Bevo vs Brad

[Tas]

What Tas meant to say:

Bevo, greatest coach in history.

Better?

I don't need to pander to insecure opposition supporters on the North forum. I don't mind if someone disagrees with my opinion and wants to have a conversation about it and throw in some counters to points I made. I don't bite... usually.

 

[archereleven]

I don't need to pander to insecure opposition supporters on the North forum. I don't mind if someone disagrees with my opinion and wants to have a conversation about it and throw in some counters to points I made. I don't bite... usually.

Its the quickest way to get rid of knobs that have nothing better to do than trawl other teams boards... This season has done my head in re. Western. They are making me physically ill when i hear about them in the media.

 

[Errol Street]

You can typically turn around a midfield and running group in a shorter period of time as they are typically far more plentiful

Mmmnn not sure if I agree with this part maybe other clubs can produce a good midfield but we haven't had a premiership quality midfield in a long time. Finishing mid ladder most years doesn't help.

 

[Tas]

Mmmnn not sure if I agree with this part maybe other clubs can produce a good midfield but we haven't had a premiership quality midfield in a long time. Finishing mid ladder most years doesn't help.

I am just saying that a big chunk of the players taken in the draft will be mids/flankers, it is just the way it is, there will be plenty of options to choose from.

We haven't had a premiership quality midfield for a long time, but I am not sure it is a lack of access to talent, however, we weren't helped by the compromised drafts.

Playing lists are an evolution, but you still rely heavily on what you already got. Take for example the Dogs, a good example given the thread, they picked up Picken in 2008 as a rookie, Libba and Wallis taken as father son picks in 2010, picked up Smith round 1 in 2011 (pick 17, been mostly injured), picked up Hunter as a father son in 2012 and also got Macrae pick 6 the same year, got Bontempelli with pick 4 in 2013, Daniel as a third round pick in 2014 and Dunkley as a father son last year.

They didn't make the decision in 2008 or 2010 to go on a 5 year midfield recruitment binge, they just recruited players that complimented their list based on what picks they had and what was best available.

The same time period 2008-2015 we drafted
2008: Ziebell 1/9
2009: Cunnington 1/5, MacMillan 3/37
2010: Atley 1/17
2011: McKenzie 1/18
2012: Garner 1/15, Jacobs 2/37
2013: McDonald 1/8, Dumont 2/30
2014: no mids/flankers of note
2015: Clarke 2/31, Hibberd 2/33

First rounders: Cunnington (5), McDonald (8), Ziebell (9), Garner(15), Atley(17), McKenzie(18)
Second Rounders: Dumont (30), Clarke (31), Hibberd (33), Jacobs (37)
Third Rounders: MacMillan (37)

Our #1 problem is development, not access. Cunners is probably our most complete midfielder, but is specialised in terms of an inside/extractor.

McDonald is given do nothing defensive roles, not being developed as the type of mid he was as a junior.

Ziebell lacks impact, he should be much better than he is. How has nobody not addressed his hacking of the ball out of the middle? When he runs and bursts through the middle and looks to hit short to medium range targets he is a significantly better player.

Garner is mostly injured at this point in time.

Atley can't find the ball, plays too timid, his spurts of form where he looks good he plays aggressive.

McKenzie can't find the ball.

Dumont looks promising, needs experience.

Clarke looks promising.

Hibberd too early to observe anything meaningful.

Jacobs became an invaluable tagger

MacMillan shown a lot of promise this year.

I just feel our development/coaching hasn't been good enough and I think if we shake things up a bit, we could still turn a number of these players into good players, or much better players than they currently are.

If we can poach say David Swallow in 2017 and another top tier midfielder this year the entire outlook could change radically in the space of 1 or 2 years. We just haven't had this 25 and under group step up and it doesn't seem that the club is driving the group to step up.

Not sure if Brad is the man or not to get that out of the group, despite that... if it weren't for injuries I would have been supremely confident of our midfield group being good enough to beat anyone else going around. We wouldn't need a quantum leap to turn the midfield around.

Sadly, we won't get that invigoration that comes from changing coach, but I hope we overhaul our development and have a look at a better midfield assistant coach. We need a much improved system of ball movement, we need to as a club empower our players to be better players and I am not sure we are doing that atm.

 

[TwentyNine]

Bevo is still in the honeymoon period, he is playing a lot of players clubs haven't done much homework on, it will get harder for them next year, clubs will do the homework on the strengths and weaknesses, see what other clubs do that work, what doesn't work.

I don't think they have exceptional talent, they just work hard as a team, play aggressively. It is a good brand of footy to watch but not sure it is the best style in terms of consistency. I don't particularly rate Geelong, Swans or GWS (this year), I think Dogs can match these teams this year, but not optimistic as a long-term strategy. They have a very unconventional side, no real forward targets of note, no real ruckman of note, no real defenders of note.. they rely on a swarm type of mentality and exposing traditional structured sides on the rebound.

I think it is only a matter of time until a club devises a strategy to expose it, but I enjoy watching them play for the mean time, as I did Port previous years, they aren't as entertaining any longer, can't sustain that type of football.

Yep, agree a lot.

 

[Joey7]

Ill summarise very quickly

Bevo drops Stringer, Minson and any player who is lacking form and effort within his expectations and standards.

Brad - drops nooone of significance and accepts mediocrity in terms of standards and professional approach of players.

 

[Tas]

Ill summarise very quickly

Bevo drops Stringer, Minson and any player who is lacking form and effort within his expectations and standards.

Brad - drops nooone of significance and accepts mediocrity in terms of standards and professional approach of players.

He dropped Daw, Dumont and Clarke a lot. :stern look

 

[Roozee]

Bevo is still in the honeymoon period, he is playing a lot of players clubs haven't done much homework on, it will get harder for them next year, clubs will do the homework on the strengths and weaknesses, see what other clubs do that work, what doesn't work.

I don't think they have exceptional talent, they just work hard as a team, play aggressively. It is a good brand of footy to watch but not sure it is the best style in terms of consistency. I don't particularly rate Geelong, Swans or GWS (this year), I think Dogs can match these teams this year, but not optimistic as a long-term strategy. They have a very unconventional side, no real forward targets of note, no real ruckman of note, no real defenders of note.. they rely on a swarm type of mentality and exposing traditional structured sides on the rebound.

I think it is only a matter of time until a club devises a strategy to expose it, but I enjoy watching them play for the mean time, as I did Port previous years, they aren't as entertaining any longer, can't sustain that type of football.

 

[Arthur Cloke]

Ill summarise very quickly

Bevo drops Stringer, Minson and any player who is lacking form and effort within his expectations and standards.

Brad - drops nooone of significance and accepts mediocrity in terms of standards and professional approach of players.

Post of the year.

 

[giantroo]

This is a good read.


Luke Beveridge is a new-age coach who gets the best out of his team in his own way

MICHAEL WARNER, Herald Sun

September 23, 2016 7:00pm

LUKE Beveridge was packing his bags for a family holiday in California when the call came through.

It was October 2014 and Beveridge’s old teammate Luke Darcy was on the line.

The Western Bulldogs were in full blown crisis after the sudden exit of coach Brendan McCartney and skipper Ryan Griffen, and under-fire president Peter Gordon had convinced Darcy to join the selection panel charged with finding his replacement.

The former Bulldogs ruckman and media personality had rejected three Gordon approaches, but relented, on the condition Beveridge’s name be added to the list of candidates.

“I rang Bevo and said: ‘Hey mate, I’m thinking about jumping on this panel for the Bulldogs and if I do the reason I want to do it is because I’d have you right at the top of the list,” Darcy recalled this week.

“I’m not saying that’s going to have any influence over the panel, but maybe it will, what do you think?

“And this is what we love about him as well, because he took an enormous amount of convincing to even do the interview because he had committed to St Kilda as director of coaching.

“He really wrestled with the fact that he should even be looking at it.”

Darcy’s insistence that Beveridge be given a chance to apply held up the process for almost three weeks.

He jetted out to the US with his wife Dana and two teenage sons to contemplate.

Not everyone was convinced Beveridge was worth waiting for, but the Dogs began pre-season training without a captain or a coach.

"... he took an enormous amount of convincing to even do the interview because he had committed to St Kilda as director of coaching."

“When McCartney left I really wanted Luke Darcy to be on the panel,” Gordon explained this week.

“I had to ask him several times and when he eventually agreed to do it, almost the only thing he was doing that was outside the square when it came to going through all the main candidates was being fairly insistent that we should talk to Luke Beveridge.

“I remember him being quite insistent about that. I guess he just had an intuition.”

BEVERIDGE cut his US trip short by four days and entered the interview process where Adelaide defender Nathan Bassett emerged as his most serious threat.

Bulldogs football director Chris Grant, AFL Coaches Association president John Worsfold, Dogs chief executive Simon Garlick, football manager Graham Lowe and Darcy made up the panel.

Garlick, who departed soon after, was a major supporter and worked with St Kilda chief executive Matt Finnis to secure his release from the Saints.

The panel’s recommendations were delivered to Gordon and fellow board member Chris Nolan in mid November.

The Herald Sun has been told their endorsement of Beveridge was not unanimous, with one of the five preferring another applicant, a claim disputed by one of the five on the panel.

Gordon says: “The panel also recommended that I needed to be happy with him, so we arranged that he would come to my place and we would spend a few hours together, and so I guess I got that privilege of offering him the job at the end of that process.

“I have great respect for all the coaches that I have had in the period that I’ve been president but I had a more natural rapport with him than anyone else.

“I have great respect for all the coaches that I have had in the period that I’ve been president but I had a more natural rapport with him than anyone else."

Dogs president Peter Gordon on Luke Beveridge

“We spent several hours together and no more than an hour into it I was convinced about the whole thing.

“I was so enjoying talking to him that we were in a discussion and about things he might do in the pre-season and at a given point he said: ‘Does this mean I’ve got the job? and I said, ‘Oh sorry, yeah!”

BEVERIDGE’S rise began in the VAFA where he coached the St Bede’s Mentone Tigers to the C, B and A Grade premierships in consecutive seasons from 2006-08.

In their first flag, against Ajax, they came from 48 points down in the third quarter to win by a point.

Before joining Collingwood in 2009 as a player development manager, Beveridge was a career public servant working in a number of government departments.

He was a senior manager for the financial intelligence agency, Austrac, during the St Bede’s era, leading specialist teams in the fight against criminal money laundering.

It’s not the usual path for an AFL coach but helped forge his perspective and philosophies.

“Luke is all about the team, it’s not about him,” former Austrac colleague Karen Nitschke said this week.

“He doesn’t like the limelight. He was all about respect, listening to everyone about what they could bring and encouraging people to get the job done.

“So it doesn’t surprise me to see the success that he is getting now.

“He’s honest and respectful and is genuinely interested in you as a person, regardless of your background or status. It’s the honesty and integrity that stands out for me. He’s always got time for you.”

EMBRACING his emotions is a secret to Beveridge’s success.

"“He doesn’t like the limelight. He was all about respect, listening to everyone about what they could bring and encouraging people to get the job done."

The results of his Emotional Intelligence Test conducted for the Dogs by global firm DDI were “off the charts”.

“They were saying we’ve never seen a result like this and that was really interesting for me,” Darcy says.

It can also land him in trouble.

The curiously resolved Michael Talia affair, his anger at the Gold Coast Suns’ poaching of his fitness boss Justin Cordy and a run in with journalist Damien Barrett at last year’s Brownlow are examples.

“He’s a man of integrity but sometimes that can be a distraction,” a club insider said.

“He’s highly principled, he calls things out and wears his heart on his sleeve.

“But the players and staff just love him and there’s a real sense of respect. He’s a very good person and a new-age coach.”

His trademark is a warm arm around the shoulder and on rare days off he reads, surfs and skateboards.

Gordon says another strong Beveridge trait is his humour.

“He has an amazing ability to take the heat out of a situation with a joke,” the president says.

“Even in the most difficult of circumstances he can just ease the tension.”

THE first sign Beveridge was the right man to lead the Dogs back from the brink came during his debut pre-game address against Collingwood in last year’s NAB Challenge.

“He started the pre-match address that night by saying: ‘Now tonight guys, you all need to be prepared because there’s going to be an ambush’,” Gordon says.

“Everyone started leaning forward, wondering ‘what are we in for?’

“And he says: ‘And it’s us who will be doing the ambushing. Get ready for a style of play that Collingwood are not expecting, have not seen and won’t be able to cope with’.

“Three or four players have told me about it, and it was as a moment were it just made them feel differently about the game.

“We were 10 goals up at half time”.

Garlick says he made an immediate impact.

“He just has this capability of building rapport and trust,” Garlick says.

“He didn’t try to come in and be too serious straight away but at the same time you could see the guys had a strong respect for him.

“He just gets the balance right. He’s a massive competitor and ruthless in doing everything he can to get the right result, but empathetic, genuine and caring in a relationship sense.”

DARCY agrees Beveridge was destined to coach.

“He’s one of the best people I’ve ever met in footy,” he says.

“He didn’t try to come in and be too serious straight away but at the same time you could see the guys had a strong respect for him."

- Simon Garlick on Luke Beveridge

“I only ever played the three years with him but he had an immediate impact on me as a 17 and 18-year-old. He was one of the boys but I can remember three or four times in my first year where he grabbed me and pulled me aside and said: ‘Pull your head in. This is not on’. But there were other times where he would put his arm around you and say: ‘Hey, mate. I see something in you’.

“That’s pretty unique, particularly for someone who wasn’t the best player in the side. He was always fighting hard to get a game, really, but he always had that presence.

“The players buy into what he wants them to do, week in, week out.

“Footy clubs are unique because if the senior coach is not quite at the top of his game the whole place falls apart.

“I can’t imagine another role in business where one person is the heart beat and the pulse of the whole organisation.

“You can just tell that everyone who comes into contact with him from the players, to the board to the executive — they have great belief when they are around him.

“I’m not surprised by how well he is coaching, but it’s pretty special to watch it unfold.

“The environment is brilliant because he buys into the individuals, he buys into their stories — and then he gives really clear guidelines about what the standards are for the team.

“It doesn’t matter who you are, if you don’t live those standards, you don’t play.

“The old days of coaches who would strafe you out of frustration and see who was able to withstand that and hope you play well (are over).

“The next generation of coaches like Bevo, Leon Cameron and Adam Simpson, they have a better understanding of what players need to thrive.”

 

[DarwinRoo]

He skateboards? Brad > Bevo.

 

[Mav]

He skateboards? Brad > Bevo.

Skate or Rotate, dude!

 

[Popeye10]

Ill summarise very quickly

Bevo drops Stringer, Minson and any player who is lacking form and effort within his expectations and standards.

Brad - drops nooone of significance and accepts mediocrity in terms of standards and professional approach of players.

Excalty that's the difference close thread.

 

[Arthur Cloke]

I remember bumping into Beaver (that's his nickname at the local ice-skating ring in Chiltern) many years ago. No razzle & dazzle with him. Just called it as he seen it. Loves his cricket too. Not a bad medium pacer although I did confront him over a slightly bent elbow. We exchanged words, I spat near his feet, he soon got it.

 

[Zondor]

Bevo has already got one over Scotts. :stern look

 

[Only Forwards]

Bevo has already got one over Scotts. :stern look

Categorically now.

Results are undeniable.

 

[True North]

One hit wonder. Let's see him do it 2 years in a row!

Bard has won 4 FINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Elite Master]

To Scotts credit he had a hell of a lot less to work with, and he got to 2 prelims from outside the 8 2 years in a row with no round 23 bye, I know the Dogs work extremely hard but they are also extremely talented on most lines with quite a few more high end draft picks.

 

[Zondor]

To Scotts credit he had a hell of a lot less to work with, and he got to 2 prelims from outside the 8 2 years in a row with no round 23 bye, I know the Dogs work extremely hard but they are also extremely talented on most lines with quite a few more high end draft picks.

There is only one team that has won a final from outside the eight and that ain't us. :stern look

 

[Only Forwards]

To Scotts credit he had a hell of a lot less to work with, and he got to 2 prelims from outside the 8 2 years in a row with no round 23 bye, I know the Dogs work extremely hard but they are also extremely talented on most lines with quite a few more high end draft picks.

His high draft picks and concession f/s are all in a bit of a group. Ours are spread thin and we had a clear gap in ages

 

[hilly]

That Dahlhaus (?) goal in the 3rd...when was the last time you saw our players go in like that?

 

[Mav]

That Dahlhaus (?) goal in the 3rd...when was the last time you saw our players go in like that?

99

 

[muttley45]

My theory, Bevvo identified that AFL HQ were not happy with the congested, contested slog that was becoming the norm, (and incidentally, which we were pretty adept at), and utilised his resources to exploit the leniency given by the whistle blowers to speed up the game and make it a better spectacle, so, credit to him for that, but Clarko called him out on it after losing his semi final, and would be working on a counter measure right now, failing that, if you cant beat em, join em, (but must have a list with the required skill set to do so successfully)

 

[hotham]

Bevo has it and Brad doesn't.

 

[Forever North]

Bevo makes his players believe they're all Messi's and coaches them to think they are Barcelona. Brad is happy to coach a bunch of Stoke City grafters.......