Bevo out

[BEaston]

The reason I chose median games is because it removes outliers, making for a more accurate measure of the team’s experience. Ages has less to do with it.

GWS’s first game in 2012 is a perfect example. Mean of 29, median of 1, with 1 being a much more appropriate representation of their experience (also evident in their awful first season).

Per your comments, at least we do agree that Bevo is accountable for the game plan.

Where we differ is that I view our game plan as an enormous driver in our under-performance. You don’t share that view.

In all seriousness, it’s actually been nice debating this with you - after our first couple of posts!

Yeah, I know what median is.
I don't think it's necessarily a more appropriate representation. It's just a representation, same as mean. They both have their place/uses.
By removing outliers it's not describing the total experience of the team which is important. A prime example is our Premiership team, it had a median games played of 63.5 and a mean of 82.1. By using median you're completely discounting the experience of Boyd and Morris which was absolutely massive for us.
Again, they are both just measures. Neither is "better" than the other, but when you look at all the different measures it comes out that we are consistently fielding a less experienced team week to week and we also have a young list, so we don't have much in reserve when injury hits our older players.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Everyone says that Bevo picks Gowers & Gardner but there other people on the match committee as well. So how does everyone know it's Bevo fault they get selected. He is just one vote.

Gia loves "Gardy".

 

[Deadly Darcy]

We need a couple of harder blokes. Lots of “nice” players at our club. I’d be looking to find some little smartarse forward with some campaigner to him to bring some biffo into the forward line and ditto someone to back up Libba in the guts. Stringer and C Smith are sadly missed for balance in our player types and we need those type of players back to move forward in my opinion. Or a B Johnson or Aka type. Someone classy with some magic. Not sure where we find one but that’s top of my list to purchase if we can!

 

[dogwatch]

We need a couple of harder blokes. Lots of “nice” players at our club. I’d be looking to find some little smartarse forward with some campaigner to him to bring some biffo into the forward line and ditto someone to back up Libba in the guts. Stringer and C Smith are sadly missed for balance in our player types and we need those type of players back to move forward in my opinion. Or a B Johnson or Aka type. Someone classy with some magic. Not sure where we find one but that’s top of my list to purchase if we can!

Are we seeing the downstream effect of BMac's desire to see "good young men from good families"? Now there's nothing wrong with those types (eg Macrae, Bont, English, Daniel) but as you point out we need a leavening of some mean mongrel hardarses.

The first player we all think of in that category is Libba but I doubt he'd even be on our list if he hadn't been a F/S pick. IIRC BMac had just arrived when we drafted Clay Smith but BMac wanted nice guy Hayden Crozier instead. (Luckily we ended up with both!) I think even Bevo has a bit of that attitude too. Doesn't seem too tolerant of blokes with attitude unless they're really performing on the field and can't be ignored.

There's a lot more to getting the list balance right than just height, weight and beep tests.

 

[Guido]

Are we seeing the downstream effect of BMac's desire to see "good young men from good families"? Now there's nothing wrong with those types (eg Macrae, Bont, English, Daniel) but as you point out we need a leavening of some mean mongrel hardarses.

The first player we all think of in that category is Libba but I doubt he'd even be on our list if he hadn't been a F/S pick. IIRC BMac had just arrived when we drafted Clay Smith but BMac wanted nice guy Hayden Crozier instead. (Luckily we ended up with both!) I think even Bevo has a bit of that attitude too. Doesn't seem too tolerant of blokes with attitude unless they're really performing on the field and can't be ignored.

There's a lot more to getting the list balance right than just height, weight and beep tests.

I could be wrong on this, but I remember Clay Smith/Crozier as the other way around? McCartney wanting Smith, Dalrymple preferring Crozier because of massive question marks on Smith's kicking? Pretty sure Clay was tough as nails but seen as a solid citizen from a good family.

Biggest miss under the "good young man" policy was Dustin Martin. Very gettable for $500k a year at one stage, think we publicly made it clear we had no interest. But in BMac's defence, most clubs baulked given his off field issues. The lack of interest from *every* other club was possibly the catalyst/kick up the arse he needed to get himself right.

I've got little issue with a policy that prefers good young men, though every player/recruit needs to be judged on their merits. "Good" is a very open term.

Libba may have had his issues with over-indulging, but from a distance seems fundamentally a great guy who anyone would desperately want by their side in battle - absolute pest to the opposition, loved by the playing group, whereas Stringer possibly wasn't as universally respected..

On the extreme side, a Carlisle type can be absolutely toxic. I reckon half his teamates dislike him.

 

[dogwatch]

I could be wrong on this, but I remember Clay Smith/Crozier as the other way around? McCartney wanting Smith, Dalrymple preferring Crozier because of massive question marks on Smith's kicking? Pretty sure Clay was tough as nails but seen as a solid citizen from a good family.

Biggest miss under the "good young man" policy was Dustin Martin. Very gettable for $500k a year at one stage, think we publicly made it clear we had no interest. But in BMac's defence, most clubs baulked given his off field issues. The lack of interest from *every* other club was possibly the catalyst/kick up the arse he needed to get himself right.

I've got little issue with a policy that prefers good young men, though every player/recruit needs to be judged on their merits. "Good" is a very open term.

Libba may have had his issues with over-indulging, but from a distance seems fundamentally a great guy who anyone would desperately want by their side in battle - absolute pest to the opposition, loved by the playing group, whereas Stringer possibly wasn't as universally respected..

On the extreme side, a Carlisle type can be absolutely toxic. I reckon half his teamates dislike him.

You could be right on Clay. I might have them back to front. Not sure.

I wasn't suggesting we go the other way, of course. We don't need to go selecting junkyard dogs all the time. It's just that we shouldn't automatically put a line through them either.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Are we seeing the downstream effect of BMac's desire to see "good young men from good families"? Now there's nothing wrong with those types (eg Macrae, Bont, English, Daniel) but as you point out we need a leavening of some mean mongrel hardarses.

The first player we all think of in that category is Libba but I doubt he'd even be on our list if he hadn't been a F/S pick. IIRC BMac had just arrived when we drafted Clay Smith but BMac wanted nice guy Hayden Crozier instead. (Luckily we ended up with both!) I think even Bevo has a bit of that attitude too. Doesn't seem too tolerant of blokes with attitude unless they're really performing on the field and can't be ignored.

There's a lot more to getting the list balance right than just height, weight and beep tests.

I thought we were going to recruit Crozier, but Macca overrode them when he arrived and went for Clay Smith.

 

[manutd/dogs]

I thought we were going to recruit Crozier, but Macca overrode them when he arrived and went for Clay Smith.

And with such trademark recalcitrance, planted a crucial crop Bevo was able to nurture, one we all came to harvest in October 2016.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Great idea, get rid of our premiership winning coach with sfa replacements available.

AL Clarkson might be available

 

[Mattdougie]

Blaming Bev for the current situation is easy to do, how many know what's actually happening behind the scenes? The loss of Dalrymple & Corey for starters, promotion of Hansen, after telling them he was leaving if he didnt get a senior gig, and the list management hasnt been good in the last few years. I doubt very much that these were all the decisions of the coach.

Bev was directly responsible for Dal leaving and how can you not suggest the senior coach is responsible for picking his staff?

Do you think the club over ruled him in these decisions and told him who his staff are?

I think the problem is Bev is firmly in control of all these decisions and is not concentrating on his actual main role.

 

[_Mike_]

Do you think the club over ruled him in these decisions and told him who his staff are?

I know as a matter of fact that Hansen told them in 2016 that if he didn’t get a promotion as a senior assistant he would leave. Since Hansen was promoted Corey left soon after. That wasn’t Bev’s call

 

[Sharkey66]

I know as a matter of fact that Hansen told them in 2016 that if he didn’t get a promotion as a senior assistant he would leave. Since Hansen was promoted Corey left soon after. That wasn’t Bev’s call

Corey has been at the club until the covid cuts this year hasn't he, sure you have the right guy?

 

[Mattdougie]

I know as a matter of fact that Hansen told them in 2016 that if he didn’t get a promotion as a senior assistant he would leave. Since Hansen was promoted Corey left soon after. That wasn’t Bev’s call

Sorry mate Corey only left the club earlier this year as far as I’m aware

 

[_Mike_]

Corey has been at the club until the covid cuts this year hasn't he, sure you have the right guy?

Thought it was Corey, IIRC we lost an assistant after 2017? Correct me if Im wrong. Something rings about a player that was supposed to be coming from Geelong & it fell through which also impacted an assistant

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I know as a matter of fact that Hansen told them in 2016 that if he didn’t get a promotion as a senior assistant he would leave. Since Hansen was promoted Corey left soon after. That wasn’t Bev’s call

Corey was definitely one of the COVID cuts

 

[_Mike_]

Bev was directly responsible for Dal leaving and how can you not suggest the senior coach is responsible for picking his staff?

Where'd you get that from? Dahl was playing lazy footy after 2016. Im not sure that his decline was anyone's doing but his own. Dont get me wrong, I dont believe in protecting the golden child but also I dont agree with having Bev a sacrificial lamb if the rabbit hole goes deeper than we think.

You know the cliche, the fish rots at the head.

 

[mackem]

Where'd you get that from? Dahl was playing lazy footy after 2016. Im not sure that his decline was anyone's doing but his own. Dont get me wrong, I dont believe in protecting the golden child but also I dont agree with having Bev a sacrificial lamb if the rabbit hole goes deeper than we think.

You know the cliche, the fish rots at the head.

I think he was meaning Dalrymple

 

[Sharkey66]

Thought it was Corey, IIRC we lost an assistant after 2017? Correct me if Im wrong. Something rings about a player that was supposed to be coming from Geelong & it fell through which also impacted an assistant

WAs Cam Mooney you were thinking of, was a part time forwards coach left around that time when BMacc got the heave ho

 

[_Mike_]

WAs Cam Mooney you were thinking of, was a part time forwards coach left around that time when BMacc got the heave ho

Aah now its coming back. Mooney & Macca were trying to get Lonergan to come to the Kennel, however Lonergan stayed with Geelong.

Back to the point, I dont think Bev is solely to blame for the current situation. Im not convinced with Power as our recruiter over Dalrymple, McCartney left in 2017 and went to GWS

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Maple is our general football manger. He's not an assistant coach or our development manager. Seems to be some confusion, just thought I'd point that out.

How dare you come on here spouting facts! How dare ye

 

[Hobdog]

Everyone says that Bevo picks Gowers & Gardner but there other people on the match committee as well. So how does everyone know it's Bevo fault they get selected. He is just one vote.

Queue the folks saying that Bevo is stubborn and doesn’t listen to anyone, albeit without offering up any credible evidence to support the claim.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Who is our match committee? Bevo, Gia, Grant??

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

Name someone who is willing to come and take over from Bevo who will be better than him. Anyone?

Perhaps we need some changes with the people around him, but I can’t understand the calls for Bevo’s head. Just cannot.

Look, I’m not for getting rid of Bevo. I’m frustrated with him, but I’d prefer to surround him with some new faces instead of getting rid of him. Tbh, in the near future, and with the football cap dropping, I’m not expecting anything of substance to happen.

But....If for some reason we did move Beveridge on, the first guy on my hit list to replace him would be Blake Caracella.

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

Queue the folks saying that Bevo is stubborn and doesn’t listen to anyone, albeit without offering up any credible evidence to support the claim.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I think some people, including myself, think he has a few too many yes men around him and hasn’t had someone really question his choices since Montgomery left.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

We could swap Bevo for Cameron, would spark both of them up.