Beyond the GF – Why the MCG Contract doesn’t pass the Stink Test

[Papa G]

I think I said I understand why some feel a need to maintain the status quo, & its not just me that a different view on our national competition some 30 years on.
As a Victorian taxpayer I understand why the 'behind closed door' sleazy deal was done & equity of the national comp was never a consideration.

Sporting Capital Moite.

 

[Bostonian]

Mmm. So you are claiming the EPL is a completely different League to the old First Division? Cool. The AFL started in 1990.

It's titles are included with all the other top tier winners.

List of English football champions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[doppleganger]

Studies have show that when a crowd is vocal, it impacts the way referees call a game.

An entire list of crap that was irrelevant to my question.

Would any of your elite sportsmen identify a home game when the "home" team didn't enjoy 95% of crowd support?

Everyone knows home advantage exists, and in American sports the teams playing at home earned it and are often better - unlike AFL where non-Melbourne teams are overrepresented in top4 due to favourable H&A fixtures.

And in America, all of the things that make home advantage real become even more pronounced in finals, particularly the support of the home crowd, who often take things to another level come playoff time....this doesn't happen in the AFL GF.

And the AFL GF stats show that unlike American sports where HA is more pronounced than regular season, that GF results are equitable unlike the regular season.

 

[doppleganger]

To try to answer some of the differences between playing on the road and playing at home, let's analyze the statistics:

• NBA FT shooting — no difference between home and away FT% (actually, according to our numbers below, there is a small difference, but it amounts to only a 0.05 point per game advantage)
• Shootouts in NHL — no difference between home and away success rate
• Travel fatigue — there is no real difference in winning percentage based on distance traveled

Your own supposed stats source rubbished your big claim!!

AFL GF crowd ain't like a regular home crowd.
The week preparation ain't like a regular week.
The key factors that give the advantage aren't there come GF day!!

 

[Papa G]

• NBA FT shooting — no difference between home and away FT% (actually, according to our numbers below, there is a small difference, but it amounts to only a 0.05 point per game advantage)
• Shootouts in NHL — no difference between home and away success rate
• Travel fatigue — there is no real difference in winning percentage based on distance traveled

Your own supposed stats source rubbished your big claim!!

AFL GF crowd ain't like a regular home crowd.
The week preparation ain't like a regular week.
The key factors that give the advantage aren't there come GF day!!

Does Home Field Advantage Matter in Sports Betting?

Sports fans know home-field advantage can be a big deal in the outcome of a game. But does it mean as much for sports betting odds? Learn how here.

www.playtenn.com

.....In the NBA, the home-court advantage is even more pronounced. Home teams win more than 70% of the time. Plus, the best teams in the league take the overwhelming majority of their losses on the road.....

Lol. What a moron.

 

[doppleganger]

Does Home Field Advantage Matter in Sports Betting?

Sports fans know home-field advantage can be a big deal in the outcome of a game. But does it mean as much for sports betting odds? Learn how here.

www.playtenn.com

.....In the NBA, the home-court advantage is even more pronounced. Home teams win more than 70% of the time. Plus, the best teams in the league take the overwhelming majority of their losses on the road.....

Lol. What a moron.

Yeah, that is my point.

It is the crowd that is the biggest factor "ground familiarity and conditions" it is an indoor stadium with exactly the same dimensions.

You reckon an American would expect anything less that 95% crowd support at a home game?

What are MCG home game W % in regular season? Compare that to GF W %....it will fall away, as the home advantage is reduced.

 

[Papa G]

MCG Grand Final with a Vic Tennant club would have at least 75% of the crowd against a non Vic Club.

 

[kranky al]

• NBA FT shooting — no difference between home and away FT% (actually, according to our numbers below, there is a small difference, but it amounts to only a 0.05 point per game advantage)
• Shootouts in NHL — no difference between home and away success rate
• Travel fatigue — there is no real difference in winning percentage based on distance traveled

Your own supposed stats source rubbished your big claim!!

AFL GF crowd ain't like a regular home crowd.
The week preparation ain't like a regular week.
The key factors that give the advantage aren't there come GF day!!

Well except for playing at your home ground as it says

Take a full forwards accuracy on his home ground vs away

Etc etc etc

 

[doppleganger]

Well except for playing at your home ground as it says

Take a full forwards accuracy on his home ground vs away

Etc etc etc

Isn't that the NBA free throw example from your stats, a negligible difference.

The great T.Lockett, the best FF and one of the most accurate. If we take accuracy being goals as a proportion of goals and behinds, would expect him to be much higher at home compared to away.

The great Plugger ran at 68% accuracy at Moorabbin and 70% at SCG.

But his "away" accuracy was 71%.

Just like NBA free throws, kicking for goal not changed at grounds....another one of your GF myths busted it seems.

Keep your stats coming!!

 

[doppleganger]

MCG Grand Final with a Vic Tennant club would have at least 75% of the crowd against a non Vic Club.

Ask an American who the "home" team was based on the crowd.

 

[bh90210fan]

Ask an American who the "home" team was based on the crowd.

How about the 3 most recent grand finals played on the mcg? Dig them up and ask then. Old South Melbourne have a decent following in Melbourne strangely enough.

look, I know it’s hard to accept seeing as how Collingwood have gagged it each time you’ve come up against a non Victorian side in the big dance, but hot tip for you my man - you were advantaged in each one of them.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

People outside Victoria: apparently constantly astonished that decisions are made - by a commision which is chaired by a dude from WA and features several non victorians - and yet which favour the largest part of the leagues clubs, members, recruitsm ,audiences and grassroots.

I think we all know you don't ascend to any of these positions unless you are going to follow how the Vics want it done. They are all hand picked to follow and do things a certain way.

 

[Papa G]

I think we all know you don't ascend to any of these positions unless you are going to follow how the Vics want it done. They are all hand picked to follow and do things a certain way.

Non Vics on the AFL Commission are like the Stepford Wives.

 

[doppleganger]

I think we all know you don't ascend to any of these positions unless you are going to follow how the Vics want it done. They are all hand picked to follow and do things a certain way.

Yep, execs must ensure the majority of fans and clubs are looked after, and expansion into untapped growth markets is prioritised.

If you are deviating from those two key outcomes you shouldn't be an exec.

 

[Rob]

I don't like to disagree with you on any matter, but the ground is called the Melbourne Cricket Ground and they hold all the aces.
There isn't enough money in our kitty to buy prime estate in Melbourne and build a 100,000 seat stadium and continue funding clubs.

They only hold all the aces because the AFL allows them to. The MCG exists because of football, despite the name. Without it they are pretty much nothing.

The league had every opportunity to squeeze a far better deal out of them by using other states as leverage, yet refused to. Even a public declaration when Perth Stadium was in the works that if it was able to be built to, say, 75k+ capacity then they would be a chance of hosting a grand final would have had the MCC sweating bullets.

 

[Rob]

It's titles are included with all the other top tier winners.

List of English football champions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Because they're undisputed national champions irrespective of what the league was.

VFL winners are not, under any definition, national champions. You might be able to argue late 80's VFL winners are. But prior to that they were champions of Victoria, nothing more.

 

[Bostonian]

Because they're undisputed national champions irrespective of what the league was.

VFL winners are not, under any definition, national champions. You might be able to argue late 80's VFL winners are. But prior to that they were champions of Victoria, nothing more.

The AFL is just a continuation of the same league. Just because you add a blow ins it's still the same league. The league never stopped operating to restart again.

No different to the VFA changing its name to the VFL. It's still the same league as is its history.

 

[Rob]

The AFL is just a continuation of the same league. Just because you add a blow ins it's still the same league. The league never stopped operating to restart again.

No different to the VFA changing its name to the VFL. It's still the same league as is its history.

Which is true, but it doesn't make VFL champion teams any better. They were not champions of Australia like AFL champions are.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Yep, execs must ensure the majority of fans and clubs are looked after, and expansion into untapped growth markets is prioritised.

If you are deviating from those two key outcomes you shouldn't be an exec.

All depends what the mandate is. None of us know what that is, we can guess but we don't really know. Whatever it is I don't think it has changed much since 1987 and hence why no one ever would be allowed to take on the roll of running the game unless they follow a format from 40 years ago. You want the roll then you do it this way.
The comp is thriving and has truck loads of money so it's probably going well. Sort of don't fix what aint broke kind of thing. There is heaps they could do different that would not provide them any less income but they don't even look at it. (Fixture mainly)

 

[Aussie in exile]

that there is P&R doesnt mean the EPL didnt breakway from the control and operation of the Football League and form a new operation. This actually happened as per the Premier Leagues own website. The tier system remains only though the intervention of the FA. The Football League plays no part in the control or operation of the EPL.

3 teams from the football league (Championship) are promoted at the end of every season to the EPL
3 teams from the EPL are relegated to the football league (Championship)

 

[Aussie in exile]

They only hold all the aces because the AFL allows them to. The MCG exists because of football, despite the name. Without it they are pretty much nothing.

The league had every opportunity to squeeze a far better deal out of them by using other states as leverage, yet refused to. Even a public declaration when Perth Stadium was in the works that if it was able to be built to, say, 75k+ capacity then they would be a chance of hosting a grand final would have had the MCC sweating bullets.

There must be a reason why the AFL allows to? but i don't want it is.

 

[Rob]

There must be a reason why the AFL allows to? but i don't want it is.

It's a good question. I suspect it's got a lot to do with the boys club relationship between the AFL and MCC, as well as the fear in the corridors of AFL house of local journos getting wind of the possibility of the MCG losing the grand final, even if 20 years into the future.

It's why the Victorian media haven't asked the question, and the AFL couldn't give a s**t what the media outside Victoria ask. And that's if any of them were competent enough to ask in the first place.

 

[Papa G]

It's a good question. I suspect it's got a lot to do with the boys club relationship between the AFL and MCC, as well as the fear in the corridors of AFL house of local journos getting wind of the possibility of the MCG losing the grand final, even if 20 years into the future.

It's why the Victorian media haven't asked the question, and the AFL couldn't give a sh*t what the media outside Victoria ask. And that's if any of them were competent enough to ask in the first place.

Dude its a circle jerk between the AFL, Vic Govt/MCC. The 2001 - 2006 era really shook them up. The ideal of a "National League"l was rejected. The push back to the "Heartland" facilitated by the corrupt Demetriou, Maguire et al became political. The fact North Melbourne still exist is testament to that. The "Foioty Industry" is part of the self described Sporting Capital Government policy. When you pay the bills, albeit at a non commercial rate, corruption will favour the locals.

 

[doppleganger]

There must be a reason why the AFL allows to? but i don't want it is.

The MCG hosts ~ 45 H&A games each year, including the overwhelming majority of the "BLOCKBUSTER" games that they heavily publicise.

Where are they going to play these games if not at the G??

Do the AFL want the Great Southern Stand upgraded to ensure that AFL and club members have up to date facilities for the 45 AFL games per year at the G??

MCC happy to take on the $1b debt to upgrade, in return they want GFs at the G.

It works for the overwhelming majority of AFL stakeholders, except for a couple of the new franchises from out West.

 

[doppleganger]

All depends what the mandate is. None of us know what that is, we can guess but we don't really know. Whatever it is I don't think it has changed much since 1987 and hence why no one ever would be allowed to take on the roll of running the game unless they follow a format from 40 years ago. You want the roll then you do it this way.
The comp is thriving and has truck loads of money so it's probably going well. Sort of don't fix what aint broke kind of thing. There is heaps they could do different that would not provide them any less income but they don't even look at it. (Fixture mainly)

Yep, long term grow the game in new markets to secure the future.

There is heaps they could do differently, but lowest on the list is do anything more to fix Australian geography and the fact that the two WA teams are from one of the most isolated cities in the world.

And yes, first thing to fix with the fixture would be having all Melbourne teams get to pick where they play all their home games...and bin any "stadium" deal bullshit.

Until that is fixed, a bit rich for the non-Melbourne clubs to then bitch about a stadium deal that doesn't suit them.