to be a dictator and the assistant coaches a bunch of wimpy yes-men. Where does that come from ? What evidence is there ? Just because an accusation is oft repeated, that doesn't make it fact.
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I have said this before that if people have absolute proof that Bevo is a dictator and won't listen to other opinions then show us.
 
D Mitchell said:
There's another thread about coaching changes. Similar posts. The Coach is reputed to be a dictator and the assistant coaches a bunch of wimpy yes-men. Where does that come from ? What evidence is there ? Just because an accusation is oft repeated, that doesn't make it fact.
Click to expand...

mackem said:
I have said this before that if people have absolute proof that Bevo is a dictator and won't listen to other opinions then show us.
Click to expand...

It’s opinion, aren’t these forums based on us having one? We’re not allowed to opine unless we have inside information that backs it up - presumably from multiple sources to ensure veracity? High standard here, way higher than basically every AFL journalist operating.

Incidentally, I don’t think he’s necessarily a dictator or that he’s surrounded by yes men, but I don’t think it’s heresy to suggest changes to footy departments or coaching groups could resolve some issues. How practical that is given changes to the soft cap and existing contracts is another question, but I’d have thought that this isn’t a ludicrous opinion to have.

Maybe this isn’t the right thread for this discussion given the incendiary title, which is a fair point. It is noticeable, however, that the loss of nuance in relating to other opinions that has destroyed the main board is creeping into this board too. If we can’t critique list management, coaching and player performance/potential without it descending into conflict almost every time that would be unfortunate.
 
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