Bevo out

[DKP1]

I’m just like everyone else on here, someone with an opinion. Bevo is not free from fault, but I can’t see a case for getting rid of him. Hardwick and Buckley have similar stories.

What logic and reason have I not accepted?

Who are you to say another coach would do better? You don’t have a crystal ball.

I'm not saying any specific coach could, I just take issue with you insinuating there's nobody who could do better, and insisting that Beveridge is not one of our problems.

This same discussion was probably had about McCartney several times from 2012-2014, and I'm sure there were people like you saying:

"Name someone who is willing to come and take over from Macca who will be better than him. Anyone?"

"Perhaps we need some changes with the people around him, but I can’t understand the calls for Macca’s head. Just cannot."

Perhaps we should've just kept McCartney and not improved in 2015? And not go on to win the flag in 2016?

 

[Philthy1]

I'm not saying any specific coach could, I just take issue with you insinuating there's nobody who could do better, and insisting that Beveridge is not one of our problems.

This same discussion was probably had about McCartney several times from 2012-2014, and I'm sure there were people like you saying:

"Name someone who is willing to come and take over from Macca who will be better than him. Anyone?"

"Perhaps we need some changes with the people around him, but I can’t understand the calls for Macca’s head. Just cannot."

Perhaps we should've just kept McCartney and not improved in 2015? And not go on to win the flag in 2016?

I am just as frustrated as everyone else with where we are at given the quality midfield we have. We can and should be doing better. I just don’t happen to think the risk of removing Bevo is worth it Right now. Perhaps we should agree to disagree about that.

I wasn’t in the country at the McCartney time and wasn’t really following the club because i was too far removed, but I am sure there were people arguing to keep him. Different set of circumstances perhaps.

 

[Mattdougie]

I am just as frustrated as everyone else with where we are at given the quality midfield we have. We can and should be doing better. I just don’t happen to think the risk of removing Bevo is worth it Right now. Perhaps we should agree to disagree about that.

I wasn’t in the country at the McCartney time and wasn’t really following the club because i was too far removed, but I am sure there were people arguing to keep him. Different set of circumstances perhaps.

My biggest issue with Bevo now is his weekly spin after bad losses is exactly the same excuses as mid 17.

I don’t want him sacked but I do want him to accept a new team around him and if that happens I can’t see why we wouldn’t have an immediate improvement.

 

[Dogsbestfriend]

Seems like that is what has happened at Port. Ken is the motivator and is handling less of the tactical stuff. Bassett is/was highly rated as a coach, so wonder if he has taken on more of that type of stuff.
I get the feeling Brisbane roll with that as well given Fagan is always on the bench mostly taking notes while players come off and talk on phone to assistants upstairs.

Don’t forget Montgomery at Port also as a tactician

 

[Dogsbestfriend]

Bevo stays for mine

We are still young unbalanced and inexperienced

The likes of English Naughton Smith West Vandermeer Weightman will hit their straps over the next few years while players like Bont Macrae Libba Wallis Keath and Bruce won’t even be 30.

 

[josh the gent]

Bevo stays for mine

We are still young unbalanced and inexperienced

The likes of English Naughton Smith West Vandermeer Weightman will hit their straps over the next few years while players like Bont Macrae Libba Wallis Keath and Bruce won’t even be 30.

I’m not sure that we’re so young anymore. Median games in some of our last couple of games:

WB 92.5
Rich 38.5

WB 82.5
Port 93.5

Point being, that our excellent list is very quickly approaching “prime”, but we are not playing anywhere near a top 2 level.

I don’t believe it is an issue from lack of list quality - for me this is primarily about our game plan that:
a) has been worked out by opposition teams post-2016
b) only works well in dry / non-dewy conditions

Can Bevo re-invent it?

 

[BIG_BONTS]

I see a lot of people talking about how we are not suited or haven't adapted our 'gameplan' from Melbourne conditions. How is this a surprise? We're not used to it. Our players live, train and plan for Melbourne conditions in the pre-season AND we're doing next to no training throughout the week...

We must remember that this Gold Coast situation is temporary, not something we need to completely lose our minds over and sack the coach.

When the game returns to Melbourne, I 100% agree without any changes/improvement we'll be a better side due to the conditions we're playing in.. from where we are now that's a Top 4-6 side. How can you not be happy with that?

 

[BEaston]

I’m not sure that we’re so young anymore. Median games in some of our last couple of games:

WB 92.5
Rich 38.5

WB 82.5
Port 93.5

Point being, that our excellent list is very quickly approaching “prime”, but we are not playing anywhere near a top 2 level.

I don’t believe it is an issue from lack of list quality - for me this is primarily about our game plan that:
a) has been worked out by opposition teams post-2016
b) only works well in dry / non-dewy conditions

Can Bevo re-invent it?

small sample size.
Over the season, you'll see we've been fielding consistently younger sides than the oppo. We've only had a more experienced side twice.
We've had injuries to some of our more experienced guys throughout the year which hasn't helped; Lloyd, Suckling, Duryea, Hunter, Crozier.
Even disregarding injuries though, our list as a whole is fairly young, ranked 12th for games played. So even if we had a best 22 every week, odds are we're still going to be less experienced a lot of the time.
When you look at the most experienced lists:
Geelong
Collingwood
Hawthorn
West Coast
Port Adelaide
Greater Western Sydney
Richmond
North Melbourne
With the exception of North and Hawks (who have overcooked their lists by trading away youth/draft picks), these are all teams that are competing at the pointy end this year.

Completely disagree with the statement that we are quickly approaching our prime. Still two years off it. The only players who are legit in their primes are Wallis and Crozier (maybe Duryea). Macrae is the closest to hitting his prime/might be entering it now. Hunter similar to Macrae if his season wasn't railroaded.
Bont, Daniel, Smith, Naughton, McLean, Cordy, Dunkley, English, Williams, Lipinski, Richards are all younger than 25. This is a big part of our best 22 each week.

 

[mackem]

I disagree that Bevo should be sacked.

People need to remember that this is a season like no other with the club stationed in Queensland, shortened quarters, no proper training and short breaks between games.

I can understand peoples frustration when either certain players getting selected or not. There maybe legitimate reason for such selections or non-selection. We are not privy to the match committee meetings.

 

[mambavino]

The concern for me is that even in the games we've won I don't think we've gotten anywhere near recapturing the form we displayed at the end of last year. Obviously there is some extenuating circumstances this season that could play into that, but there's no shying away from the fact that at this point in the season we've gone backwards in a big big way.

While ousting Bevo is extremely unlikely, this unusual season can't be used as a reason for complacency. We have to change the coaching staff and structure under him and he has to get on board with it. We need renewal as things have clearly gotten stale.

 

[immortalmike]

What makes me think that Beveridge shouldn't be sacked is that the guy can obviously coach. His biggest problem is that he seems to think he's the only guy that can coach. Get some humility like he had in his first two seasons and some new ideas and I think it'll do the world of good.

Honestly don't think this is even a failure of Beveridge. It is a failure of Grant and Gordon.

 

[True Dog]

What makes me think that Beveridge shouldn't be sacked is that the guy can obviously coach. His biggest problem is that he seems to think he's the only guy that can coach. Get some humility like he had in his first two seasons and some new ideas and I think it'll do the world of good.

Honestly don't think this is even a failure of Beveridge. It is a failure of Grant and Gordon.

1000% Agree IM

 

[Unorth]

What makes me think that Beveridge shouldn't be sacked is that the guy can obviously coach. His biggest problem is that he seems to think he's the only guy that can coach. Get some humility like he had in his first two seasons and some new ideas and I think it'll do the world of good.

Honestly don't think this is even a failure of Beveridge. It is a failure of Grant and Gordon.

Completely agree with this take. He's more then proven capable. And it's not like there's Bulldogs premiership coaches growing on trees. The guy has credit in the bank for good reason.

But they need to step in and exert a bit of authority. Bevo's a madman, sometimes that's great, sometimes it gets gowers and gardner picked. He needs some kind of voice in there to intervene. He won't like it but it needs to be done. The coaching situation has been stagnant. Forward line been an issue for ages. Knowing that we likely have our three draftees locked up this year, I think all the focus should be on the assistant coaches. Seeing some changes in the box is what I'm more interested in seeing than changes on the list. Grant, Gordon and co would be well aware by now what Bevo's strengths and limitations are. Build around them, don't just pretend that said limitations don't exist.

 

[dogwatch]

Completely agree with this take. He's more then proven capable. And it's not like there's Bulldogs premiership coaches growing on trees. The guy has credit in the bank for good reason.

But they need to step in and exert a bit of authority. Bevo's a madman, sometimes that's great, sometimes it gets gowers and gardner picked. He needs some kind of voice in there to intervene. He won't like it but it needs to be done. The coaching situation has been stagnant. Forward line been an issue for ages. Knowing that we likely have our three draftees locked up this year, I think all the focus should be on the assistant coaches. Seeing some changes in the box is what I'm more interested in seeing than changes on the list. Grant, Gordon and co would be well aware by now what Bevo's strengths and limitations are. Build around them, don't just pretend that said limitations don't exist.

When we discuss prospective assistant coaches we often limit our discussions to those doing that role at other clubs (e.g. Caracella). The problem is the good ones are mostly committed or they are in great demand so we have to stand in line with a big offer (hard to do when the soft cap is being reduced).

However blokes like Caracella are coming through all the time. There must be some cluey blokes who want to get into coaching who haven't yet started - recent retirees or players who might be retiring this year. If we had a fairly substantial refresh of assistant coaches I'd be happy to see us try one of these types (as well as a more experienced one). One proviso - must NOT be a recent Dogs retiree. We have too much of that already.

One further thought: if you are a Caracella type who thinks you are ready but haven't quite cracked it to be an AFL senior coach what would you be looking for? I'd say it's a club that has all the makings but is lacking tactical nous and innovation. If you arrive at a club like that as a senior assistant coach and quickly turned things around - help them to a flag or at least to become a top four power - then people will start coming at you with a chequebook.

For that reason we should be an attractive proposition, in contrast to if we were in North's or Hawthorn's situation.

 

[Wocka]

Unfortunatly there is not much Grant can do.

After 2016 Peter Gordon went from Bevo's boss to his # 1 fan.

Nothing will change till Pete hands over the reins.

 

[bullish23]

I’m not sure that we’re so young anymore. Median games in some of our last couple of games:

WB 92.5
Rich 38.5

WB 82.5
Port 93.5

Point being, that our excellent list is very quickly approaching “prime”, but we are not playing anywhere near a top 2 level.

I don’t believe it is an issue from lack of list quality - for me this is primarily about our game plan that:
a) has been worked out by opposition teams post-2016
b) only works well in dry / non-dewy conditions

Can Bevo re-invent it?

The younger Richmond players who have looked good, are surrounded by a top 6 that includes 200 games guns in Martin, Reiwoldt, Cotchin, Martin, Lambert and Grimes.

Our top 6 aren’t even at 150 games besides Macrae who just hit that milestone. That’s the difference.

 

[Libba39]

It's times like these I'm comforted by the notion that clubs pay zero attention to what is said here...

 

[Maverick Dog]

I see the major issue is whether Bevo is willing to change. Buckley and Hardwick have both reinvented themselves and greatly benefited having help and sharing the load. Is Bevo too arrogant to admit he needs help on the tactical side of the game. Our game plan changed significantly in 2015. This is the year we played our most exciting football and the players gained belief. In 2016 our style was not as attractive but it withheld pressure and the players have belief.

our list is superior now than in 2016 but we have a fundamental problem in transitioning the ball into the F50, we allow too many uncontested marks and our defenders concentrate too much on space rather than be aware their opponent has slipped out the back.

it is obvious to all our coaching panel needs a rejig and a senior assistant needs to be employed to help with the game plan. Let’s hope the club and Bevo realise this. It is quite well known in the industry that Caracella had a large hand in transforming Richmonds game plan. The question is can we find someone similar and leave Bevo to the relationship side of things

 

[mackem]

Everyone says that Bevo picks Gowers & Gardner but there other people on the match committee as well. So how does everyone know it's Bevo fault they get selected. He is just one vote.

 

[josh the gent]

small sample size.
Over the season, you'll see we've been fielding consistently younger sides than the oppo. We've only had a more experienced side twice.
We've had injuries to some of our more experienced guys throughout the year which hasn't helped; Lloyd, Suckling, Duryea, Hunter, Crozier.
Even disregarding injuries though, our list as a whole is fairly young, ranked 12th for games played. So even if we had a best 22 every week, odds are we're still going to be less experienced a lot of the time.
When you look at the most experienced lists:
Geelong
Collingwood
Hawthorn
West Coast
Port Adelaide
Greater Western Sydney
Richmond
North Melbourne
With the exception of North and Hawks (who have overcooked their lists by trading away youth/draft picks), these are all teams that are competing at the pointy end this year.

Completely disagree with the statement that we are quickly approaching our prime. Still two years off it. The only players who are legit in their primes are Wallis and Crozier (maybe Duryea). Macrae is the closest to hitting his prime/might be entering it now. Hunter similar to Macrae if his season wasn't railroaded.
Bont, Daniel, Smith, Naughton, McLean, Cordy, Dunkley, English, Williams, Lipinski, Richards are all younger than 25. This is a big part of our best 22 each week.

Ok, extend the sample size for the whole season (Lions game not yet on afl tables).

Using the median:
- 3 times Dogs were more experienced (over 10 median difference). GC, Richmond, Essendon
- 5 times we were less experienced. Pies, Saints, Roos, Blues, Port
- 2 times negligible difference (under 10/-10). Gws, Sydney

Season median of those:
WB - 73
Opposition - 75.5

In 2018 I agree that age was a big factor, but it’s not true anymore.

It’s all about how we play, and in his sixth season in the chair, Bevo is absolutely accountable.

He is accountable for who our assistant coaches are, our team selections, player stagnation..... and our game plan.

 

[BEaston]

Ok, extend the sample size for the whole season (Lions game not yet on afl tables).

Using the median:
- 3 times Dogs were more experienced (over 10 median difference). GC, Richmond, Essendon
- 5 times we were less experienced. Pies, Saints, Roos, Blues, Port
- 2 times negligible difference (under 10/-10). Gws, Sydney

Season median of those:
WB - 73
Opposition - 75.5

In 2018 I agree that age was a big factor, but it’s not true anymore.

It’s all about how we play, and in his sixth season in the chair, Bevo is absolutely accountable.

He is accountable for who our assistant coaches are, our team selections, player stagnation..... and our game plan.

Median games is one measure. Mean games another. Age is another. They all add up to tell a story which I don't think fit with your comments. 12th of 18 for games played across the whole list is another measure.

No doubt Bev is accountable for the things you mention. I just don't think they are huge drivers in our performance. Certainly not enough to sack him.

 

[Mattdougie]

I disagree that Bevo should be sacked.

People need to remember that this is a season like no other with the club stationed in Queensland, shortened quarters, no proper training and short breaks between games.

I can understand peoples frustration when either certain players getting selected or not. There maybe legitimate reason for such selections or non-selection. We are not privy to the match committee meetings.

Sorry mate but every team have the same disadvantages and Bevo has made “strange” selections in previous years so I’m not sure your statement has much sought behind it.

 

[immortalmike]

It's times like these I'm comforted by the notion that clubs pay zero attention to what is said here...

Me too.

 

[josh the gent]

Median games is one measure. Mean games another. Age is another. They all add up to tell a story which I don't think fit with your comments. 12th of 18 for games played across the whole list is another measure.

No doubt Bev is accountable for the things you mention. I just don't think they are huge drivers in our performance. Certainly not enough to sack him.

The reason I chose median games is because it removes outliers, making for a more accurate measure of the team’s experience. Ages has less to do with it.

GWS’s first game in 2012 is a perfect example. Mean of 29, median of 1, with 1 being a much more appropriate representation of their experience (also evident in their awful first season).

Per your comments, at least we do agree that Bevo is accountable for the game plan.

Where we differ is that I view our game plan as an enormous driver in our under-performance. You don’t share that view.

In all seriousness, it’s actually been nice debating this with you - after our first couple of posts!

 

[_Mike_]

Blaming Bev for the current situation is easy to do, how many know what's actually happening behind the scenes? The loss of Dalrymple & Corey for starters, promotion of Hansen, after telling them he was leaving if he didnt get a senior gig, and the list management hasnt been good in the last few years. I doubt very much that these were all the decisions of the coach.