Bevo out

[Dogs_R_Us]

Why doesn’t Brendan McCartney get any credit for the results after the premiership?

When he arrived in 2012 he said it would be 5 years before we would be a contender... guess what happened.

 

[BrisDog]

Why doesn’t Brendan McCartney get any credit for the results after the premiership?

cause he was a campaigner apparently

 

[BEaston]

Why doesn’t Brendan McCartney get any credit for the results after the premiership?

He does get some credit by some for sure. I've seen quite a few posts on here that give him at least some kudos.

 

[SonOfScray]

The club values a metric based on the no. of games played together by the 22 picked. Chris Grant spoke about it at a dinner. When I reflect on his words, it either makes the baffling match selections long game genius, or bat s**t crazy.

I think we'll win the flag from here. But it's bat s**t crazy.

 

[BEaston]

The club values a metric based on the no. of games played together by the 22 picked. Chris Grant spoke about it at a dinner. When I reflect on his words, it either makes the baffling match selections long game genius, or bat sh*t crazy.

I think we'll win the flag from here. But it's bat sh*t crazy.

It's a good metric. There's been quite a few studies done on sports teams that look at team continuity and success. They are definitely linked.

 

[dogwatch]

The club values a metric based on the no. of games played together by the 22 picked. Chris Grant spoke about it at a dinner. When I reflect on his words, it either makes the baffling match selections long game genius, or bat sh*t crazy.

I think we'll win the flag from here. But it's bat sh*t crazy.

It makes sense to use it as a sanity check on a proposed 22 but not as a hard and fast rule.

If you have some outstanding youngsters coming through they may well be good enough despite the inexperience. In fact sometimes it can be better because they don't carry the fear and scars of repeated failure.

We won a flag with Daniel, Cordy and McLean in their second year, Bont and TBoyd in their third year and Dunkley in his first. Essendon won a flag in 1993 with the famous crop of outstanding "Baby Bombers".

I remember McCartney said players need 5 years in the system (ie about 80-100 games) to be physically and mentally mature enough to challenge for a flag. It was a cop-out as we know but as a generalisation it has a germ of truth. Apart from the retired Boyd those players are now 5, 6 or 7 years into their career. Two of them have played 100 games and McLean (90) and Cordy (82) aren't far off it. Dunkley has 75. Meanwhile Williams (same 2015 draft as Dunkley) has played 50+.

 

[bobs head soup]

It's been 4 years since the premiership, so there has been an opportunity to increase the age and experience of the list but we've chosen another path. That might explain the poor win/loss ratio but it doesn't make it a good strategy. You can't argue with results...we lose more often than we win over the past 4 seasons.

How do you know that nobody at the club is questioning Beveridge's performance? You can't possibly know that to be true.

I'd suggest that if nobody at the club is questioning our sustained losing record, then we have serious problems.

Referring to the Bevo era as a period of a 'sustained losing record' just doesn't match the facts.

We've only lost more than won in 1 of Bevo's 6 seasons (2018). His overall winning % is better than any long term coach in our history and we are odds on to make our 4th final series in 6 years.

I've supported the Dogs through periods of sustained losing and this is a long way from that.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

Why doesn’t Brendan McCartney get any credit for the results after the premiership?

I started a whole thread where I got accused of kissing him on the dick. Yes he was a campaigner and when the pressure went on him he ****ed up the man management side of the coaching gig. I totally agree he set bevo up with the team he built on the inside in preparation for 2015/16. Hard man to measure - loved at Geelong, loved then loathed at the Dogs and then seemingly did * all at Melbourne although he was probably burnt out by then....

 

[Mutt]

Cool, thread closed then eh

You don't like anyone disagreeing with your opinion? WTF was the point of your snide comment?

 

[Northernsoul74]

It’s not just age though it’s maturity. Aker was an older player who brought goal sense to the club but no leadership and was a difficult personality. The benefit of Hodge (like him or loath him) was he brought unshakable faith in himself and uncompromising standards to a young Brissie team. If I’m 18-23 I would listen to Bont respectfully; but I’d go to war for Dale Morris as he was just such a bloody warrior and expected the same from everyone arounD him. Boyd; uncompromising trainer and had that same gravitas. I’m just not sure who we have in our list profile that gives us that... Maybe Wallis but he hasn’t got the same runs on the board. So; I’d like to helicopter one in given our current profile.

I hope Matt Boyd comes back at some point. Might have to be post Bevo.

 

[Mutt]

Referring to the Bevo era as a period of a 'sustained losing record' just doesn't match the facts.

We've only lost more than won in 1 of Bevo's 6 seasons (2018). His overall winning % is better than any long term coach in our history and we are odds on to make our 4th final series in 6 years.

I've supported the Dogs through periods of sustained losing and this is a long way from that.

Are you really saying that our last 4 years is better than what we historically produce as a club...therefore we should be happy? Really?

And I referred to our past four years as a sustained period with a losing record...not the whole Bevo era. If you are going to quote me at least be accurate.

 

[Mattdougie]

Are you really saying that our last 4 years is better than what we historically produce as a club...therefore we should be happy? Really?

And I referred to our past four years as a sustained period with a losing record...not the whole Bevo era. If you are going to quote me at least be accurate.

Been saying this since half way through 17.

As a club we are happy to accept levels the best clubs won’t and it’s ingrained in many.

Instead of wanting more success they revert back to 16 and say we were lucky to have that and then dribble every excuse possible to justify it

 

[josh the gent]

You don't like anyone disagreeing with your opinion? WTF was the point of your snide comment?

Thanks Mutt, you’ve given me a copy/paste for my next response to him too.

 

[Jeff 1975]

What about the old chestnut ‘there’s always next year’

 

[Philthy1]

Been saying this since half way through 17.

As a club we are happy to accept levels the best clubs won’t and it’s ingrained in many.

Instead of wanting more success they revert back to 16 and say we were lucky to have that and then dribble every excuse possible to justify it

Martin Flanagan called that out in his book about 2016 and he doesn’t support us. He in fact Named some of those people within the club in his book in a roundabout kind of way. Some of those people have been moved on tho.

 

[Mattdougie]

You don't like anyone disagreeing with your opinion? WTF was the point of your snide comment?

One of the group that think they are never wrong. Surprised he didn’t call you right wing

 

[BEaston]

You don't like anyone disagreeing with your opinion? WTF was the point of your snide comment?

Huh. You just said we agreed. But in any case, I don't mind when people disagree. Better that than an echo chamber.

The point is that in a sack Bev thread, "jury's out" doesn't quite fit.

 

[Mattdougie]

Martin Flanagan called that out in his book about 2016 and he doesn’t support us. He in fact some of those people within the club in his book in a roundabout kind of way. Some of those people have been moved on tho.

We have far too many “followers” that never expected 16 so are more than happy to live on that now.

 

[Mutt]

Huh. You just said we agreed. But in any case, I don't mind when people disagree. Better that than an echo chamber.

The point is that in a sack Bev thread, "jury's out" doesn't quite fit.

You posted in the sack Bevo thread...does that mean that you agree with the premise? Seriously...stop trying to be clever and stick to the subject matter.

 

[perro_loco]

Lol just proves my point

I agree with you MD. Great clubs just DO NOT ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY, and mediocrity can be an organisational cultural trait. Teams in Soccer/Football do not accept it in any way. look at the Real Madrid, Barca, Boca Juniors, Bayern. even when they win a championship and the style of play is not up to scratch they sack the coach. we should adopt that type of mentality. I know I am a bit off the mark, but emulating what the best do, is the only way to succeed. GO DOGS AND STEP ON MEDIOCRITY!!!

 

[BEaston]

You posted in the sack Bevo thread...does that mean that you agree with the premise? Seriously...stop trying to be clever and stick to the subject matter.

Haha sir yes sir

 

[BEaston]

So back on topic then, can we get some decent chat or analysis going on Bevo's game plan failures?

One criticism that I've read is that he's been unable to change or adapt since 2016.
We've actually completely morphed from a territory based game, focused on winning clearances, locking the ball in the fwd half and scoring through weight of numbers to a game based around turnovers in our back half and using slick ball movement to try score on the rebound. The game plan is completely different, so yeah forget that one.

Another criticism is not playing two rucks. When our options are Trengove and Sweet, there's not many options there. Despite that, English has actually played pretty well as the sole ruck for a decent chunk of this season. The game on the weekend was an example of that.

Sticking with the jury's out theme... if we all agree that the list was rebuilt as the club has stated and it's too early to tell if that strategy was a good one. Isn't that actually on the list management strategy and nothing to do with Bevo?

So yeah, let's hear it guys. Start a discussion that runs a bit deeper than simply he's shite and not up to it. Try give your argument at least some sort of credibility

 

[bresker]

So yeah, let's hear it guys. Start a discussion that runs a bit deeper than simply he's sh*te and not up to it. Try give your argument at least some sort of credibility

That's a really unfair summation of this thread, and an insult to our intelligence. Well not my intelligence, but there are some deep footy thinkers on this board.

If your summation was fair Bev wouldn't have such a poor win/loss ratio. We're really not travelling well at all.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

Been saying this since half way through 17.

As a club we are happy to accept levels the best clubs won’t and it’s ingrained in many.

Instead of wanting more success they revert back to 16 and say we were lucky to have that and then dribble every excuse possible to justify it

Richmond nearly sacked Hardwick and he turned it around, Bucks was looking ugly and went within a kick. I think if we stay the course we are a huge chance in a couple of years. It’s not all coach just look at Hawthorn at the moment.

 

[DelRe]

I started a whole thread where I got accused of kissing him on the dick. Yes he was a campaigner and when the pressure went on him he f’ed up the man management side of the coaching gig. I totally agree he set bevo up with the team he built on the inside in preparation for 2015/16. Hard man to measure - loved at Geelong, loved then loathed at the Dogs and then seemingly did fu** all at Melbourne although he was probably burnt out by then....

Sorry my post was being sarcastic about how there was a burst of energy giving him credit for his role in the flag but not the results subsequent. My personal view but his role in either is grossly overstated, but also don’t want to restart the debate.