Bevo out

[D Mitchell]

It’s opinion, aren’t these forums based on us having one? We’re not allowed to opine unless we have inside information that backs it up - presumably from multiple sources to ensure veracity? High standard here, way higher than basically every AFL journalist operating.

Incidentally, I don’t think he’s necessarily a dictator or that he’s surrounded by yes men, but I don’t think it’s heresy to suggest changes to footy departments or coaching groups could resolve some issues. How practical that is given changes to the soft cap and existing contracts is another question, but I’d have thought that this isn’t a ludicrous opinion to have.

Maybe this isn’t the right thread for this discussion given the incendiary title, which is a fair point. It is noticeable, however, that the loss of nuance in relating to other opinions that has destroyed the main board is creeping into this board too. If we can’t critique list management, coaching and player performance/potential without it descending into conflict almost every time that would be unfortunate.

Steady on, sport, we are all on your side. Opinions are just that. But it comes over as if it's a fact, not an opinion. The trouble with the Dictator Bevo and wimpey assistants theory is that it's beginning to look like accepted fact. Until another coach comes along who can get us into the finals with teams with more promise than presence, 4 out of 6 years and snag a Flag, he's God.

 

[Mattdougie]

Steady on, sport, we are all on your side. Opinions are just that. But it comes over as if it's a fact, not an opinion. The trouble with the Dictator Bevo and wimpey assistants theory is that it's beginning to look like accepted fact. Until another coach comes along who can get us into the finals with teams with more promise than presence, 4 out of 6 years and snag a Flag, he's God.

Montgomery and Dalrymple both made a stand against Bev and are both gone.

I think there is more than just fluff to the theory and regardless not having any new assistants for what will now be 7 years would be a record by a long way

 

[hutchy31]

Steady on, sport, we are all on your side. Opinions are just that. But it comes over as if it's a fact, not an opinion. The trouble with the Dictator Bevo and wimpey assistants theory is that it's beginning to look like accepted fact. Until another coach comes along who can get us into the finals with teams with more promise than presence, 4 out of 6 years and snag a Flag, he's God.

Fair enough.

I know some of the language here is a bit flippant, but just as he’s not likely to be a “dictator with wimpy assistants” he’s also not infallible either. Which is kind of my point about nuance.

Someone made the point earlier in the thread that this record is way better than the majority of coaches out there at the time of his hiring or since - absolutely true, and he should remain our coach for the foreseeable future. But you could also frame the 4 out of 6 finals years/one flag as one flag (great year)/three EF losses/two misses. Personally I still think that’s an impressive CV, but I can understand frustrations with a few things that at least some people think are holding the team back.

No point litigating those again, but if the same issues are prevalent next year then the noise will inevitably increase - rightly or wrongly.

 

[D Mitchell]

Montgomery and Dalrymple both made a stand against Bev and are both gone.

I think there is more than just fluff to the theory and regardless not having any new assistants for what will now be 7 years would be a record by a long way

Montgomery and Dalrymple both made a stand against Bev and are both gone.

I think there is more than just fluff to the theory and regardless not having any new assistants for what will now be 7 years would be a record by a long way

Opinions are fine but.. my mail is that
(a) Monty was p....d off with missing out; and
(b) no adverse mail on Dal, from all accounts a good bloke and exceptional recruiter/list manager, almost as good as Sam.

The senior Coach lives or dies by what he produces. Bev's not only the best we've ever had but did it at different levels before he arrived.

 

[D Mitchell]

Fair enough.

I know some of the language here is a bit flippant, but just as he’s not likely to be a “dictator with wimpy assistants” he’s also not infallible either. Which is kind of my point about nuance.

Someone made the point earlier in the thread that this record is way better than the majority of coaches out there at the time of his hiring or since - absolutely true, and he should remain our coach for the foreseeable future. But you could also frame the 4 out of 6 finals years/one flag as one flag (great year)/three EF losses/two misses. Personally I still think that’s an impressive CV, but I can understand frustrations with a few things that at least some people think are holding the team back.

No point litigating those again, but if the same issues are prevalent next year then the noise will inevitably increase - rightly or wrongly.

Hello, fellow poster, your username is ambiguous. I think we are in heated agreement. Crickey, even Jesus Christ had a probation period, alright, it was for 2,000 year s but you get the point.

 

[Dry Rot]

This is the first time I have ever checked out this thread.

From first glance at the title, I thought it was about some mail about Bevo outing himself as a homosexual.

Nothing wrong with that, but I see it is actually about some folk who are not happy with him as a coach.

Play on....

 

[lachy]

There's another thread about coaching changes. Similar posts. The Coach is reputed to be a dictator and the assistant coaches a bunch of wimpy yes-men. Where does that come from ? What evidence is there ? Just because an accusation is oft repeated, that doesn't make it fact.

I have been critical of poor team selection, some player development etc but on top of what you have rightly pointed out does Bev also pick the team each week himself? I always enjoy the sack the forwards coach because of goal kicking.

I am of the belief a review of the coaching department should take place every year and of the football department every 3 years as part of good management and process but some criticism is just strange. This is one of the hardest most even professional comps in the world. We are not one of the big boys yet have been more than competitive since Bev has been coach. Yes we need to review and improve each year, but at least let that be done by people who have knowledge of what is actually happening

 

[total football]

Opinions are fine but.. my mail is that
(a) Monty was p....d off with missing out; and
(b) no adverse mail on Dal, from all accounts a good bloke and exceptional recruiter/list manager, almost as good as Sam.

The senior Coach lives or dies by what he produces. Bev's not only the best we've ever had but did it at different levels before he arrived.

But does he? And is he?

Beveridge was handed a long-term deal last season when we were looking like potential bottom four and had failed to qualify for finals in the previous two seasons.

He has won four finals in five years at the helm.

His game plan has not evolved in five years and it is hurting what we can all agree is a pretty talented list.

Everyone here knows that this list is better than 8-12th.

 

[dogwatch]

...

Everyone here knows that this list is better than 8-12th.

That's not a universal opinion here.

 

[lachy]

Everyone here knows that this list is better than 8-12th.

Not true at all. Maybe a little better but definitely not a top 4 list.

Most forget in 2016 there were 7 top 4 teams

 

[josh the gent]

Personally I think this thread should be locked.

Or even deleted

Are you so precious?

I don’t think Bevo is the right leader for our club, that’s my view. You don’t agree with me, and that’s ok - but am I not allowed to have my view about Bevo?!

Do we live in 1950’s USSR?!!

Respectfully debating the coach’s ongoing suitability seems pretty fair subject matter for big footy...

 

[BEaston]

Everyone here knows that this list is better than 8-12th.

We've finished 7th the last two years.

 

[josh the gent]

The year is 2014. Ryan Griffen

Ryan Griffen

Age

39

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.1

5star

K

11.6

4star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.7

5star

CL

3.9

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.4

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.2

3star

has requested a trade. The senior coach has resigned just 2 days later. Brownlow medalist Adam Cooney

Adam Cooney

Age

40

Ht

187cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.7

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

10.2

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.8

4star

requests a trade whilst Shaun Higgins

4

Shaun Higgins

Age

37

Ht

184cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.4

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.0

4star

D

21.8

5star

K

10.3

4star

HB

11.5

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.6

4star

G

0.1

3star

D

12.0

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

4.8

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.6

3star

leaves for North Melbourne. Our CEO resigns.

Put yourself in this situation. Go back, remember what it was like.

Now. You're going to hire a coach who will instantly boost the club to finals. After an extremely close game you will lose to Adelaide, but don't worry. Because in 2016 you're going to win a flag, and sure, you'll then have to go through 2 painful years of not making finals but we'll be back again in 2019 and 2020.

But sure, let's sack the coach.

Perhaps consider another prism to look at it through.

No doubt Bevo is an exceptional motivator. He came in, motivated the 2015-16 teams, and got them using a defensive web (along with some other tactical items that worked well at that time - third man up, etc).

It worked brilliantly - but don’t forget that it wasn’t really Bevo’s list, nor were the players shaped over years in the way Bevo wanted to play.

Indeed they were shaped to win the hard ball under McCartney.

However this is now unquestionably Bevo’s list, 6 years in - systems and style of play are all Bevo.

Massive warning signs that it’s not working - most prominently that we only managed to beat West Coast (who rested 4 key players from that match) in the top 8 this year.

In those top 8 games we were actually uncompetitive in an alarming number of quarters.

Feels like we’re way off.

Regardless of those 4 magical weeks 4 years ago - Bevo should not be above scrutiny.

 

[total football]

That's not a universal opinion here.

Not true at all. Maybe a little better but definitely not a top 4 list.

Most forget in 2016 there were 7 top 4 teams

Where do you guys think our list ranks on paper?

We've finished 7th the last two years.

And we also finished 13th in 2018.

The point I'm making is less about final ladder position and more about the fact that we have now bowed out of finals in the first round for two years running. Do you think our list is better than a first round finals exit or do you hold the view that we were lucky to get there?

Also curious, where did we finish in 2015?

 

[Bald]

Perhaps consider another prism to look at it through.

No doubt Bevo is an exceptional motivator. He came in, motivated the 2015-16 teams, and got them using a defensive web (along with some other tactical items that worked well at that time - third man up, etc).

It worked brilliantly - but don’t forget that it wasn’t really Bevo’s list, nor were the players shaped over years in the way Bevo wanted to play.

Indeed they were shaped to win the hard ball under McCartney.

However this is now unquestionably Bevo’s list, 6 years in - systems and style of play are all Bevo.

Massive warning signs that it’s not working - most prominently that we only managed to beat West Coast (who rested 4 key players from that match) in the top 8 this year.

In those top 8 games we were actually uncompetitive in an alarming number of quarters.

Feels like we’re way off.

Regardless of those 4 magical weeks 4 years ago - Bevo should not be above scrutiny.

He’s not above scrutiny. But he’s also not at a point where he should be sacked either.

 

[dogwatch]

Where do you guys think our list ranks on paper?
...

The point I'm making is less about final ladder position and more about the fact that we have now bowed out of finals in the first round for two years running. Do you think our list is better than a first round finals exit or do you hold the view that we were lucky to get there?

...

I'm more in line with your thinking, i.e. that we should be in contention for a top 4 spot. I was just alerting you to the fact that a number of people here have expressed good reasons why they think we're just a middle-ranked side (fringe of the 8, roughly). For all I know they could be right.

I do think we are still one or two quality players short of where we want to be but we will get organic improvement as the side matures and gets more experience. All those years of continually being the youngest side running out each week surely have to end if we can keep the list together. Just look at the age and years of experience of this year's grand finalists. We have those opportunities still in front of us.

I'm not ready to throw Bevo out but I do think we need to throw out the bathwater ... before somebody drinks it.

 

[josh the gent]

He’s not above scrutiny. But he’s also not at a point where he should be sacked either.

So where is “the point” upon which he should be sacked?

Is it when Bont is 29 and we’ve finished 5-8 consistently?

Wasn’t much progress this year and time’s a ticking...

 

[Mattdougie]

So where is “the point” upon which he should be sacked?

Is it when Bont is 29 and we’ve finished 5-8 consistently?

Wasn’t much progress this year and time’s a ticking...

with no change in assistants I see no change in results next year so imo if Bevot the clubby then aren’t prepared to make significant changes to the coaxing panel then I think time to move on becomes a real talking point.

Even though we cannot live in 16 Bev has to be given points for the flag but this panel has shown it’s not capable of forming a consistent, coherent gameplan and structure for 4 years now and next year of it goes to my thinking will be 5.

IF The list is as good as some suggest then we are underperforming and that is on Bev and the coaches. I actually don’t think the list is a contending list and we finish about where we belong but I can’t accept the inconsistencies and arrogance of the decisions and selections made as they are at times WRFL div 3 quality coaching.

 

[Bald]

So where is “the point” upon which he should be sacked?

Is it when Bont is 29 and we’ve finished 5-8 consistently?

Wasn’t much progress this year and time’s a ticking...

I’ll leave that up to the powers that be, not a bunch of uneducated plebs on a forum

 

[lachy]

Where do you guys think our list ranks on paper?

6th to 10th. Really with 1 to 2 players developing like Williams did this year, our best 28 staying fit and another 1 to 2 role players being brought in we are not far away from a top 4 list but we are not there yet.

 

[total football]

I’ll leave that up to the powers that be, not a bunch of uneducated plebs on a forum

Do you really trust the 'powers that be', i.e. management of a club that has failed to win a cup in 93 of the last 95 seasons?

 

[dogwatch]

I’ll leave that up to the powers that be, not a bunch of uneducated plebs on a forum

Lol [/forum]

 

[Virgin Dog]

Where do you guys think our list ranks on paper?



And we also finished 13th in 2018.

The point I'm making is less about final ladder position and more about the fact that we have now bowed out of finals in the first round for two years running. Do you think our list is better than a first round finals exit or do you hold the view that we were lucky to get there?

Also curious, where did we finish in 2015?

On paper, I would rate our list 5th to 8th. I think the only reason we're not performing higher is because of the lack of depth in our coaching panel. I trust that Bevo is the right person at the helm, but we've become stale among the assistant coaching panel.

If we're going to keep Gia and Smith around (I'd like fresh minds from outside the club), I'd get Gia running our forward line again and Smith the defence. Bring back Corey, move Hansen and King on and bring in a good senior assistant from elsewhere. Whether that be Voss if he doesn't get the North role, or someone else

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Where do you guys think our list ranks on paper?

About 6-10th. That's only due to experience. There are only a handful of rare teams that get anywhere near the top without their best players being 27+. We don't even get to have our fringe players in that range. Tried trading around it with Bruce and Keath, but the only real solution is time.

We're getting close. We did well last year to keep the group together, from the sounds of it we're doing well again this year. If we have a fit team next year there's no excuses to miss the 8, and the year after we should expect to get into that top 5 area.

 

[Bald]

Do you really trust the 'powers that be', i.e. management of a club that has failed to win a cup in 93 of the last 95 seasons?

Yes.